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Old 11-05-2013, 12:13 AM   #31
Kallaste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMaverick9 View Post
And this comment is exactly the reason why we should and need to have a discussion about it now.

From Pat's comment, I conclude that Pat has already made up his mind. And once we have reached the point where Pat is making the switch, it will be too late to have a discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMaverick9 View Post
@ReaperX7

Sorry - but that is not what he wrote. He wrote:

"Save it for when we switch to systemd."

If he is looking into it, he would've written:

"Save it for if we switch to systemd."
Didn't you see the wink at the end of that sentence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi

Let's not have another one of those threads, OK? Save it for when we switch to systemd.
Such a wink usually means to not to take what was said too seriously, as in to not flip completely out over it. So it's probably okay to calm down a bit.

If you really want a huge systemd debate, there are some here and here.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 12:18 AM   #32
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMaverick9 View Post
@ReaperX7

Sorry - but that is not what he wrote. He wrote:

Save it for when we switch to systemd.
While maybe grammatically correct, I would not read so much certainty into it.

Of course, only Pat knows what he was thinking when he typed that sentence, but I take it more in the spirit of, "We can cross that bridge when we come to it.", not to indicate that he has any particular plans to do so.

On the other hand, I am sure that Pat is keeping up with his and our options with regard to systemd, if only because it will cerainly affect Slackware if it continues its anticipated path... lots of "if"s in that sentence!
 
Old 11-05-2013, 01:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teho View Post
Quote:
I do hope Debian decides for systemd. It's important for running KWin on top of Wayland and if Debian as a base would not provide this i would be forced to switch distros. Arch seems to be very popular among kde devs nowadays...
It's largely irrelevant, if Linux "desktop environment" developers create hard dependencies on 0pointer software, because almost nobody uses their software. What the KWin developer likes and what he likes not and if he's forced to switch distributions or whatever, who the f* cares?

I don't see Apache, BIND, PHP, MySQL, OpenSSL, OpenSSH, Samba developers (their software is in wide-spread use) switch to systemd anytime soon. That's good enough for me.

Quote:
It seems that more and more distributions are moving to systemd (Mageia, Arch Linux, Fedora, openSUSE, RHEL, SEL, Sabayon, Nux, Chakra, Frugware, Tanglu...) and even more are considering it, most importantly Debian so I don't see where this comes from.
Additionally I don't care the least for what these hundreds of distributions I never heard of do. They come and go, I'm just not interested. Your "the others do it too, you must comply" FUD strategy doesn't work here.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 01:38 AM   #34
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For those who claim that systemd is well documented, fine. I guess there are those who are contend with one liners documentation. The coding (formatting) is bad and that is a fact go read the source and you will know what i'm talking about.

I am speaking from experience. I ran systemd on fedora for 2 months and it kept freezing for no good reasons. I have to reboot my system to recover. I nvr have this problem when I run slackware on the same system.

As for those who doesn't know how crappy systemd is, check out the zero day exploits here. To date, still no patch available.

I am not making a baseless bias claim against it. I gave up slackware for fedora, briefly. Yes, I was enticed by the slightly faster boot time as well as the integration with plymouth. but after 2 months, no. just NO. I am sticking with slackware for good. It may not have the red herring that other distros have, but at least it is a highly stable and usable system. that's what counts in the end.

Looking at the way they structure systemd (if there's any at all) i think they will have a very very VERY hard time fixing all the bugs in this frankenstein.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 01:51 AM   #35
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and just for the record, Poettering would prefer not to be told that his doing a bad job.

"It should be obvious but in case it isn't: the opinions reflected here are my own. They are not the views of my employer, or Ronald McDonald, or anyone else.

Please note that I take the liberty to delete any comments posted here that I deem inappropriate, off-topic, or insulting. And I excercise this liberty quite agressively. So yes, if you comment here, I might censor you. If you don't want to be censored you are welcome to comment on your own blog instead.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"

The above is extracted from http://0pointer.de/blog
 
Old 11-05-2013, 02:08 AM   #36
Didier Spaier
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This thread's reading is becoming increasingly boring, as expected and as occurred with its ancestors.

And in my opinion it won't influence Pat's decisions about future of Slackware.
 
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:11 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
This thread's reading is becoming increasingly boring, as expected and as occurred with its ancestors.
Of course, there are no real news to discuss regarding this topic.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 02:19 AM   #38
Ongbuntu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
This thread's reading is becoming increasingly boring, as expected and as occurred with its ancestors.

And in my opinion it won't influence Pat's decisions about future of Slackware.
Perhaps it is, but i still choose to believe that our opinions matter.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 03:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
This thread's reading is becoming increasingly boring, as expected and as occurred with its ancestors.
When someone names that which must not be named there is no other outcome. Best to paint it pink and stick a SEP field generator right on top of it.
 
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:24 AM   #40
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I think there's a soon farewell to both old init scripts and X11. As a desktop user I don't hate systemd. It actually makes automatic use out of all this crap we have in the kernel like cgroups so you should get better priority on your running processes.

Wayland should also be a lot better than X, but I'm slightly taken back by the fact that we're replacing the legendary 25 year old X Window System with something called WAYLAND. What does that even mean? Wayland. No one could come up with a better name?
 
Old 11-05-2013, 05:26 AM   #41
teho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
It's largely irrelevant, if Linux "desktop environment" developers create hard dependencies on 0pointer software, because almost nobody uses their software.
It's relevant for the people who want to use Linux as their desktop now and in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
Additionally I don't care the least for what these hundreds of distributions I never heard of do. They come and go, I'm just not interested. Your "the others do it too, you must comply" FUD strategy doesn't work here.
I was responding to your claim that:

Quote:
Nobody has to and almost nobody will use it, just as before.
Not trying to convert anyone here. I'd be suprised if you hadn't heard of RHEL and its derivates CentOS, Scientific Linux, Oracle Linux... and SUSE Linux Enterprise though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
I don't see Apache, BIND, PHP, MySQL, OpenSSL, OpenSSH, Samba developers (their software is in wide-spread use) switch to systemd anytime soon. That's good enough for me.
Well obviously there isn't need for every kind of software to depend on systemd. In the server side containerization software can and do take use of systemd functionality though and they are widely used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ongbuntu
I am speaking from experience. I ran systemd on fedora for 2 months and it kept freezing for no good reasons. I have to reboot my system to recover. I nvr have this problem when I run slackware on the same system.
...and you concluded that this had anything to do with systemd how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ongbuntu
As for those who doesn't know how crappy systemd is, check out the zero day exploits here. To date, still no patch available.
According to the bug reports, three out of the four exploits only affect Fedora 17 or older that has reached end of life and the only one that affected the still maintained version of Fedora has been fixed. Nice try at FUD though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ongbuntu
The coding (formatting) is bad and that is a fact go read the source and you will know what i'm talking about.
So what makes it bad?
 
Old 11-05-2013, 07:47 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teho View Post

So what makes it bad?
why don't you ask google? I'm not the first and definitely not going to be the last.
systemd.png
 
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:00 AM   #43
Ongbuntu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teho View Post

So what makes it bad?
When a ton of people are telling you that systemd has BIG issues, perhaps you should really look inwards and ask yourself why (I'm assuming that you are somehow related to the development of systemd), instead of disregarding all criticism and labeling naysayers as lunatic or uncivilised.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 08:05 AM   #44
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
And in my opinion it won't influence Pat's decisions about future of Slackware.
The BDFL continues to chart a true course for Slackware. Pat never lets us down; I trust him.
 
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:33 AM   #45
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I'm going to keep following this thread this system D thing gets people all fired up
 
  


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