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-   Slackware (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/)
-   -   The mass exodus if Slackware uses Systemd (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/the-mass-exodus-if-slackware-uses-systemd-4175523380/)

a4z 02-17-2015 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley (Post 5318601)
Yet here you are doing the very same thing, avoiding the facts while looking down your nose at everyone else and sneering at them?

As I suggested, take a break.
did you hide some facts in your confuse writing? are you sure you have recovered from the burn out you outed on previous pages?

TobiSGD 02-17-2015 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttk (Post 5318309)
This is undesirable. The services a server needs to deliver is known ahead of time, and it is very prudent to make sure all of those services are functioning properly before it (re-)enters production use.

The traditional model is the correct one: All necessary services are started, their health ascertained, and then the server added to the work pool.
How about starting VMs or containers on demand when a port is queried? Don't you think that is a valid use case, preferred over having hundreds VMs/containers starting at boot "just in case"?

TobiSGD 02-17-2015 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 (Post 5318336)
I'm actually now more interested in the "harder to hack" scenario because we still have an under/undocumented API within systemd to the point nobody but the systemd devs knows what it truly does. To me, that should raise some alarms before anything else. I'm no "anti-government tinfoil hatter" but I do value my privacy and the NSA doesn't need to know what they don't need to know, and I, for one, would actually like to know if my system has a backdoor.

As far as reliability goes, the standard model has been nearly 100% reliable and BSD uses a nearly identical design. No question anyone should prefer stability over performance, unless you're doing testing or evaluations.
Do you really think that when a 3-letter agency wants to have access to your computer they wait until systemd is established everywhere? They go for hardware, if they want to hack you: http://www.techpowerup.com/209925/ns...-firmware.html

TobiSGD 02-17-2015 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley (Post 5318580)
Is it any wonder our "enterprises" are collapsing all around us, when we have decisions like this made?
Wow, really, wow! I am not sure if I should be astonished or just outright confused. Are you really telling us that the cause for world wide economical collapse is not greedy bankers and corrupt politicians, but systemd and Docker?

TobiSGD 02-17-2015 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salparadise (Post 5318582)
If they get a Moderator onside (and no, that's not an accusation) then so much the better because they then begin to silence dissent officially.
So, how much do you think they pay me? Or how else do you think they "got me onside"? Also, how much anti-systemd posts exactly do you think have been censored on this page?
As I have said earlier, if my moderator status bothers you and you think it might damage LQ, its reputation or would even lead to a somehow censored LQ (despite the fact that I am not the only moderator here and something like that would be quickly discovered), I am willing to step back as moderator. That won't stop me from debating you, which would still be pretty easy, since you only present conspiracy theories that conveniently, due to their very nature, can't be backed up with actual facts.

Do you really want to know how they "got me onside" (if you followed my posts you would know that I was opposed to systemd in the beginning)? With sound arguments, with me evaluating it for my use cases and finding that it fits most of them very good (better than any other solution out there) for me, with providing useful functions that make my work easier (of course now some people will cry out loud how lazy I am for not using an existing earlier, but more complicated method). I have just read the release notes of systemd 219 and I am very eager to try it as soon as it lands in the Gentoo repository, since it provides many new features that make life much easier for me.
That is how they "got me". Now, I have to ask, how much of systemd have you evaluated?

brianL 02-17-2015 06:04 AM
We didn't have global warming before systemd came along. ;)

Gerard Lally 02-17-2015 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD (Post 5318624)
So, how much do you think they pay me? Or how else do you think they "got me onside"? Also, how much anti-systemd posts exactly do you think have been censored on this page?
As I have said earlier, if my moderator status bothers you and you think it might damage LQ, its reputation or would even lead to a somehow censored LQ (despite the fact that I am not the only moderator here and something like that would be quickly discovered), I am willing to step back as moderator. That won't stop me from debating you, which would still be pretty easy, since you only present conspiracy theories that conveniently, due to their very nature, can't be backed up with actual facts.

