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-   -   So how would you persuade me to use Slackware? (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/so-how-would-you-persuade-me-to-use-slackware-4175643511/)

hazel 12-02-2018 12:24 PM

So how would you persuade me to use Slackware?
 
Most people here know my tastes. I'm a minimalist. I like simple (as in simplicity!) distros. I currently run Crux, Debian and LFS on my main machine and I don't need more than three distros but I am open to the possibility of replacing either Crux or Debian.

Crux is an old favourite of mine. Like Slack, it uses bsdinit and therefore boots very fast. It follows the KISS philosophy. But it's source-based and updating is becoming a burden as packages get steadily larger. For example, I now use the binary Firefox which Crux recently adopted as an alternative to local build, because the latter takes literally hours on my hardware and you have to have rust installed. The gimp also needs rust (to build librsvg) so I don't have that in Crux any more, or in LFS. That would be a possible reason to put Crux to rest and replace it with a binary distro.

In the case of Debian, it's the complexity of the system which increasingly worries me. Debian Stable was the first distro that I fell in love with, but that was a long time ago. Now of course it uses systemd and, while I'm not violently opposed to that (I quite like the speed with which it boots and shuts down), I'm very much aware of the additional complications it brings. The apt system is complicated too with its fragmented packages creating huge webs of dependency. Debian never uses one package where five will do! To be fair, the internal complexity of Debian hasn't caused me any problems so far, but I'm aware that it could do so one day.

So how would you sell Slackware to me as a replacement for either of these? How would it be better? Please keep in mind that I don't want KDE so I wouldn't be doing a full install. I hate big desktops. But presumably I could get Fluxbox or IceWM as a slackbuild?

Gordie 12-02-2018 12:54 PM

Just don't install KDE and you should be good to go. Fluxbox and Icewm are included already AFAIK.

Hope this helps

EDIT - IceWM is available as a SlackBuild. Fluxbox is already included

orbea 12-02-2018 12:55 PM

I wouldn't, I use Slackware because it works well and doesn't burden me with excess complexity or plastic wrapping. You should use what you find works best for you.

Lysander666 12-02-2018 01:01 PM

Speaking as an ex-Debianite, I have lived through some of your concerns. I also loved Debian, but I moved off it mainly because of systemd. I wasn't a fervent systemd hater, I only had two concerns, which were ethical and technical.

The first concern was to do with the fact that I just didn't trust it, I was suspicious of it, and seeing as it acts as userspace, that was a pretty big issue for me. Secondly, systemd would fail to load my ATI graphics drivers on boot sometimes, and the only way out was a hard reset. I also had been fascinated by Slackware for a long time, years, and was interested in putting the effort in to learn it.

In response to some of your other concerns:

Installing packages on Slackware - you can build from source or binaries, it's up to you. I personally build from source unless the package is a very complex one like Libre Office or Chromium. Both are built to expert standards by Eric here [AlienBob]. Updating the new versions is a breeze. Forum user ponce also creates many great binaries.

You may hear people say that manual dependency resolution on Slackware is a pain. It's really not. Slackbuilds tells you which dependencies you need, you just get on with it and install them individually. Tools like sbopkg help you keep track of their updates, or chain installation if you wish.

Boot speed - you may like the speed with which systemd boots but that's really a non-argument these days with advances in hardware. Even on my 32bit netbook Slackware boots up in less than a minute. Sure, systemd boots up in ten seconds or so, but it's a lot less stable than SysV - a slightly faster boot time is not worth the compromise in stability. I have never, ever had a failed boot in Slackware on any of my machines.

Stability - Slackware is by far the most stable OS I have ever used. No crashes, no hard locks. The only time something has gone wrong is because of something that I did. e.g. I installed something wrongly, didn't follow protocol, didn't understand the ramifications of what I was doing. Slackware forces you to learn and be responsible.

Community - we have a community of intelligent, articulate, seasoned professionals here. The Debian community is now a joke, replete with arguments, back-biting and advice from clueless users. The Slackware community is objective, patient and helpful. There is little chaff here. I personally find this forum to be one of the last bastions of intelligent comment on the internet, not just in the Linux community. Not only that, but you get to talk with those right at the top-end of development. It's a fascinating privilege.

