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Old 01-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #16
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
...can you please calm down and supply some data, preferably a screenshot? Thank you.
See the screenshot attached to my previous post.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 04:08 PM   #17
enorbet
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@cwizardone

Greetz
An apology would have been appreciated but at least thank you for providing a screenshot with some data. Now we are getting somewhere productive. It would be helpful if you could please qualify it further. Would you list CPU, kernel, and KDE version number and verify that the only apps running are those two showing on that desktop? You are indeed getting substantially higher resource usage than I am and I'd like to know why. I presume you might, as well.
Thank You
 
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #18
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...

Last edited by lumak; 01-04-2011 at 04:18 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 04:22 PM   #19
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Greetz
An apology would have been appreciated but at least thank you for providing a screenshot with some data. Now we are getting somewhere productive. It would be helpful if you could please qualify it further. Would you list CPU, kernel, and KDE version number and verify that the only apps running are those two showing on that desktop? You are indeed getting substantially higher resource usage than I am and I'd like to know why. I presume you might, as well.
Thank You
OK, I was a bit hard on you, but you jumped right on the bandwagon with that KDE Kool-Aid drinker, brixtoncalling.
My apologies.

The apps running were mentioned in the previous post.

Just for chuckles here is another screen shot. In this one akondai (whatever) has been un-installed and nepomuk and strigi have been disabled. The system was then re-booted. The same apps are running as in
the first screenshot. The KDE system monitor shows 100% CPU usage, but the Xfce system monitor reported
it was between 9-13% and 308 megs of memory. The kernel is 2.6.35.7.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	kdememoryusage02.jpeg
Views:	41
Size:	136.1 KB
ID:	5755  

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-04-2011 at 04:25 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 06:03 PM   #20
jkirchner
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Interesting, I have never been a big KDE fan but have started using it starting with 13.1 and I have to say I am quite pleased. I do not see the usage cwizardone describes, in fact mine is about what he shows for XFCE. I did get rid of akonadi though and that nepomuk thing is disabled. I don't see the purpose in those. But, all in all I am very pleased with KDE4 and I am warming to it.

The thing I like best is Slackware's vanilla version, they do not assume what I want it to be. I just do the full install and run from there. I am looking forward to my subscription copy of 13.2 whenever it is ready
 
Old 01-04-2011, 06:09 PM   #21
enorbet
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Curiouser and Curiouser

Geeez so you run less and it uses more? Good Grief does it catch fire in runlevel 1 ? I can certainly see why you'd jump ship but hopefully you see that something is not right and it isn't the way it was designed to be. Wish there was a way to pin it down but I don't see how even a full debug kernel would do it. Corrupted iso? Bad burn?

PS For the record I did not jump on the bandwagon. My exact words were "benefit of the doubt" and "leave it to him (you)". My remark about fanbois posting FUD was in general about forums and totally conditional regarding you. You have redeemed yourself and erased any doubts about your position and intent.

Last edited by enorbet; 01-04-2011 at 06:15 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 06:10 PM   #22
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirchner View Post
Interesting, I have never been a big KDE fan but have started using it starting with 13.1 and I have to say I am quite pleased. I do not see the usage cwizardone describes, in fact mine is about what he shows for XFCE. I did get rid of akonadi though and that nepomuk thing is disabled. I don't see the purpose in those. But, all in all I am very pleased with KDE4 and I am warming to it.

The thing I like best is Slackware's vanilla version, they do not assume what I want it to be. I just do the full install and run from there. I am looking forward to my subscription copy of 13.2 whenever it is ready
Just to clarify, I wasn't showing Xfce. That is the Xfce system monitor measuring KDE's performance in both screen shots, side by side with the KDE system monitor.

