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Old 06-10-2019, 07:18 AM   #3766
baumerang
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Cool


Quote:
Originally Posted by SCerovec View Post
true,
nowadays i just https://downloadmoreram.com/ (did you know they have new cloud support there? )
Im holding out for full blockchain support.
 
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:05 AM   #3767
0XBF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I can't speak for anyone else but having been involved in the Music business in one form or another for almost 60 years and being still involved in semi-pro recording work I require extremely low latency. I always build a custom kernel to achieve as close to 1msec latency as I can get. This means that with multiple tracks and plugins I can realistically rely on 6msec-8msec system-wide. Using PulseAudio and being then forced to use the special JACK for Pulse (which lacks a few important features from the "normal" JACK) the very best I can hope for in a similar mix is around 18msec. This is an unacceptable figure even if it did something I needed and it does absolutely nothing I need since my soundcard has hardware mixing.

The drawbacks? From one point of view having to spend time manually setting up audio is a drawback but ultimately it is freedom, flexibility and power to me. It is a cost I am more than merely willing to invest, given the returns.
I'm jumping a little off the topic of desktop eyecandy here but do you have any hints or resources you could link for your audio setup? I dabble with home recording guitars and mics with my Focusrite Scarlett, as well as midi/synth programming using Ardour as my DAW. My jack setup (running at 48khz/1024frames/2) gives me a latency around 42msec which isn't a good start and setting things higher leads to xruns. I'd like to get into the kernel customization game and was thinking about compiling a realtime kernel for audio but I'd like to glean as much info as I can, particularly from people with a Slackware perspective.

Cheers
 
Old 06-11-2019, 05:30 PM   #3768
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0XBF View Post
I'm jumping a little off the topic of desktop eyecandy here but do you have any hints or resources you could link for your audio setup? I dabble with home recording guitars and mics with my Focusrite Scarlett, as well as midi/synth programming using Ardour as my DAW. My jack setup (running at 48khz/1024frames/2) gives me a latency around 42msec which isn't a good start and setting things higher leads to xruns. I'd like to get into the kernel customization game and was thinking about compiling a realtime kernel for audio but I'd like to glean as much info as I can, particularly from people with a Slackware perspective.

Cheers
Hello 0XBF
First of all I will try to be brief since this is a rather big step off topic but whew! it is also a really big subject with a LOT of variables. I don't understand why you are getting such really high latency. Perhaps the first thing to be certain you know is that having plugins enabled but not actually in use still adds to latency, so one need a flexible setup. I also suspect that USB interface of your Focusrite is a major part of your latency. Naturally having a custom kernel is also a major help.

So I recommend starting with AlienBob's basic notes for building a kernel with lower latency, located here ---- https://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sl...kernelbuilding

That will be a decent boost right from the jump BUT if you're really willing to put in the effort and time to get as low as possible you will need to play around with different scheduling and timing settings and just see what works best. Maybe someone more in the know has some formula but because of the many variables I just try stuff and test it. What soundcard you use, what interfaces, and so much more all enters into what works best for you and your hardware. So maybe see it as a somewhat tedious quest but with great rewards.

Being old and old school I try to do as much as I possibly can analog. I have different ~/.asoundrcs and a script for toggling since needs for things like Skype, Hangouts, Discord, etc are quite different from recording. This is especially true in my case since my ESI Juli@ soundcards are setup with 1/4" balanced I/O and I most often use recording mics through an analog hardware mixer employing Line Outs, not really suitable or convenient for Webcam Mics which in my case is USB, which is in turn unsuitable for recording. So I have 2 separate use cases I can fairly easily toggle.

A huge help in understanding the issues you face with USB and a few other interfaces can be found here ---- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcPgRsji6nM


Currently PCIe is the way to go.

I doubt it will hand you complete answers but it will definitely make your goals and paths to them clearer. Don't let the title put you off if you've never used Firewire. That has almost no impact on the information he addresses. the goal is the same - getting the best modern setup for really low latency.

Start there and any follow-up you need please do feel free to PM me.

