Time to say goodbye

willysr · 02-18-2014, 08:09 AM

I'm not sure if OP has tasted sbopkg + sqg, but i find it very easy and since kdenlive is already available on SBo, installing it would be very easy thing to do

Install sbopkg
Copy sqg to /usr/bin and edit the repo version to 14.1
Run sbopkg -r
Run sqg -a
Run sbopkg install kdenlive

That's it

I'm sure it would take less than 3 hours

55020 · 02-18-2014, 08:12 AM

vdemuth does have a valid point, but I think it's an unfortunate time to be leaving desktop Slackware -- there's a new generation of tools coming along that are making it easier than ever to extend and maintain Slackware systems -- sbopkg is better than ever, there's aaditya's new asbt, and slackpkg+ makes it really easy to use third party binary repositories (we always mention trust issues with that, but it's no worse than using Ubuntu PPAs).

I'm working on a new tool that'll build you kdenlive or whatever, plus all deps, with no manual intervention. It'll be a few weeks before it's ready, but I ran it just now and it built kdenlive and five deps in seven minutes flat (I already had most deps). Here's a sneak preview:

Code:

morticia# sh ./sboggit kdenlive  
Removing /tmp/SBo/* ...
Initialising git ...
Already on '14.1'
HEAD is now at 263cf1a Public www update: Sun Feb 16 07:49:38 UTC 2014
Finished initialising git.

===============================================================================
! multimedia/kdenlive                                                12:51:47 !
===============================================================================

