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Old 05-19-2006, 08:14 AM   #16
onebuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syg00
Given the fact that the PCI bus is so slow, and (apparently) your active working set is large, is 64-bit kernel with *large* RAM not a better option ???.
Keeping more of the working set in storage,and kswapd out of the picture at all might be the aim.
As alway, there will be "depends" - depends on the application, depends on the money, ...
Hi,

Yes, the working model for a 64-bit and large ram would be ideal.

Yet, most of what has been spoken about was for the general uses area. A memory card or ram disk would also provide the nonvolatile option necessary for permanent storage since the cards have a battery for backup.

Actually the kernel does fairly well in the working set of the swap area. Generally the user doesn't always set the parameters to the optimum point when attempting to tweak. Therefore the defaults would be better left set for most users.
 
Old 05-19-2006, 03:01 PM   #17
Old_Fogie
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Hi All,

Thank you for all the posts. They've really helped me to understand what's going on here. I'm glad I asked the question and didn't just dive right in to those 'how-to's' that I see on the internet for tweaking swap, or ruin my flash cards. Just goes to show be careful of the advice you follow.

Swap file usage is so interesting how it works on the various age group of slack computers I have here.

On my old laptop that I use just to surf wireless on the net (thanks Eric) the swap get's used alot. It's 96mb ram with a 300 Mhz AMD KD proc. It's using Slack 10.2. I'm judging this based on the little graph that is in Xfce. This hard drive has allways been really slow. I only get hdparm speeds of about 40 mbs to give you an idea.

Now on my other computer which is overclocked to the gills, amd2500 @ 3200 speeds 400 FSB dual channel and 2/512mb ram totaling 1 gig I don't think I've even seen the swap file ever get used - Since I followed Eric's advice on the high memory settings when I compiled my kernel. Before I did that setting, I did notice swap file use on the same pc. Now it's much faster (thanks again Eric) Now I've tried to force the pc to use swap more as a test by telling Unreal Tournament 2004 to use 512 mb ram of system memory and I barely saw a line in the graph in the Kprocess. That pc has 7200 rpm drives at ATA/133 speeds.

So it looks like if Linux see's a lot of ram, and a newer kernel is config'd right to use the large amounts of ram that may be present in 'newer' computers, it almost ignores the swap as much as possible for the typical desktop environment use.

Now I've read that servers need a lot of swap in raid arrays for throughput. I wonder if I should do that on an older pc that I use here as a big file storage pc. I just turn it on back up to it and shut it down over the lan. I have four hard ata/166 7200 rpm drives in their w/ 256 mb ram. Maybe then when I read and write to it the throughput will be much faster.

But a nice point of mention about my file storage pc, it uploads and downloads faster over my lan than my fastest computer running in Windows XP mode. I cannot believe it. In windows network traffic draws a much higher CPU load than windows, I truly see why linux has been such a main-stay in the server market now that I've seen it for myself. If I try and send a 650 meg image file from one xp box to another both of them get into 80% cpu load range, whereas if I boot those pc's into linux and do it, I can run an application on anyone of those computers withouth a hickup or noticeable performance drop. It's truly amazing.
 
Old 05-19-2006, 05:31 PM   #18
raska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Fogie
....Since I followed Eric's advice on the high memory settings when I compiled my kernel. Before I did that setting, I did notice swap file use on the same pc. Now it's much faster (thanks again Eric)....
please let us know which settings are those, at least point me in the right way
 
Old 05-19-2006, 05:35 PM   #19
Alien Bob
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That would have been this thread, which I later re-wrote into this Wiki page: http://alien.slackbook.org/dokuwiki/...kernelbuilding.

Eric
 
Old 05-19-2006, 07:35 PM   #20
Bjerrk
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How come you're all talking about swap files?
Swap partitions are faster, one should think.
 
Old 05-19-2006, 07:45 PM   #21
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No difference for a *long* time.
However - given this is a Slack forum, and Pat still used to ship 2.4 when I last tried Slack, it might be an issue for some.