FWIW I don't do much live recording anymore but I do quite a bit of conversion from old analog vinyl and especially tapes from musicians and bands I grew up and worked with or others from word of mouth.

Last edited by enorbet; 06-11-2019 at 05:32 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-12-2019, 12:17 PM   #3769
linus72
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Slackware full install (current), kernel 4.19.47-xanmod24, modified flux desktop (nFlux), using Slackware-xdg-menus from SlackBuilds
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...-menus-925629/

Here's my /root/.fluxbox folder setup so all apps show up in menu

MENU
Code:
[begin] (nFluxOS)
  [include] (~/.fluxbox/hag-apps-menu)
  [include] (/var/cache/xdg-menu/fluxbox/boxrc)
[submenu] (Configure)
  [include] (~/.fluxbox/hag-baseconf-menu)
[end]
  [separator]
  [include] (~/.fluxbox/hag-exit-menu)
[end]
HAG-APPS-MENU (borrowed from Hag Linux https://archiveos.org/hag/)
Code:
[begin]
    [exec] (Thunar) {/usr/bin/thunar}
    [exec] (Konsole) {/usr/bin/konsole}
    [exec] (Kwrite) {/usr/bin/kwrite}
    [exec] (Firefox) {firefox}
    [end]
  [end]
[end]
HAG-BASECONF-MENU
Code:
[begin] (nFlux)
    [submenu] (Wallpapers)
        [wallpapers] (~/.wallpapers/) {fbsetbg}
        [wallpapers] (/usr/share/wallpapers/) {fbsetbg}
    [end]
    [submenu] (Styles)
        [stylesdir] (~/.fluxbox/styles)
        [stylesdir] (/usr/share/fluxbox/styles)
    [end]
    [workspaces] (Workspaces)
    [config]  (Configuration)
[end]
HAG-EXIT-MENU
Code:
[begin]
    [reconfig] (Reconfigure)
    [restart] (Restart)
    [exit] (Logout)
    [submenu] (ExitMenu)
    [exec] (LockScreen) {xlock}
    [exec] (Reboot) {reboot}
    [exec] (Shutdown) {shutdown}
    [exec] (Hibernate) {hibernate}
    [exec] (Suspend) {suspend}
    [end]
[end]
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2019-06-11_18-43-47.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	64.2 KB
ID:	30739  

Last edited by linus72; 06-12-2019 at 12:37 PM.
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-13-2019, 05:22 PM   #3770
0XBF
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Registered: Nov 2018
Location: Winnipeg
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 11

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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Hello 0XBF
First of all I will try to be brief since this is a rather big step off topic but whew! it is also a really big subject with a LOT of variables. I don't understand why you are getting such really high latency. Perhaps the first thing to be certain you know is that having plugins enabled but not actually in use still adds to latency, so one need a flexible setup. I also suspect that USB interface of your Focusrite is a major part of your latency. Naturally having a custom kernel is also a major help.

So I recommend starting with AlienBob's basic notes for building a kernel with lower latency, located here ---- https://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sl...kernelbuilding

That will be a decent boost right from the jump BUT if you're really willing to put in the effort and time to get as low as possible you will need to play around with different scheduling and timing settings and just see what works best. Maybe someone more in the know has some formula but because of the many variables I just try stuff and test it. What soundcard you use, what interfaces, and so much more all enters into what works best for you and your hardware. So maybe see it as a somewhat tedious quest but with great rewards.

Being old and old school I try to do as much as I possibly can analog. I have different ~/.asoundrcs and a script for toggling since needs for things like Skype, Hangouts, Discord, etc are quite different from recording. This is especially true in my case since my ESI Juli@ soundcards are setup with 1/4" balanced I/O and I most often use recording mics through an analog hardware mixer employing Line Outs, not really suitable or convenient for Webcam Mics which in my case is USB, which is in turn unsuitable for recording. So I have 2 separate use cases I can fairly easily toggle.

A huge help in understanding the issues you face with USB and a few other interfaces can be found here ---- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcPgRsji6nM


Currently PCIe is the way to go.

