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Old 08-19-2018, 01:34 PM   #16
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
back to alsa? what a joke. Attach an HDIM monitor and stream the sound to it.
not possible without restarting a lot of things with alsa? ont a use case for you?

seriously, I do not know how those people that claim that pulse does not work for them have fucked up their system, maybe some manual configuration, than omg it does not work, back to alsa, and being happy that the one app they use produces some sound.
seriously, the whole world is using pulse without too many problems, and here we have a hand full of people not being able to do it because of ????

To the OP (and the others here to validate the value of the thread):
I have a t410s, so basically the same hardware, with Slackware 14.2 installed, 64 bit, no problem with sound at all in its default installation.
So this is obvious just an other self produced problem on the keyboard report rather than a alsa free system solved something that was never a problem.
You do realize that no, not one single pulseaudio system operates without ALSA, right? It sits on top of ALSA and comes at a cost of substantial latency not to mention added complexity.

I'm actually glad that Pulseaudio exists for those with crap onboard audio who listen through crappy monitor speakers but those of us who actually enjoy and utilize high quality audio find Pulse a net loss. It isn't "going back" if you mean "less functional" or "inferior" and certainly isn't a joke. It is the alteration of a hard dependency back to optional.

Everything that Pulse can do can be done with ALSA given a high quality, dedicated audio chipset that costs more than the piddly cheap stuff that comes onboard. I salute the removal of the penalty of Pulse that does me no good and degrades so much. This reminds me exactly of the whole WinModem debacle with the extremely important difference that WinModems were never dictated to be required or proper high quality hardware was rendered redundant and/or useless.
 
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:35 PM   #17
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
seriously, the whole world is using pulse without too many problems, and here we have a hand full of people not being able to do it because of ????
And why does this matter to you? I have no interest in justifying my choices to you when its clear your intention is hostile. Maybe you should post somewhere else if people with different software choices upsets you?

Also...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
 
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #18
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
It sits on top of ALSA and comes at a cost of substantial latency not to mention added complexity.
Probably you have ears of bat if you are able to detect some "latency" of milliseconds...

For everyone else not born with a sonar in the left and right of the head, I believe that PulseAudio is more than enough.
 
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:55 PM   #19
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
And why does this matter to you? I have no interest in justifying my choices to you when its clear your intention is hostile. Maybe you should post somewhere else if people with different software choices upsets you?

Also...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
What you people discuss here? I miss something or apparently I read that some suggests the removal of PulseAudio from Slackware?

Those things matter for me (and others), because we like PulseAudio, which simplify my life and others life.

And no, I have no bat ears to hear ultrasounds in intervals of milliseconds.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 08-19-2018 at 01:58 PM.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 02:11 PM   #20
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
I miss something or apparently I read that some suggests the removal of PulseAudio from Slackware?
Not at all! We didn't say that Pulse Audio should be removed from Slackware. We are talking about the welcome addition of Alsa back into Slackware for those end users who want to use Alsa.
 
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:12 PM   #21
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
What you people discuss here? I miss something or apparently I read that some suggests the removal of PulseAudio from Slackware?

Those things matter for me (and others), because we like PulseAudio, which simplify my life and others life.

And no, I have no bat ears to hear ultrasounds in intervals of milliseconds.
I'm not sure what you are talking about, I think its good the user can choose. Everyone is happy that way.
 
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:40 PM   #22
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
Probably you have ears of bat if you are able to detect some "latency" of milliseconds...

For everyone else not born with a sonar in the left and right of the head, I believe that PulseAudio is more than enough.
Latency is not a major issue in simple playback but it is in recording and even increasingly so in editing. This applies to pure audio tracks as well as those with video content. Since I do both that is a major issue and stumbling block for me that pure ALSA doesn't exhibit.

I don't know how much good hearing enters into it but apparently I am genetically blessed since I'm 72 years old and can still hear out to 17K (about 6db down though) despite having played, mixed, and/or recorded for more than two decades in loud electric bands. My soundcard cost over $125 USD and has hardware mixing and plays back through a ~1000 watt triamped system with 12 inch subwoofer, 8 inch mids, and phase-aligned ribbon tweeters. With my ears and that system I can indeed hear details others might miss but functionally latency is the bigger issue.

From my POV it isn't that Pulse isn't enough. It's that it is too much, offering benefits I can't use at a cost I can't abide.

NOTE: Events lasting mere microseconds and even taking place well above the range of human hearing create "ripples" that extend for much longer in time and much lower in frequency. For reference look up just one example in Transient Intermodulation Distortion.

Last edited by enorbet; 08-19-2018 at 02:45 PM.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 03:14 PM   #23
peumo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
back to alsa? what a joke. Attach an HDIM monitor and stream the sound to it.
not possible without restarting a lot of things with alsa? ont a use case for you?

seriously, I do not know how those people that claim that pulse does not work for them have fucked up their system, maybe some manual configuration, than omg it does not work, back to alsa, and being happy that the one app they use produces some sound.
seriously, the whole world is using pulse without too many problems, and here we have a hand full of people not being able to do it because of ????