Dependencies of multimedia/kdenlive:
  audio/amrnb
  multimedia/dvdauthor
  multimedia/dvgrab
  audio/faac
  audio/faad2
  libraries/gsm
  libraries/lame
  multimedia/mlt
  desktop/recordmydesktop
  multimedia/schroedinger
  multimedia/x264
  multimedia/xvidcore
audio/amrnb is up-to-date.
Starting build of multimedia/dvdauthor (add new pkg) --------------------------
Checking source files ...
Running dvdauthor.SlackBuild ...
:-) multimedia/dvdauthor BUILD OK (-:
Dependencies of multimedia/dvgrab:
  libraries/libavc1394
  libraries/libdv
  libraries/libiec61883
Starting build of libraries/libavc1394 (add new pkg) --------------------------
Checking source files ...
Running libavc1394.SlackBuild ...
:-) libraries/libavc1394 BUILD OK (-:
Starting build of libraries/libdv (add new pkg) -------------------------------
Checking source files ...
Running libdv.SlackBuild ...
:-) libraries/libdv BUILD OK (-:
libraries/libiec61883 is up-to-date.
Starting build of multimedia/dvgrab (add new pkg) -----------------------------
Installing dependencies ...
libavc1394-0.5.4-x86_64-1_SBo: GNU/Linux 1394 AV/C Library               [180K]
libdv-1.0.0-x86_64-1_SBo: DV Video codec                                 [520K]
libiec61883-1.2.0-x86_64-2_SBo: implementation of IEC 61883, part 1      [190K]
Checking source files ...
Running dvgrab.SlackBuild ...
:-) multimedia/dvgrab BUILD OK (-:
Uninstalling dependencies ...
Dependencies of audio/faac:
  libraries/libmp4v2
libraries/libmp4v2 is up-to-date.
audio/faac is up-to-date.
audio/faad2 is up-to-date.
libraries/gsm is up-to-date.
libraries/lame is up-to-date.
Dependencies of multimedia/mlt:
  multimedia/ffmpeg
  libraries/libdv
  libraries/libquicktime
Dependencies of multimedia/ffmpeg:
  audio/celt
  libraries/libdc1394
  audio/faac
  libraries/frei0r
  libraries/gsm
  libraries/openjpeg
  libraries/OpenAL
  audio/opencore-amr
  multimedia/rtmpdump
  multimedia/schroedinger
  audio/speex
  libraries/libvpx
  multimedia/xvidcore
  libraries/lame
  multimedia/x264
audio/celt is up-to-date.
libraries/libdc1394 is up-to-date.
Dependencies of audio/faac:
  libraries/libmp4v2
libraries/libmp4v2 is up-to-date.
audio/faac is up-to-date.
libraries/frei0r is up-to-date.
libraries/gsm is up-to-date.
libraries/openjpeg is up-to-date.
libraries/OpenAL is up-to-date.
audio/opencore-amr is up-to-date.
multimedia/rtmpdump is up-to-date.
Dependencies of multimedia/schroedinger:
  development/orc
development/orc is up-to-date.
multimedia/schroedinger is up-to-date.
audio/speex is up-to-date.
libraries/libvpx is up-to-date.
multimedia/xvidcore is up-to-date.
libraries/lame is up-to-date.
multimedia/x264 is up-to-date.
multimedia/ffmpeg is up-to-date.
libraries/libdv is up-to-date.
libraries/libquicktime is up-to-date.
Starting build of multimedia/mlt (add new pkg) --------------------------------
Installing dependencies ...
celt-0.11.3-x86_64-1_SBo: low delay audio codec                          [180K]
libdc1394-2.2.1-x86_64-1_SBo: 1394-Based Digital Camera Control Library  [530K]
libmp4v2-2.0.0-x86_64-1_SBo: library to read, create, and modify mp4 fil [5.1M]
faac-1.28-x86_64-3_SBo: Freeware Advanced Audio Coder                    [220K]
frei0r-1.4-x86_64-1_SBo: a minimalistic plugin API for video sources and [1.8M]
gsm-1.0.13-x86_64-2_SBo: Lossy speech compression library and tool       [190K]
openjpeg-1.5.1-x86_64-1_SBo: JPEG2000 Codec                              [1.4M]
OpenAL-1.15.1-x86_64-1_SBo: a cross-platform 3D audio API                [560K]
opencore-amr-0.1.3-x86_64-1_SBo: AMRNB and AMRWB speech codec            [310K]
rtmpdump-20131007_a9f353c-x86_64-1_SBo: RTMP streams toolkit             [480K]
orc-0.4.18-x86_64-1_SBo: The Oil Runtime Compiler                        [1.2M]
schroedinger-1.0.11-x86_64-1_SBo: Schroedinger a C implementation of BBC [1.6M]
speex-1.2rc1-x86_64-3_SBo: Speex an audio compression format designed fo [790K]
libvpx-1.2.0-x86_64-1_SBo: VP8 video codec                               [3.3M]
xvidcore-1.3.2-x86_64-1_SBo: Xvid MPEG-4 Compliant Video Codec           [2.1M]
lame-3.99.5-x86_64-1_SBo: Lame LAME Ain't an Mp3 Encoder                 [2.2M]
x264-20131101-x86_64-1_SBo: free h264/avc encoder                        [2.1M]
ffmpeg-2.1-x86_64_custom-1_SBo: FFmpeg Software to record, convert and s [20M] 
libdv-1.0.0-x86_64-1_SBo: DV Video codec                                 [520K]
libquicktime-1.2.4-x86_64-2_SBo: quicktime/avi/mp4 codec library         [2.6M]
Checking source files ...
Running mlt.SlackBuild ...
:-) multimedia/mlt BUILD OK (-:
Uninstalling dependencies ...
desktop/recordmydesktop is up-to-date.
Dependencies of multimedia/schroedinger:
  development/orc
development/orc is up-to-date.
multimedia/schroedinger is up-to-date.
multimedia/x264 is up-to-date.
multimedia/xvidcore is up-to-date.
Starting build of multimedia/kdenlive (add new pkg) ---------------------------
Installing dependencies ...
amrnb-7.0.0.2-x86_64-1_SBo: AMR Narrow Band Speech Codec                 [730K]
dvdauthor-0.7.1-x86_64-1_SBo: A simple set of tools to help you author a [530K]
libavc1394-0.5.4-x86_64-1_SBo: GNU/Linux 1394 AV/C Library               [180K]
libdv-1.0.0-x86_64-1_SBo: DV Video codec                                 [520K]
libiec61883-1.2.0-x86_64-2_SBo: implementation of IEC 61883, part 1      [190K]
dvgrab-3.5-x86_64-1_SBo: DV video and audio data via IEEE1394 links      [350K]
libmp4v2-2.0.0-x86_64-1_SBo: library to read, create, and modify mp4 fil [5.1M]
faac-1.28-x86_64-3_SBo: Freeware Advanced Audio Coder                    [220K]
faad2-2.7-x86_64-2_SBo: Faad2 MPEG2 and MPEG-4 AAC decoder               [580K]
gsm-1.0.13-x86_64-2_SBo: Lossy speech compression library and tool       [190K]
lame-3.99.5-x86_64-1_SBo: Lame LAME Ain't an Mp3 Encoder                 [2.2M]
celt-0.11.3-x86_64-1_SBo: low delay audio codec                          [180K]
libdc1394-2.2.1-x86_64-1_SBo: 1394-Based Digital Camera Control Library  [530K]
frei0r-1.4-x86_64-1_SBo: a minimalistic plugin API for video sources and [1.8M]
openjpeg-1.5.1-x86_64-1_SBo: JPEG2000 Codec                              [1.4M]
OpenAL-1.15.1-x86_64-1_SBo: a cross-platform 3D audio API                [560K]
opencore-amr-0.1.3-x86_64-1_SBo: AMRNB and AMRWB speech codec            [310K]
rtmpdump-20131007_a9f353c-x86_64-1_SBo: RTMP streams toolkit             [480K]
orc-0.4.18-x86_64-1_SBo: The Oil Runtime Compiler                        [1.2M]
schroedinger-1.0.11-x86_64-1_SBo: Schroedinger a C implementation of BBC [1.6M]
speex-1.2rc1-x86_64-3_SBo: Speex an audio compression format designed fo [790K]
libvpx-1.2.0-x86_64-1_SBo: VP8 video codec                               [3.3M]
xvidcore-1.3.2-x86_64-1_SBo: Xvid MPEG-4 Compliant Video Codec           [2.1M]
x264-20131101-x86_64-1_SBo: free h264/avc encoder                        [2.1M]
ffmpeg-2.1-x86_64_custom-1_SBo: FFmpeg Software to record, convert and s [20M] 
libquicktime-1.2.4-x86_64-2_SBo: quicktime/avi/mp4 codec library         [2.6M]
mlt-0.9.0-x86_64-1_SBo: MLT Open source multimedia framework             [5.2M]
recordmydesktop-0.3.8.1-x86_64-1_SBo: a desktop session recorder         [150K]
Checking source files ...
Running kdenlive.SlackBuild ...
:-) multimedia/kdenlive BUILD OK (-:
Uninstalling dependencies ...