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-04-2011 at 06:13 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 06:16 PM   #23
jkirchner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post
Just to clarify, I wasn't showing Xfce. That is the Xfce system monitor measuring KDE's performance in both screen shots, side by side with the KDE system monitor.
I misread it and did not check the screenshot as closely as I should have. I get very similar readings using the same monitor. I am quite happy with the performance. I never really was a big KDE fan but have really taken to KDE4. It seems to me to get better with each version so I am willing to ride it out.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 10:37 PM   #24
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Geeez so you run less and it uses more? Good Grief does it catch fire in runlevel 1 ? I can certainly see why you'd jump ship but hopefully you see that something is not right and it isn't the way it was designed to be. Wish there was a way to pin it down but I don't see how even a full debug kernel would do it. Corrupted iso? Bad burn?....
Well, you are correct, something is not quite right, but that is not for me to chase down and "repair." Oh, over the years I've done all that, but not now, not in 2011.
Back in the "good old days" I compiled a kernel or two or three and when needed I compile an application; just did it the other day to update the Kipi plug-ins.
Sitting here on my desk is a well worn first edition of "Running Linux," which I wouldn't be without; which is to say I have some knowledge of Linux.
However, chase down a problem with kde? After what those clowns have done to 'us' over the last few years??!! Not going to happen. Either they do it right or I, and many other, will go, and already have gone, to another GUI. In my case Xfce. Fortunately, those kde applications I like run in Xfce.
If the day ever comes, and I think this is exaclty what the kde developers are trying to do, that you can't run any kde applications unless you are running them in kde, they will lose even more users.
OTOH, if, IF, they ever bring KMail into the 21st Century, I might take another look, but given the mentality of the kde developers that is not likely to happen anytime soon.
 
Old 01-05-2011, 03:06 AM   #25
enorbet
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Major Implications

Greetz

I have to start out apologizing for the length bit I think deep issues are at stake and I will try to make it worth reading.

A really strong negative reaction to the initial release of KDE4 is common. I hated it and on several levels. It looked to me like the team had abandoned power users like me and was following the "Ubuntu - Linux - should - dumb - down - get - glossy - and - become - free - Windows" way and I despise that philosophy. Plus, where it once ran 120 processes on average, now it commonly runs 300. I don't want a lowest common denominator user's platform. I want an admin's platform that combines the awesome CLI with equally deep and powerful GUI, but the code has to be tight and not wasteful.

I was angry, abandoned, and concerned that in future releases of even Slackware I would either have to hope the development team for v3 would continue for many years and struggle with "shoehorning" it into Slack as an extended part of install, or give up on KDE altogether. I've been running KDE since 1998 and I really didn't want to just toss out all that accumulated experience, I nearly hated that guy (forgotten his name) who took over the design team because it seemed as if he'd chosen a radical change in direction that I couldn't and wouldn't follow.

In my case I've been the butt of this joke with DOS, Windoze, OS/2, and Xandros at the cost of countless hours and considerable cash. It was only natutral and seemed more likely than not that KDE was doing it, too. What's worst of all it nurtured the fear that even Slackware would ultimately head down this path and there would soon be no viable options. I imagine many of you felt like this too.

Despite all this I am now a convert. KDE4 is incredibly configurable and deeply powerful. Anything I don't want can be easily turned off, What's more, even running everything, although I still see that awful looking number of processes, the truth is that memory management has gotten so sophisticated that KDE is now just as fast as it always was with half the running processes because they sleep more efficiently.

Besides simple resource measurements as shown in my screenie, another reason I know this is that I am an avid Quake3 player and until a month ago I had to logout of KDE and go to Blackbox or Window Maker to get the framerates needed for special tricks. Now I get that performance in KDE. This is not about mere gaming. It's just an easy and visual benchmark of intense usage.

Once I found I could still run kfmclient or krusader, as well as most other v3 apps I missed with the KDE3-Compat package I settled down a little. I found out I could resize icons on the fly, seamlesly. I began to find things, little things at first, that I liked.

Then I discovered how many and how powerful Plasmoids are. I have only scratched the surface (and apparently so has KDE as multitudes will surely be added) but for starters virtually every command in CLI can be run and represented by a Plasmoid on the Desktop.

Just the single STDIN/STDOUT/STDERR plasmoid holds thousands of variations and possibilities. Plamoids can replace GKrellM or Conky without installing or maintaining anything extra and at half the resources cost.


Or if you prefer mundane over arcane, all the plugins and addons for GKrellm and Conky are also available like Weather, Media Players, Email notification and the like, again at considerably reduced overhead because it is integrated into the Desktop. I think this is absolutely brilliant! The big bonus is this has legs. This can grow and evolve for many years, or not. It is still a choice you can make.

Even though the Unholy Trio uses less than they did just a month ago, in my experience it is still a question of confidence if the juice will ever be worth the squeeze. However I think we need to ask ourselves, with drives now reaching 3TB and no end in sight just how long do we think it will be before an indexing database might save us time and trouble?

As for right now any doubters need only click the wrench icon on KRunner (the new Run command on steroids) to see just how this is evolving. It should blow your mind as much as discovering just how much more than simple text VI and EMACs can do once you discover macros and extensibilty.