To the OP (and the others here to validate the value of the thread):
I have a t410s, so basically the same hardware, with Slackware 14.2 installed, 64 bit, no problem with sound at all in its default installation.
So this is obvious just an other self produced problem on the keyboard report rather than a alsa free system solved something that was never a problem.
Well, there are plain pulseaudio users and anti pulseaudio users; but I had never seen an anti-anti-pulseaudio user, I'll give you that.

In all these eternal arguments, I have never seen anyone changing their mind, being convinced by others.

Last edited by peumo; 08-19-2018 at 08:56 PM.
 
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:07 AM   #24
a4z
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
And why does this matter to you? I have no interest in justifying my choices to you when its clear your intention is hostile. Maybe you should post somewhere else if people with different software choices upsets you?
if you remove the context of Jeebizz post, that you might look up, plus my hint that I have the same hardware with no problems at all, of course you can put whatever interpretation on my post that you like to. sad to see you using such communication tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
also,
what you refer to is therefore clearly applicable to your self.

What a nice, but hostile communication tactic from you.

and to the people like enorbet that think they hear the difference of a played sound file depending on if its on alsa direct, or on alsa via pulse, well, enorbet, for sure ....
but thanks for your technical explanation
 
Old 08-20-2018, 09:32 AM   #25
twy
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For playback only, not recording or doing any professional audio work, I am enjoying having pulseaudio (pa) in slackware.

I especially like the PulseAudio Volume Control. It is now much easier to change audio output device between hdmi and spdif, for switching between low-powered audio on my TV or high-powered audio on my stereo. Before pulseaudio was added, I had to change audio output devices with little scripts in my ~/bin directory that used sed to change some lines in ~/.asoundrc, which was really a big mess! Changing output device while audio is already playing also works, which didn't before.

There have been other prior sound daemons in the past, like enlightened sound daemon (esd) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_Sound_Daemon], but I am not sure why pa is so successful while esd has now been dropped. I guess pa finally did the job right, or much better somehow.
 
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:25 AM   #26
orbea
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@a4z, this forum is not your platform for flaming, we all know you can do better. Please do or find somewhere else to be hostile.
 
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:25 AM   #27
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
and to the people like enorbet that think they hear the difference of a played sound file depending on if its on alsa direct, or on alsa via pulse, well, enorbet, for sure ....
but thanks for your technical explanation
Just FTR I specifically said playback is not a big issue. It's about recording and editing... that and the more important issue of options and choice instead of hard dependency coercion. If you need to dismiss my highly experienced information as "party time" to make yourself feel as if your ears and training are as discerning as everyone else's and that cheap, noisy, built-in audio chipset through cheap, tiny, afterthought monitor speakers is "good enough" well hey... whatever twirls ur beanie. Some people actually imagine 8-Track car decks and mp3s sound as good as direct-to-disc masters.

Last edited by enorbet; 08-20-2018 at 10:27 AM.
 
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:37 AM   #28
hitest
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
@a4z, this forum is not your platform for flaming, we all know you can do better. Please do or find somewhere else to be hostile.
Agreed. This thread celebrates the freedom that Pat gives us to set-up sound. Thank you, Pat!
When Slackware 15.0 is released we can use Pulse Audio or Alsa. It's all good.
 
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:16 AM   #29
a4z
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Originally Posted by orbea View Post
@a4z, this forum is not your platform for flaming, we all know you can do better. Please do or find somewhere else to be hostile.
neither is it your trolling place, even if you think you need to run a personal crusade against me.
You are just OT, out of context and just do claims. No content at all.
It becomes more and more obvious that you just post to attack me with allegation, no idea why you think it is a good idea to be so offensive, but please stop this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Just FTR I specifically said playback is not a big issue. It's about recording and editing... that and the more important issue of options and choice instead of hard dependency coercion. If you need to dismiss my highly experienced information as "party time" to make yourself feel as if your ears and training are as discerning as everyone else's and that cheap, noisy, built-in audio chipset through cheap, tiny, afterthought monitor speakers is "good enough" well hey... whatever twirls ur beanie. Some people actually imagine 8-Track car decks and mp3s sound as good as direct-to-disc masters.
so far you did not bring any "highly experienced information", but more a flame and a somehow ridiculous winmodem comparison.

anyway, remember, my original post was a reaction of a problem description I could not reproduce on the same hardware, and a post of Jeebizz who asked if the next release will be easier to go completely free of pulse-audio.
but continue ignoring this if it helps you with attacking me. you 2, orbea and enorbet ignoring kindly my post just to run your stupid personal attacks. maybe you need to let out your frustration? well, feel free to do so. if you need this to feel better ....I subscribe now from this thread
 
Old 08-20-2018, 11:22 AM   #30
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
neither is it your trolling place, even if you think you need to run a personal crusade against me.
You are just OT, out of context and just do claims. No content at all.
It becomes more and more obvious that you just post to attack me with allegation, no idea why you think it is a good idea to be so offensive, but please stop this.
There is no crusade, I responded out to from respect not malice. The attitude problem is yours and I think you would be a much better poster if didn't have to bring your bad vibes wherever you went. Please consider this as friendly advice and not flaming or trolling.
 
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