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Old 10-04-2018, 06:25 AM   #76
elcore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
The above are functional reasons that I don't want pulseaudio on my system and I recognize that not only do those issues not affect the average listener, those with onboard audio chips, commonly not having hardware mixing, will find pulse quite beneficial.
I fit in this onboard integrated chip category, and I disagree. What I do is simply plug analog output into external amplifier input. Single output and single input, no mixing.
There's no benefit in hosting a useless daemon, linking a useless library, and force loading HDMI modules where HDMI is an empty slot. None at all.
 
Old 10-04-2018, 12:14 PM   #77
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Thank you, elcore. Previously I've only heard from onboard-integrated chip owners who seem pleased with the convenience of pulse. I'm glad to hear from someone who recognizes that convenience can be costly and often not worth that cost. I'm pretty convinced pulseaudio's claws have sunk so deep it will never happen but I'd be happy to see it scrapped and disappear to be replaced by something like a modified Jack that is far less invasive. What a royal pita.
 
Old 10-04-2018, 03:01 PM   #78
Richard Cranium
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Back in ALSA days, I'd set up my desktop to either go to the USB headset or to the external speakers. It was such a monumental PITA to switch between the two that I stopped trying to make it happen. Now, I can switch between the two outputs at will. (But ALSA worked just fine when I used a single output device.)

@enorbet, I can see why latency during audio/video editing would bring the red curtain of blood due to the level of frustration that would bring.
 
Old 10-05-2018, 03:28 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Thank you, elcore. Previously I've only heard from onboard-integrated chip owners who seem pleased with the convenience of pulse. I'm glad to hear from someone who recognizes that convenience can be costly and often not worth that cost.
I think if there was just a daemon routing I/O then I would be neutral, it would not concern me.
But the library having to link with everything seems very intrusive. Almost like aircraft engineers deciding wings aren't tested enough so they bolt them on all the cars and boats.
Technically it's progress, but what good does it do in the garage, or a tunnel, or under the overpass? Does it mean every one of those structures will have to bend?
Excuse the blunt comparison, but that's how I see it.
 
Old 10-07-2018, 03:30 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Back in ALSA days, I'd set up my desktop to either go to the USB headset or to the external speakers. It was such a monumental PITA to switch between the two that I stopped trying to make it happen. Now, I can switch between the two outputs at will. (But ALSA worked just fine when I used a single output device.)

@enorbet, I can see why latency during audio/video editing would bring the red curtain of blood due to the level of frustration that would bring.
Now I'm curious. Did you ever try JACK?
 
Old 10-07-2018, 03:45 PM   #81
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
I think if there was just a daemon routing I/O then I would be neutral, it would not concern me.
But the library having to link with everything seems very intrusive. Almost like aircraft engineers deciding wings aren't tested enough so they bolt them on all the cars and boats.
Technically it's progress, but what good does it do in the garage, or a tunnel, or under the overpass? Does it mean every one of those structures will have to bend?
Excuse the blunt comparison, but that's how I see it.
I have no interest in rekindling the huge flame wars that broke out when systemd hit the scene and I'm hoping that since Mr. Poettering has freely noted his major fondness for OSX that while recognizng freedesktop is responsible for a very large block of software, nobody will get offended if I say that I now think it is prudent for anyone who actually believes that software should do one thing, do it well, and be able to be piped (NOT kick everything else to the curb) to be cautious. Lennart seems to like "taking over" and I for one, resent it and don't want it. I still do actually prefer collaborative Bazaar over monolithic Cathedral.

I just installed Current to hard drive 2 days ago and the Pure Alsa option worked perfectly. Naturally I still had to blacklist Intel HDA to avoid issues with ALSA being confused by three cards (onboard and embedded in graphics card in addition to my Juli@) but I am flirting with the idea of playing with JACK to manage all 3 like Pulse does and be able to unblock Intel HDA. JACK does have some unfriendly terminology (like "sinks") but once set up properly it has always been effective, unobtrusive, certainly non-invasive and solid. Wish me luck. I may need it :P
 
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:46 PM   #82
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Would you be able to use Bluetooth headphones after removing PA? I know that PA was introduced because of BlueZ: https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/pul...e-current-beta. I use Bluetooth headphones with BlueZ and PA and they work very well. I found this https://github.com/Arkq/bluez-alsa but it's not included in pure-alsa-system.
 
Old 10-07-2018, 08:21 PM   #83
orbea
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Originally Posted by average_user View Post
Would you be able to use Bluetooth headphones after removing PA? I know that PA was introduced because of BlueZ: https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/pul...e-current-beta. I use Bluetooth headphones with BlueZ and PA and they work very well. I found this https://github.com/Arkq/bluez-alsa but it's not included in pure-alsa-system.
http://slackbuilds.org/repository/14...es/bluez-alsa/
 
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:03 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I have no interest in rekindling the huge flame wars...
Are you seriously trying to blame me for adding fuel to the flame, even though I had it removed months before 14.2 was released, while you did nothing but rant about it for 2 years?
That's not fair man, it was you who kept on flaming about pulseaudio and doing nada, until the day pure-alsa packages appeared in -current. I recompiled, and then moved on.
And I've no interest whatsoever in pulse developers, or flaming them, or calling them out by name, or attempting to discredit them. If you're going to accuse me, you better find some evidence.
 