===============================================================================
! FINISHED                                                           12:58:33 !
===============================================================================

Added:   6
Updated: 0
Rebuilt: 0
Removed: 0
Skipped: 0
Failed:  0

morticia#

Bindestreck · 02-18-2014, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruario

I'm sure he does know how. To play devil's advocate I guess his point is he shouldn't need to know how.

Oh c'mon, a true Slacker fixes it himself, he could easily find other ways how to solve his so called dependency resolution problem, see willysr's post above for an example. After 10 years he did not understand that Slackware will never be a distro holding your hand?

jtsn · 02-18-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruario

Yep but if you have ever read any of his previous posts you will know that he was never a fan of manual dependency management.

The usual Linux distro is built of a large web of inter-dependent binaries. Some people may find building such pyramids interesting and may be proud of getting a 20k collection of .debs "stable". But for real world use such a fragile construction is just not robust enough: You replace an essential part with a slightly incompatible one and the whole house of cards breaks down. This is especially an issue, because the Linux dynamic linker still doesn't support side-by-side DLLs.

So instead of that you want to have simple, manageable parts of software, that work independently. You want to restrict dependencies to a maximum of two levels:

1. required base operating system (e. g. "Slackware 14.1 complete install")
2. required middleware (e. g. "Java Runtime Environment")
and then on top of that the self-contained application itself.

That must be the goal and not having 30 entry long queues of libwhatever. There is a reason why the most successful/most used end-user Linux distributions are task-specific self-booters and live-systems, because they don't concern the user ever with having to install or update software. They are basically "one application" that boots on bare metal. And that is not enough for a reliable desktop.

stormtracknole · 02-18-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willysr

I'm not sure if OP has tasted sbopkg + sqg, but i find it very easy and since kdenlive is already available on SBo, installing it would be very easy thing to do

Install sbopkg
Copy sqg to /usr/bin and edit the repo version to 14.1
Run sbopkg -r
Run sqg -a
Run sbopkg install kdenlive

That's it

I'm sure it would take less than 3 hours

Learned something new today! I was not aware of sqg. Very nifty tool!

sycamorex · 02-18-2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bindestreck

Oh c'mon, a true Slacker fixes it himself, he could easily find other ways how to solve his so called dependency resolution problem, see willysr's post above for an example. After 10 years he did not understand that Slackware will never be a distro holding your hand?

True Slacker?!

Who is a true slacker and who is to decide who a true slacker is?

Can we just use our favourite linux distro and refrain from branding people as true slackers or otherwise? Btw, what would be the opposite in this case? Unworthy slacker? Fake slacker?

cynwulf · 02-18-2014, 09:03 AM

@the OP, best of luck with openSUSE, I'm sure you'll be back.

ruario · 02-18-2014, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bindestreck

Oh c'mon, a true Slacker fixes it himself, he could easily find other ways how to solve his so called dependency resolution problem, see willysr's post above for an example. After 10 years he did not understand that Slackware will never be a distro holding your hand?