Control - Slackware gives you total control over your system. You can remove, change and adapt absolutely anything. It will not assume anything for you. It will not tell you updates to packages are available because it won't assume you want to know. It thinks that if you care enough to use it, you can - and will - do that in your own time.

DEs/WMs- I don't use KDE either. I have a pretty beefy desktop machine and I use Xfce, it looks great and is highly stable and customisable. I also use LXDE on my netbook. You can use Flux or IceWM should you wish. There is a large variety of offer [Openbox, dwm, Blackbox, Windowmaker etc].

Finally, Slackware is the only distribution where I have been able to do everything I want. I don't feel I'm missing out or in need of something that only another distro can provide. I know that if I put the effort in, I can do it here. I don't even need to run multiple distros to learn from since I am continually learning through Slackware.

nodir 12-02-2018 01:03 PM

A distribution based on Slackware, for example Salix, might suit your needs better than Slackware itself, as it doesn't come with the (usual) Slackware approach to install everything and the kitchen sink.
(as mentioned above you seem to be able to make choices during installation, but without dependency checking that sure wasn't that much fun to me).
You will find lots of more applications at slackbuilds.org, but those are getting compiled too ( from what i understand it bothers you a bit).
I for one have come to like Void (not sure if it is really keep-it-simple, but sure more than debian, while else it offers quite some comfort, say binary packages).

Slackware sure is worth a shot, imho.

pan64 12-02-2018 01:17 PM

I have two comments:
1. I won't sell it to you. If you want to try, do that, but not because of me. Do that, because you are interested.
2. It is not [only] debian, but valid for all kind of systems: the complexity increases continuously.

hitest 12-02-2018 01:23 PM

I wouldn't try to convince you to use Slackware. It seems it is already too late for you as you are curious about it. Heh-heh. :)
I ran Debian back at 4.0; I used it for my computer lab in an elementary school when I was teaching. I run Debian from time to time; I am very fond of it.
Today I run Slackware and OpenBSD. Both operating systems are elegant, simple, secure, and they meet my needs.
I warn you that you may come to love Slackware if you give it a try. Nice to meet you, mate.

triode3 12-02-2018 01:28 PM

Convince yourself of which distro you want to use. What do you want to accomplish? What are you using the distro for?
How much time do you want to invest in the distro/configuration/setting it up for you, vs long term usage?

hazel 12-02-2018 01:29 PM

@nodir: I don't mind building a few packages. I've used slackbuilds before and they're pretty foolproof. I'm just getting tired of having to build everything (except on LFS, which is a special case, and even there I've dropped some packages that I had installed in earlier versions).

As far as missing dependencies are concerned, that can easily be fixed after installation; running a program from the terminal will broadcast the names of any missing libraries.

@Lysander666: I would miss not being notified about updates. I don't mind that in LFS because I rebuild the whole thing every six months or so, when the new book comes out, and any real security scares are notified on the mailing list. But istr there is a patch directory on the Slackware site that you can check for recent additions.

@triode3. I don't mind having to fiddle about with things a bit. Remember I am retired so I have plenty of time. What I need is a fairly small set of applications on a stable foundation.

Lysander666 12-02-2018 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5932560)

@Lysander666: I would miss not being notified about updates. I don't mind that in LFS because I rebuild the whole thing every six months or so, when the new book comes out, and any real security scares are notified on the mailing list. But istr there is a patch directory on the Slackware site that you can check for recent additions.

You can subscribe to the Slackware mailing list which will tell you when new updates to official packages are out. Slackbuilds are updated every Saturday [those which have updates, that is].

You can also check the changelogs:

http://www.slackware.com/changelog/
https://slackbuilds.org/ChangeLog.txt

I personally update about once a week, though I'm sure I could get away with leaving it for a lot longer.

RadicalDreamer 12-02-2018 01:46 PM

I use slackpkg+ to check the changelogs to see what new packages are available every few days for Slackware, Plasma 5, and multilib. I run sbopkg on Saturday to check for Slackbuilds updates.

Gerard Lally 12-02-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5932542)
Most people here know my tastes. I'm a minimalist. I like simple (as in simplicity!) distros.