The term is being used generically here - substitutue "swapspace" if you prefer.
 
Old 05-19-2006, 08:05 PM   #22
cwwilson721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Fogie
But a nice point of mention about my file storage pc, it uploads and downloads faster over my lan than my fastest computer running in Windows XP mode. I cannot believe it. In windows network traffic draws a much higher CPU load than windows, I truly see why linux has been such a main-stay in the server market now that I've seen it for myself. If I try and send a 650 meg image file from one xp box to another both of them get into 80% cpu load range, whereas if I boot those pc's into linux and do it, I can run an application on anyone of those computers withouth a hickup or noticeable performance drop. It's truly amazing.
Just goes to show what an OS designed from the start as 'Multi-tasking' and 'Multi-user' has over a reworked OS trying to sqeeze those same features into a codebase that was not designed to work that way.

That is where you see the 'speed', Linux/GNU was designed to run multiple processes at the same time, from the first line of code that was written, while all the Windows variants were not, and will never be 'true multi-taskers' without getting rid of all the current code and starting from scratch (like that is going to happen).

And, as if that was not enough, users are also the reason for the above. Why?

Let us say you have a Windows issue with "LAN transfers of files are loading my CPU's to 80% on server and client. What can be done?". Answer: Nothing. Or buy ZZZZ Softwares' XZoom LAN. Microsoft is not going to listen to you. And since it is "closed source", Bob can't rewrite the code to improve it. You're at the mercy of the company "Who knows what you want"

Now, let us say you have a Linux issue with "LAN transfers of files are loading my CPU's to 80% on server and client. What can be done?".
You will get a "Something isn't right" answer, and then the code will be fixed (assuming a code based boo-boo). The advantage to open source: Anybody can, and many do, change it. Improve it. Because you asked and said something.

Oh, well, that was my
 
Old 05-20-2006, 04:01 AM   #23
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It's amazing how many things just work in linux and come for free and are
better than store bought / vendor items.

Take a simple program like "cfdisk". It makes partitions in a split second.

But now I am truly starting to see why Linux has a hard time "being on the desktop".

It's the collusion in the pc community. Not the linux side obviously.

You know, not one network card in the stores say linux when the work with madwifi and it's already open sourced.

hp does not even say linux compatible on it's boxes in stores, or in magazines I get.

wouldnt you if you made something for the masses try and differentiate your products by saying that you even include linux?

I'm trying to get friends to switch over to linux and the first thing they
say is "oh but I cant do MS word" ...my answer is OMFG is someone putting subliminal messages in screen flickers? It's like they are all brainwashed buffoons!@

They tell everyone it's not my crappy software, it's the hackers so go talk to zonelabs.

Yeah your pc crashes go talk to symantec.

Yeah the spyware is script kiddies go talk to spybot. Every thing wrong with windows is actually due to others, not M$ ; or so they've pulled the magic of convincing the world to believe.

But they have a fix they say, a new version coming soon to a store near you for
wall street to love! "Now you need Vista because it's safer...well for now. And you need a new video card so we can give you our version of windowsblinds. And you need a faster
computer to run our auto-update, windows defender,zonealarm, norton antivirus, spybot, adaware, and pest partrol. And you'll need a new MS office version as it wont run on this new version. And all of your old hardware, well we'll have some stripped down form of support for it in our new OS but you'd really be better off buying a windows vista scanner or printer for the extra security. And did I mention, expect it to lock up your system until SP1 vista comes out. And oh yeah, we gonna confuse the hell out of you by putting a rating system on computers so you spend more and get less."

God I'm so tired of the upgrade schema and how they've pulled off convincing
everyone that they should pay to be safe and upgrade everything all the while being guinea pigs and suckerz.

Choice is so nice! But with the inherit collusion is today's computer industry
it's really not a surprise why Linux is having such a hard time. It's all about
the money.

Anyway thanks for hearing my roar! bye for now.

Last edited by Old_Fogie; 06-09-2006 at 11:02 PM.
 
Old 05-20-2006, 06:48 AM   #24
Alien Bob
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Amen!
Good rant, worthwhile read.