He understood and he fixed it by switching distros.

Each to their own, personally I'm still happy with Slack.

Bindestreck · 02-18-2014, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamorex

True Slacker?!

Who is a true slacker and who is to decide who a true slacker is?

Can we just use our favourite linux distro and refrain from branding people as true slackers or otherwise? Btw, what would be the opposite in this case? Unworthy slacker? Fake slacker?

Oh boy, now I got 3 senior members acting as moral watchers against me, keep coming, it triggers me even more. He is a false slacker to me yes, that simple, complaining as a child (my personal definition, not a universal one).

brianL · 02-18-2014, 09:19 AM

I've got school reports dating back over 50 years to prove that I'm a True Slacker.

ruario · 02-18-2014, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtsn

The usual Linux distro is built of a large web of inter-dependent binaries. Some people may find building such pyramids interesting and may be proud of getting a 20k collection of .debs "stable". But for real world use such a fragile construction is just not robust enough: You replace an essential part with a slightly incompatible one and the whole house of cards breaks down. This is especially an issue, because the Linux dynamic linker still doesn't support side-by-side DLLs.

So instead of that you want to have simple, manageable parts of software, that work independently. You want to restrict dependencies to a maximum of two levels:

1. required base operating system (e. g. "Slackware 14.1 complete install")
2. required middleware (e. g. "Java Runtime Environment")
and then on top of that the self-contained application itself.

That must be the goal and not having 30 entry long queues of libwhatever. There is a reason why the most successful/most used end-user Linux distributions are task-specific self-booters and live-systems, because they don't concern the user ever with having to install or update software. They are basically "one application" that boots on bare metal. And that is not enough for a reliable desktop.

You are preaching to the converted! See my old blog post.

The way I see it is this. I like Slackware as it is and am happy with manual dependency management. I would also argue as I have previously that people should not exclude choosing Slackware because they think this is a major problem. They should try it and I suspect many of them would not find it an issue and may even like it.

However in the case of the OP, he tried it (for a very long time) and it still wasn't what he wanted, which is OK by me. Not everyone likes that way of working in the same way that not everyone likes olives.

hitest · 02-18-2014, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamorex

True Slacker?!

Who is a true slacker and who is to decide who a true slacker is?

Can we just use our favourite linux distro and refrain from branding people as true slackers or otherwise? Btw, what would be the opposite in this case? Unworthy slacker? Fake slacker?

Well-said, we are all Slackers. OpenSUSE is a great distro; I run it from time to time.
I wish you well, vdemuth.

moisespedro · 02-18-2014, 09:31 AM

Here is the complete opposite: I have an easier time on my machine (slackware) than on my dad's PC (xubuntu)
All of that with using just two softwares to install everything I need: sbopkg and slackpkg+.

AlleyTrotter · 02-18-2014, 10:10 AM

I am tempted to say,
"Don't let the door hit you in the butt"
but I won't.
John

jtsn · 02-18-2014, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruario

You are preaching to the converted! See my old blog post.

The way I see it is this. I like Slackware as it is and am happy with manual dependency management.

Some time ago I tried dealing with this:

Code:

┌────↑(-)─────────────────────Showing READMEs────────────────────────────────┐
│ +----------------------+                                                   │
│ | The active queue is: |                                                   │
│ | slib                 |                                                   │
│ | libofx               |                                                   │
│ | libgnomecanvas       |                                                   │
│ | libgnomecups         |                                                   │
│ | libgnomeprint        |                                                   │
│ | libgnomeprintui      |                                                   │
│ | ORBit2               |                                                   │
│ | libbonobo            |                                                   │
│ | gnome-mime-data      |                                                   │
│ | gnome-vfs            |                                                   │
│ | libgnome             |                                                   │
│ | libbonoboui          |                                                   │
│ | libgnomeui           |                                                   │
│ | gtkhtml              |                                                   │
│ | goffice              |                                                   │
│ | gnucash              |                                                   │
│ +----------------------+                                                   │

and I didn't like it. Even if the build succeeds, it's still missing essential parts like aqbanking, which are not even on SBo. Sooner or later something on that list above will get updated as requirement for a different package and break Gnucash.

So I chose this instead. It contains everything the application needs and installs perfectly into ~/.wine within five minutes, even on an Atom CPU. It was just built for the wrong platform. All it needs beside a Slackware base install is a single package as a runtime and that's it. It even survives Slackware release upgrades.

So the easiest way to install and run open source applications is installing their Windows ports using WINE. And that says a lot about the state of our Linux desktop...