I doubt it will hand you complete answers but it will definitely make your goals and paths to them clearer. Don't let the title put you off if you've never used Firewire. That has almost no impact on the information he addresses. the goal is the same - getting the best modern setup for really low latency.

Start there and any follow-up you need please do feel free to PM me.

FWIW I don't do much live recording anymore but I do quite a bit of conversion from old analog vinyl and especially tapes from musicians and bands I grew up and worked with or others from word of mouth.
Well I've been messing around with this for the last few days and have made improvements. The changes I ended up making so far is to build the 5.0.19 kernel with the real-time patch (not completely necessary but I figured why not), an initscript to boost realtime limits and memlock levels, rtirq to boost priority of the usb Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 interface, and killed pulseaudio.

Jack runs smoothly at 48kHz/64frames/3periods now. Jack calculates latency at 4ms and I measured round trip latency with jack_delay at 10ms, not bad for my fairly cheap setup. I'll see how it holds up with adding more effects processing but I'm not sure how much harder the USB interface can be pushed. I'm planning on building a rig in the near future so I may end up looking at PCIe interfaces after all. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
 
Old 06-13-2019, 05:50 PM   #3771
vtel57
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Location: VPN Tunnel, USA
Distribution: Slackware64
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Hmm... I haven't posted a screenie here in some time. Here's the current one; old school Slack+Xfce...

https://i.imgur.com/2deLolt.png
 
4 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-14-2019, 12:01 PM   #3772
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0XBF View Post
Well I've been messing around with this for the last few days and have made improvements. The changes I ended up making so far is to build the 5.0.19 kernel with the real-time patch (not completely necessary but I figured why not), an initscript to boost realtime limits and memlock levels, rtirq to boost priority of the usb Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 interface, and killed pulseaudio.

Jack runs smoothly at 48kHz/64frames/3periods now. Jack calculates latency at 4ms and I measured round trip latency with jack_delay at 10ms, not bad for my fairly cheap setup. I'll see how it holds up with adding more effects processing but I'm not sure how much harder the USB interface can be pushed. I'm planning on building a rig in the near future so I may end up looking at PCIe interfaces after all. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Half an order of magnitude is an impressive improvement, especially while still using USB! Proper job! I have often wondered why I succumb to gear lust whenever I get new hardware considering that I made decent quality recordings with a lousy SBLive and a single core 32 bit CPU with less that a Gig of RAM (though SCSI drives certainly helped back then). I am thinking that with my somewhat diminished needs and the expandability of this, my only multi-core 64bit machine, that if I need to dedicate it as my recording machine and just use whatever I replace it with for everyday chores, I just might be able to resist the endless gear lust. : ^ )
 
Old 06-17-2019, 02:53 AM   #3773
andrew.46
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I have been testing my new Threadripper build and while it is not yet completely setup here is a current desktop image. (Just be aware that this is 2.7mb image.)

The CPU is being pushed almost to its limits by compiling FFmpeg with -j 32 but I am yet to see the maximum boost speed of 4.4 GHz. I am simultaneously running a GPU benchmark with Unigine's benchmarking application 'Heaven'. Still working on the Conky settings but you can see the idea there at the moment...

Nice system which still needs a bit more work from a hardware and software point of view, perhaps another 2 weeks of after and before work efforts.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-17-2019, 02:24 PM   #3774
enorbet
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Awesome CPU andrew.46 and a clean looking Desktop. I am curious as to which CPU mode you were in for the in-progress benchmarking and also the final score.
 
Old 06-17-2019, 02:57 PM   #3775
SCerovec
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew.46 View Post
I have been testing my new Threadripper build and while it is not yet completely setup here is a current desktop image. (Just be aware that this is 2.7mb image.)

The CPU is being pushed almost to its limits by compiling FFmpeg with -j 32 but I am yet to see the maximum boost speed of 4.4 GHz. I am simultaneously running a GPU benchmark with Unigine's benchmarking application 'Heaven'. Still working on the Conky settings but you can see the idea there at the moment...