Eric
 
Old 05-20-2006, 11:38 PM   #25
Old_Fogie
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LOL TY Eric,

It's just, well, (pause & sigh), being so new to Linux, I'm just so amazed at how well it works on everything I use it on, brings out so many emotions. I know I probably sound like a broken record (if any of you guys remember those )

-I get mad and angry at M$ for well, as I explained.
-I get confused as to why the rest of the world does not hear our pleas and try this out for themselves, seeing is really believing.
-I get mad at myself for not doing this sooner.
-I get angry that I spent so much money in years past.
-I get P*ss3d OFF that I spent almost a decade learning an OS that is useless and there is no way to regain any of that time, money or effort or countless hours of valuable sleep.

I don't know if I should be angry or happy because of my move to Linux, as there are so many emotions going through me at once it's almost overwhelming.

Bye for now.

But maybe this is my honeymoon with Linux and it will all end, tho I doubt it almost every day I learn something new or get amazed at it doing something better than I'm used to.
 
Old 06-20-2006, 06:04 AM   #26
Old_Fogie
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Hi all,

Hey I know this an old thread, but as I get on in time here using slackware, I've been going through my threads so that I can create folders.

Well, anyway, as I was re-reading this thread; and as I'm getting a little better w/Linux stuff is starting to make some more sense.

Anyway...to make a long story short; I put swap on another partition on one of my old pc's and Holy Toledo! it's running so much faster. That pc is only 166hmz and it honestly runs, well at least double the speed it feels. It's so much more graphically faster too.

Anyway just wanted to say thanks.
 
Old 06-20-2006, 06:46 AM   #27
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i have noticed with increasing uptime, swap usage also increases.
 
Old 06-20-2006, 07:12 AM   #28
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Don't worry about it - probably just swapout of inactive anonymous pages.
Look at it this way;
- after (say) 5 hours, 0 swaps => swaprate = 0/sec average
- after (say) 2 days, 50000 swaps => swaprate = 0.29/sec average

When you see *really* big numbers, then start worrying.
 
Old 06-20-2006, 08:26 AM   #29
onebuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Fogie
It's amazing how many things just work in linux and come for free and are
better than store bought / vendor items.

Take a simple program like "cfdisk". It makes partitions in a split second.

But now I am truly starting to see why Linux has a hard time "being on the desktop".

It's the collusion in the pc community. Not the linux side obviously.

You know, not one network card in the stores say linux when the work with madwifi and it's already open sourced.

hp does not even say linux compatible on it's boxes in stores, or in magazines I get.

Hi,

The problem with vendors is the tie with M$! Companies like HP cannot safely state that LInux would be the better OS for the equipment. The legal bindings with M$ prevents this. Companies like Dell have the same problem but if you dig deep enough you find that they will sell you a system with Linux.

This is the same for peripherals for systems. The legal threats or possibilities of intimidation by M$ for recommending Linux exists. That has been the big stopping block for getting technical information to develop the drivers needed for the OS.

Hopefully now that Billy boy is getting away from the core management of M$, we will see a change. I won't bet the house on it changing dramatically since he still holds the reins.

Quote:
wouldnt you if you made something for the masses try and differentiate your products by saying that you even include linux?
As stated above, you would not survive the market! If you attempt to go against the base then you indeed will find the battle uphill.

If you look at the turn-key systems like RH the problem exists within the LInux community. Some people just need the hand holding. Insecurity can be used to secure your wealth! That is if you can sleep at night knowing that you are using someone to gain it.

The only M$ in my environment is used by my wife and that is necessary because of her employment. I won't even attempt to convert her to linux. I'm retired and M$ is no longer needed by me. I used M$ at the university because I had to. I used UNIX and Linux whenever I could but had to support M$ within the Labs.

I personally promote the use of Linux now. Yet there are people who think that M$ is the only way to go. Mainly because they will always follow the masses.
 
Old 06-20-2006, 11:09 PM   #30
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@syg00

nice info.thanks.
 
  


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