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Old 06-17-2020, 01:49 PM   #46
LuckyCyborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttk View Post
As an aside, note that there was a five-year gap between the release of RHEL 7 and RHEL 8 (which is not that unusual for RHEL). Nobody cries doom and gloom over RHEL's release schedule.
Yes, but honestly I would not even imagine to try to use at home as Plasma5 desktop a RedHat 8.0 High Availability Galera MySQL Database Server.

And, BTW...

What have in common Slackware with this RedHat 8.0 High Availability Galera MySQL Database Server which runs in a set of 256 server boxes, every one costing more than my car?

The init system, maybe?

Hello, people! This how they play, as an example: https://access.redhat.com/documentat...rhcs-intro-cso

It's just another league, far away from your place.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-17-2020 at 02:05 PM.
 
Old 06-17-2020, 01:57 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
Yes, but honestly I would not even imagine to try to use at home as Plasma5 desktop a RedHat 8.0 High Availability Galera MySQL Database Server.

And, BTW...

What have in common Slackware with this RedHat 8.0 High Availability Galera MySQL Database Server which runs in a set of 256 server boxes, every one costing more than my car?

The init system, maybe?
redhat enterprise linux is offered also as a distribution for desktop hosts, FYI (it ships with their own gnome, by default)...
 
Old 06-17-2020, 02:01 PM   #48
LuckyCyborg
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Originally Posted by ponce View Post
redhat enterprise linux is offered also as a distribution for desktop hosts, FYI (it ships with their own gnome, by default)...
And, likely an ultra-patched Firefox 3.6 ...

Believe or not, I have seen an enterprise desktop with my own eyes. And honestly it is not exactly my coup of tea.

However, before laughing at Tyson's friends, how about to beat first the kids from your own league, like is ... Kubuntu?

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-17-2020 at 02:17 PM.
 
Old 06-17-2020, 02:18 PM   #49
ponce
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I was answering to your question, "what have in common..." etc. I have no interest in distro comparisons.

this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttk View Post
Nobody cries doom and gloom over RHEL's release schedule.
still stands.
 
Old 06-17-2020, 02:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ponce View Post
this point still stands.
I believe that a multi-national huge company has hugely different needs for its office boxes than a home user.

The point is that the customers (or end-users) of RedHat and Slackware are absolutely different, then any comparation between them makes no sense.

To put in another way, what you people do is like me going at the local car dealer and asking why my brand new car is not shipped yet, and the clerk to try to explain me that also the tanks are shipped in a certain long period.

The point is: If I want to buy a new car, I expect to buy a good car, but not a tank able to resist at a nuclear bombing.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-17-2020 at 02:33 PM.
 
Old 06-17-2020, 02:34 PM   #51
ponce
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also this comparison (Slackware -> car, RHEL -> tank) is, IMHO, just your opinion, don't confuse opinions with facts.
I use Slackware in production since many years and, in practice, it has been much more rock-stable than RHEL, and *this* is a fact.
 
Old 06-17-2020, 02:38 PM   #52
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Having used Slackware and Red Hat since before RHEL existed, and having mostly worked with CentOS since 2008, I am familiar with the similarities and differences of the distributions.

Having built my share of high-availability clusters, I am quite comfortable comparing Slackware to RHEL. Each has some advantages and disadvantages over the other, but the difference in suitability is not as vast as LuckyCyborg suggests.

(It's relevant here to mention that The Internet Archive's second-generation petabytes-scale data cluster was almost built on Slackware, but we chose Debian for reasons which had nothing to do with technical suitability. Had we used Slackware, I have every confidence that it would have served fantastically.)

Drawing parallels between Red Hat's release cycle and Slackware's release cycle (while also keeping some important differences in mind, particularly regarding minor releases) is not unreasonable.

Last edited by ttk; 06-17-2020 at 02:48 PM.
 
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Old 06-17-2020, 02:44 PM   #53
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Whatever you guys believe, keep beating that RHEL horse...

Anyway, I just hope that the next release of Slackware with its new adopted PAM/Kerbers will be more adopted by companies.

BUT, also I really hope it to not become a challenger of RHEL and an Enterprise Solution, because I am a simple home user.

If I wanted an Enterprise OS at home, I already have in the wild that CentOS, which I do not use because of certain reasons.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-17-2020 at 03:07 PM.
 