Nice system which still needs a bit more work from a hardware and software point of view, perhaps another 2 weeks of after and before work efforts.
little wonder all that fog in the background - it must be from the steam off the CPU?
(just kidding)
 
Old 06-17-2019, 03:58 PM   #3776
andrew.46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCerovec View Post
little wonder all that fog in the background - it must be from the steam off the CPU?
(just kidding)
Surprisingly enough the CPU keeps reasonably cool, I am using a 360 AIO water cooler which so far is doing a great job. Mind you I will push the CPU a little harder soon, then there may be some steam
 
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:01 PM   #3777
andrew.46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Awesome CPU andrew.46 and a clean looking Desktop. I am curious as to which CPU mode you were in for the in-progress benchmarking and also the final score.
I am not sure what you mean by CPU mode? As for the final benchmarking score I will run it tonight (with no compiling in the background!) and see what the score is. Mind you this is a 1660Ti so the 'Heaven' score will not be world shaking, I believe the leaders in this sort of thing are the 2080Ti GPUs at the moment. Way beyond both my budget and my needs
 
Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #3778
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew.46 View Post
I am not sure what you mean by CPU mode? As for the final benchmarking score I will run it tonight (with no compiling in the background!) and see what the score is. Mind you this is a 1660Ti so the 'Heaven' score will not be world shaking, I believe the leaders in this sort of thing are the 2080Ti GPUs at the moment. Way beyond both my budget and my needs
The Threadripper CPUs have at least two modes that I know of - Creator Mode and Game Mode. Creator Mode has more "horsepower" but at rather high latency in memory access. Game mode has reduced overall "horsepower" but dramatically lower latency as well as "shows a face" to old games that can't use (or freak out) at unexpected cores and threads count. I benchmark with Heaven as well and while your scores may not be "world-shaking" they should be substantially higher than mine since I'm using an i5-3550 (4 core) OC'd to 4000 and a GTX 1070Ti. I hope to learn something about Heaven from your scores as to the relative importance in that benchmark of CPU vs/ GPU as well as if it responds more to "horsepower" or latency.
 
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Old Yesterday, 02:23 AM   #3779
andrew.46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
The Threadripper CPUs have at least two modes that I know of - Creator Mode and Game Mode. Creator Mode has more "horsepower" but at rather high latency in memory access. Game mode has reduced overall "horsepower" but dramatically lower latency as well as "shows a face" to old games that can't use (or freak out) at unexpected cores and threads count.
Thanks for that heads up. Looks like the terms 'Creator Mode' (the default that I must be using) and 'Game Mode' are terms used in the Ryzen Master software which I am not using as it is windows only. Looks like the same effect can be dug out from the BIOS but these terms are not used there so I need to do some research first. I am not that much of a gamer so I suspect that I will stay with the use of all cores: Creator Mode. More research coming up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I benchmark with Heaven as well and while your scores may not be "world-shaking" they should be substantially higher than mine since I'm using an i5-3550 (4 core) OC'd to 4000 and a GTX 1070Ti. I hope to learn something about Heaven from your scores as to the relative importance in that benchmark of CPU vs/ GPU as well as if it responds more to "horsepower" or latency.
I confess that I ran the benchmark more to test the cooling fans of the GPU which as it turns out only cut in at 65C. With this test the fans only run at 45% capacity and keep the temperature at 65C and less. Cooling post test is rapid. Anyway I attach a screenshot with the results....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Untitled.png
Views:	34
Size:	53.8 KB
ID:	30758  
 
Old Yesterday, 10:56 AM   #3780
enorbet
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Hello again andrew.46.

Well this is getting interesting. Here is one of my results from a few months ago which seems to ask more questions than it answers. One is why is your Heaven showing less information than mine? One I didn't even notice before is why is my OC'd CPU not throttling up to max with such an intense benchmark? Obviously another is why are the scores so out of line with our hardware? That might be explained by resolution and quality setting items yours isn't reporting but I can't tell without those. Anyway maybe this will help you get the most from yours. I apparently have some kernel digging to do.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	lBd4yJe.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	50.2 KB
ID:	30759  

Last edited by enorbet; Yesterday at 11:00 AM. Reason: forgot attached image
 
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