Do you really want to know how they "got me onside" (if you followed my posts you would know that I was opposed to systemd in the beginning)? With sound arguments, with me evaluating it for my use cases and finding that it fits most of them very good (better than any other solution out there) for me, with providing useful functions that make my work easier (of course now some people will cry out loud how lazy I am for not using an existing earlier, but more complicated method). I have just read the release notes of systemd 219 and I am very eager to try it as soon as it lands in the Gentoo repository, since it provides many new features that make life much easier for me.
That is how they "got me". Now, I have to ask, how much of systemd have you evaluated?
Instead of regaling us with all these new features systemd has why don't you just name them and tell us specifically what they do for you that can't be done equally well as it stands, without systemd? I'd like to know if it's worth my while investing dwindling energy and precious time in this thing. Naming these "new features that make life much easier" for you will persuade me of its value a whole lot faster than simply extolling its virtues without ever telling us specifically what they are.

Gerard Lally 02-17-2015 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD (Post 5318623)
Are you really telling us that the cause for world wide economical collapse is not greedy bankers and corrupt politicians, but systemd and Docker?
So that's what I said, is it?

Some moderator you are.

If you have to twist my words to get them to mean something I never intended then don't bother trying to convince us of your impartiality and fairness. I suggested absurd decisions like the decisions being taken to railroad systemd and Docker in are the cause of businesses failing. Decisions like these decisions. Understood? Good. Don't twist my words again.

gor0 02-17-2015 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley (Post 5318635)
crux
speechless!

:doh:

TobiSGD 02-17-2015 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley (Post 5318634)
Instead of regaling us with all these new features systemd has why don't you just name them and tell us specifically what they do for you that can't be done equally well as it stands, without systemd? I'd like to know if it's worth my while investing dwindling energy and precious time in this thing. Naming these "new features that make life much easier" for you will persuade me of its value a whole lot faster than simply extolling its virtues without ever telling us specifically what they are.
Read the release notes: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ry/028447.html
I am very interested in the improvements to systemd-networkd, systemd-nspawn and machinectl. They have improved to the point where I am thinking about moving from lxc and Docker to using systemd-nspawn instead for my work with containers.

Gerard Lally 02-17-2015 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD (Post 5318624)
As I have said earlier, if my moderator status bothers you and you think it might damage LQ, its reputation or would even lead to a somehow censored LQ (despite the fact that I am not the only moderator here and something like that would be quickly discovered), I am willing to step back as moderator. That won't stop me from debating you, which would still be pretty easy, since you only present conspiracy theories that conveniently, due to their very nature, can't be backed up with actual facts.
salparadise's post was far from a conspiracy theory. It was a moderate assessment of what small cliques do to ensure their power grab takes hold. Ridicule the dissenters and belittle their opinions by dismissing them as conspiracy theories. Something you've just been guilty of. You wanted facts? There's your first.

brianL 02-17-2015 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gor0 (Post 5318638)
speechless!

:doh:
Wish you were.

TobiSGD 02-17-2015 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley (Post 5318634)
Instead of regaling us with all these new features systemd has why don't you just name them and tell us specifically what they do for you that can't be done equally well as it stands, without systemd? I'd like to know if it's worth my while investing dwindling energy and precious time in this thing. Naming these "new features that make life much easier" for you will persuade me of its value a whole lot faster than simply extolling its virtues without ever telling us specifically what they are.
Read the release notes: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ry/028447.html
I am very interested in the improvements to systemd-networkd, systemd-nspawn and machinectl. They have improved to the point where I am thinking about moving from lxc and Docker to using systemd-nspawn instead for my containers. Want to have more examples?

Gerard Lally 02-17-2015 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gor0 (Post 5318638)
speechless!
Good. I hope it stays that way.

Gerard Lally 02-17-2015 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL (Post 5318646)
Wish you were.
haha! You got there before me!

;-)


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