Old 06-17-2020, 02:49 PM   #54
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Even it's initially installed kernel is not much behind Debian's Stable kernel (4.4.14 vs/ 4.19.0)
I agre with everything you wrote except for this. There is a VAST difference between a 4.4.x and a 4.19.x kernel (maybe you were thinking of the 14 in the 4.4 series compared to the 19 in the 4.19 series?). We're talking two LTS releases in between (4.9.x and 4.14.x) and 15 stable releases covering a span of 3 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by automaticjerk View Post
If PV were to say "f#ck it" and release what's in current right now as 14.3-rc1, how bad would it be?
Once everything with PAM gets ironed out, it would be fine except with a horribly outdated and EOL KDE4 and an out-of-date xfce, probably the two most popular DEs in Slackware.

I really think those are the only two big blockers, but they might be needing some additional dependencies added/updated to get them to where Pat wants the system to be before he starts putting out a beta or release candidates (I imagine he's looking into elogind, wayland, upower, and maybe a few others).

If we look back at 14.2's development cycle, he actually announced beta1 in the same changelog entry as introducing PulseAudio to the system. So I'm hoping we'll see something similar once Plasma5 and xfce 4.14 are added. The beta for 14.2 was released in January and the final stable release was done the end of June (with RCs starting in April). So if a similar pattern happens here, we can expect 5-6 months from the initial beta to final stable, so possibly by the end of the year if we get a beta relatively soon.

Last edited by bassmadrigal; 06-17-2020 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Switch Plasma5 to KDE4 - Thanks LuckyCyborg
 
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:17 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Once everything with PAM gets ironed out, it would be fine except with a horribly outdated and EOL Plasma5 and an out-of-date xfce, probably the two most popular DEs in Slackware.
You want probably to say: KDE4

I would argue if you will claim that Plasma5, i.e. KDE Plasma 5.19.1 (released just some days back) is kinda obsolete and I will invite you to build your own fresh Plasma5 from there: https://invent.kde.org/public/

I guess the alpha branches would be really fresh, no more than hours since last commits...

PS. Just kidding.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-17-2020 at 03:25 PM.
 
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:37 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.G.O.R View Post
Since many Slackware users already switched to -current and kind of accepted that Slackware now is de-facto rolling release
FWIW, I did switch to -current last year (because my new computer was way too recent for -14.2, the installer would not even boot), but I am emphatically not treating it as a “rolling release”.

What I do (and I am pretty sure I am not the only one) is to take a “snapshot” of -current at a given date, install it, and leave it like that for the next few months (upgrading only the packages marked as fixing a security issue). After a few months (typically 5 to 6), I take another snapshot, and I upgrade everything. I plan to repeat that procedure until such time as Slackware 15.0 is released.

In effect, I am basically creating my own “point releases”. You could say that I am running -14.4 right now.

That is to say, just because -current might look like a rolling-release distro does not mean that you have to use it like one.
 
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Old 06-17-2020, 04:03 PM   #57
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
If I wanted an Enterprise OS at home, I already have in the wild that CentOS, which I do not use because of certain reasons.
If Slackware isn't one, then why does it come with services like MariaDB and Apache?

Hate to tell you buddy, but you've been driving a tank!
 
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:37 PM   #58
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
You want probably to say: KDE4
Absolutely correct! Thanks for the correction! I've updated my post to reflect that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gouttegd View Post
What I do (and I am pretty sure I am not the only one) is to take a “snapshot” of -current at a given date, install it, and leave it like that for the next few months (upgrading only the packages marked as fixing a security issue).
Just a note, if you or for others aren't aware, security updates may require newer libraries than what might exist on your snapshot. It could lead to broken packages. Ultimately, it would depend on if any of the ABIs it uses were upgraded after your snapshot.

Probably not common, but definitely worth noting.
 
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Old 06-17-2020, 06:01 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Just a note, if you or for others aren't aware, security updates may require newer libraries than what might exist on your snapshot.
Indeed. That’s the one noticeable difference between using a released version and using a snapshot of -current. When I was using -14.2 (or all previous releases), I knew I could install any security updates without any second thoughts, whereas I am slightly more circumspect under -current.

That being said, as of now I have not run into any such issue.
 
Old 06-18-2020, 01:55 AM   #60
LuckyCyborg
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Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
If Slackware isn't one, then why does it come with services like MariaDB and Apache?

Hate to tell you buddy, but you've been driving a tank!
Hate to tell you buddy, but even Ubuntu or Linux From Scratch come with services like MariaDB and Apache...

https://packages.ubuntu.com/groovy/mariadb-server
https://packages.ubuntu.com/groovy/apache2

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs...r/mariadb.html
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs...er/apache.html

The MariaDB and Apache are shipped by everybody who does not go mini, and ONLY their presence does not transform them in Enterprise distributions, as you believe.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-18-2020 at 02:34 AM.
 
  


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