BTW I read somewhere that Richard Stallman doesn't use a browser, not even Lynx ! but instead uses "wget" !!! Now that may just be 1337 as Hell but I really don't see how it is more powerful or productive OR FUN! as what I do with a browser, and I started with Telnet and Gopher.

This reminds me of how Apple unjustly lost out to Microsoft. When DOS could barely address 1MB of RAM and all above 640K was tacked on, Apple's LISA could directly access 16MB, broke the 16K segment barrier, increased extended attributes and only lost out because Billy still supported Visi-Calc. Apple's LISA may have been an epic fail commercially but all Operating Systems are essentially like it now. Can you try to imagine just how much further computing would be now if Lisa had won out and Microsoft had become an also ran? We face something similar if on a less epic and fundamental scale, but this is the future of the Desktop at stake,

I'm telling you doubters that KDE did not "jump the shark" but just made the often grave error of too much innovation too soon. Which side will you be on? and how long do you think your present DE will stay the same without dying on the vine? It is worth a return visit.

Last edited by enorbet; 01-05-2011 at 03:12 AM.
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:36 AM   #26
enorbet
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Prefer Pictures?

Greetz
If the last post was TLDR or just too much to digest at once, try THIS Be sure to hit the border and blow the screenie up so you can see all the desktop contents and plasmoids. It's not mine (dammit!) but it's awesome.

Last edited by enorbet; 01-05-2011 at 03:38 AM.
 
Old 01-05-2011, 12:55 PM   #27
2handband
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@cwizardone: don't run the KDE system monitor; for some reason the thing sucks tremendous resources! Remove the system monitor widget and try any other monitoring tool and you'll find your CPU usage significantly reduced.
 
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:38 PM   #28
guanx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post
OK, I was a bit hard on you, but you jumped right on the bandwagon with that KDE Kool-Aid drinker, brixtoncalling.
My apologies.

The apps running were mentioned in the previous post.

Just for chuckles here is another screen shot. In this one akondai (whatever) has been un-installed and nepomuk and strigi have been disabled. The system was then re-booted. The same apps are running as in
the first screenshot. The KDE system monitor shows 100% CPU usage, but the Xfce system monitor reported
it was between 9-13% and 308 megs of memory. The kernel is 2.6.35.7.
Your screenshot shows that your processes are sort by name instead of by cpu usage. That's pretty useless.

I don't have any high cpu usage with ksysguard --
  • KDE version: 4.5.1
  • CPU: Intel Core Duo U2500 (humble 1.2 GHz)
  • Video: Intel 945GM (poor integrated graphics)
  • Desktop Effects: On
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ksysguard_1.png
Views:	15
Size:	24.3 KB
ID:	5761   Click image for larger version

Name:	ksysguard_2.png
Views:	15
Size:	33.5 KB
ID:	5762  

Last edited by guanx; 01-05-2011 at 03:21 PM.
 
Old 01-05-2011, 02:34 PM   #29
enorbet
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Query

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
@cwizardone: don't run the KDE system monitor; for some reason the thing sucks tremendous resources! Remove the system monitor widget and try any other monitoring tool and you'll find your CPU usage significantly reduced.
Greetz
Can you clear up for me your usage of the term "widget"? Since Plasmoids are called widgets I'd like to know if that is what you were referring to as a resource hog or whether you meant the "System Monitor" applicarion from the Kicker Menu.

For me the Application (ksysguard) uses approximately 2% CPU and has about a 21MB footprint. The Plasmoid (which looks a lot like GKrellM) barely registers.

Thanks in advance.
 
Old 01-05-2011, 02:50 PM   #30
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
...This reminds me of how Apple unjustly lost out to Microsoft. When DOS could barely address 1MB of RAM and all above 640K was tacked on, Apple's LISA could directly access 16MB, broke the 16K segment barrier, increased extended attributes and only lost out because Billy still supported Visi-Calc. Apple's LISA may have been an epic fail commercially but all Operating Systems are essentially like it now. Can you try to imagine just how much further computing would be now if Lisa had won out and Microsoft had become an also ran? We face something similar if on a less epic and fundamental scale, but this is the future of the Desktop at stake....
You and I know that, but the vast majority of the computer using public could care less. Apple lost to mickeysoft and the IBM clones due to price. The same reason the technically superior Betamax lost to VHS, price.
Apple is never going to gain substantial market share against mickeysoft unless they do two things. One, lower their prices, and, two, release their operating system for use on hardware other than their own. As Apple is a hardware company and not a software company, that is not likely to happen.

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-05-2011 at 02:51 PM.
 
  


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