Old 10-08-2018, 03:37 PM   #85
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
Are you seriously trying to blame me for adding fuel to the flame, even though I had it removed months before 14.2 was released, while you did nothing but rant about it for 2 years?

That's not fair man, it was you who kept on flaming about pulseaudio and doing nada, until the day pure-alsa packages appeared in -current. I recompiled, and then moved on.
And I've no interest whatsoever in pulse developers, or flaming them, or calling them out by name, or attempting to discredit them. If you're going to accuse me, you better find some evidence.
Ho-o-o-ooold on thar Baba Looey... what? Bad day? How did you interpret blaming anyone from my post? More importantly, where did you get the idea that I "kept on flaming about pulseaudio and doing nada, until the day pure-alsa packages appeared in -current" when even before I started that thread (which I don't see as flaming at all, just preference) I had already minimised pulse's role and reduced that even further through the help I received on that thread.

So again... where do you get "accuse"? Bro I thanked you. Maybe things haven't settled down enough yet and it was my bad for even bringing up Lennart's name since possibly his name still bring's on Pavlovian knee jerk reactions but it seems to me Linus has no problem "calling a spade a spade". Kriminy!

Bottom Line - I still thank you for your original comment which I agree with. I don't hate Lennart or freedesktop but I am aware and cautious about how they seem to work. I do actually hate pulseaudio FOR ME. That's it. My remark about "rekindling" was actually to try to de-fuse any larger reaction than caution IN GENERAL and was not directed at anyone, certainly not you. Different strokes Bro. If I was less than clear then you have my sincere apology. I don't do guile.

Last edited by enorbet; 10-08-2018 at 03:41 PM.
 
Old 10-08-2018, 05:04 PM   #86
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How did you interpret blaming anyone from my post?
By quoting the post in full, and starting with ~ "I have no interest in igniting that flame again" it appears that you consider the post inflammatory.
And since I'm to blame for the post, you're indirectly accusing me of flaming. But don't worry about it, I'm joking about most things most of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
More importantly, where did you get the idea that I "kept on flaming about pulseaudio..
You did rant at least once, in every pulseaudio thread. I admit I posted some annoying comments about it, but not nearly as many as you did.

I must say thanks to upstream for the extra/ though, it's cool that it's supported, even if I don't personally use the binaries.
 
Old 10-08-2018, 05:21 PM   #87
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
I must say thanks to upstream for the extra/ though, it's cool that it's supported, even if I don't personally use the binaries.
Indeed.
 
Old 10-09-2018, 02:04 AM   #88
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
By quoting the post in full, and starting with ~ "I have no interest in igniting that flame again" it appears that you consider the post inflammatory.
And since I'm to blame for the post, you're indirectly accusing me of flaming. But don't worry about it, I'm joking about most things most of the time.
Well then it does appear I was less than clear as I meant it in a general fashion as a preface for what I was about to add but as promised you have my sincere, heartfelt apolgy since in no way did I mean to even give you a friendly elbow jab let alone turn on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
You did rant at least once, in every pulseaudio thread. I admit I posted some annoying comments about it, but not nearly as many as you did.
I freely admit to ranting then and continue to now and I think deservedly so. Especially for a piece of software that does so little it seems to me absurd that it is so ridiculously hard to option out of. I just don't see that as "flaming" since that carries an implication of unjustified or frivolous. Actually I was far more disturbed by your stating I did nothing about it 'cus frankly I worked my ass off on that damned thing on a regular basis and for a very long time, thus the hatred and ranting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
I must say thanks to upstream for the extra/ though, it's cool that it's supported, even if I don't personally use the binaries.
Absolutely agreed and we are not alone in this as there are now others posting that they have tried to use the example to apply it to 14.2 and,so far, nobody I have seen has completely rid 14.2 of this "disease". I managed to get it down to having a few pulse libraries hanging around "suspended in space" even before the Pure Alsa for Current came out (iirc I owe bassmadrigal and cwizardone substantial thanks for help and insight on that score) so it never loads. The pulseaudio package in removed excepting just a few libraries I kept to satisfy calls that go nowhere. Yeah it's dirty but it works. I am really excited about how v15 is shaping up. Current already is very clean and sweet.
 
Old 10-10-2018, 07:34 PM   #89
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Now I'm curious. Did you ever try JACK?
I believe I did at one point but was not able (or unwilling to spend the time) to get it to work. I have no doubt that my sound config was severely fouled up by then and I was willing to leave things alone when my system was able to produce sound somewhere.
 
Old 10-11-2018, 10:03 AM   #90
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Adding the link from the other pure-alsa-thread in the event anyone else encounters the KDE app issue. Thanks again Pat for this viable alternative.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...em-4175639807/
 
  


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