I too am a minimalist. but it's important to distinguish storage minimalism and process minimalism. From a storage point of view, Slackware is far from minimalist. A full install leaves you with everything but the kitchen sink on disk. From a process point of view, however, running Fvwm or Fluxbox is about as minimalist as you can get. Run these window managers and you will see very little in htop to offend your eyes.

These days storage usage no longer matters, so I no longer fight Slackware to save space. A full install (minus f, kde and xfce), together with sbotools/sbopkg and slackpkg+, gives you everything you're likely to need on disk, with most software up-to-date. Not having to chase down libraries saves you many headaches. But you still have the benefit of knowing that a light window manager like Fvwm or Fluxbox (both included in a default install) means you can run a system light on resources. I think this is as good a compromise as you can get. Have all the software you're likely to need available to you, on disk, but run a light system - responsive, light on memory, light on the processor, and, importantly, perceptibly light as well. (KDE these days is light on memory, but in practice I still perceive KDE to be bloated.)

mrclisdue 12-02-2018 03:02 PM

If you opt for slackware, I'll donate $25 to Patrick.

cheers,

cwizardone 12-02-2018 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 5932561)
You can subscribe to the Slackware mailing list which will tell you when new updates to official packages are out. Slackbuilds are updated every Saturday [those which have updates, that is].

You can also check the changelogs:

http://www.slackware.com/changelog/
https://slackbuilds.org/ChangeLog.txt

I personally update about once a week, though I'm sure I could get away with leaving it for a lot longer.

The -current change log page is setup as the "home" page in my main browser and about once a day I either hit the button or click on the icon to see if there is anything new. Putting your e-mail address on the security mailing list is also a good idea.

BW-userx 12-02-2018 03:52 PM

So how would you [I] persuade me [you] to use Slackware?
get a bunch of monies, buy out every single distro out there then take them off the market, so the only distro left to use would be Slackware. :D

upnort 12-02-2018 03:56 PM

A fellow silver surfer. :)

The question has been asked before. A recent example that should provide answers similar to those you seek.

For myself, broadly speaking, for business owners I recommend something that is LTS. Most business owners focus on running a business and not on tinkering with computers. For them computers are tools, a means to an end and not an ideology. Slackware is not a strong candidate for such people. There have been a few threads in this forum about Slackware in the enterprise and the consensus opinion is Slackware falls short. Slackware could be an option in business but that is up to Pat if he wants to provide that foundation or at least encourage a derivative distro providing those foundations.

Broadly speaking, for non technical users I recommend something from the Ubuntu Long Term Support (LTS) line. Huge ecosystem and decent upstream support. Slackware typically is not a good fit for non technical users unless there is a Slackware devotee standing by to help. Even with an LTS distro, non technical people still need lots of help, almost always that means locally as the idea of obtaining help online is foreign to their way of thinking.

Broadly speaking, technical users have the skills to tinker and experiment. For technical users I recommend they use what they think they need. Experiment. Slackware might be a good fit and might not.

Based on your original post, you fall into the last category of users. You emphasize that you seek simplicity.

The definition of simplicity varies with usage needs. I can't convince you to use Slackware. Only you can do that after experimenting. I can share with you why I use Slackware, which includes my own definition of simplicity.

One of the elements I include in my definition of simplicity is the lack of dependency resolution. I long ago lost count of the times I wanted to introduce upstream packagers to the thick end of a baseball bat because of their outlandish dependency decisions when creating a package. The result is significant bloat. Slackware does not suffer from that nonsense but that also means the full burden of building all required packages falls on the user.

Side comments:

If you want to remain with Debian but not systemd, then tinker with Devuan.

While generally more knowledgeable about operating systems than within many other distros, a challenge with Slackware is most users demand RTFM skills. This can be intimidating for many new users. Along with that RTFM expectancy, as is true with any distro community, don't bad-mouth the distro within the forum. Hell hath no fury like a distro fan scorned. ;)

If you want some GUI admin tools then the stock Slackware is not a good fit. Instead try the Salix derivative. Salix is designed with a one-app-per-application focus, which reduces the kitchen sink challenge.

With respect to building packages, after I build and tweak Slackware to my needs, generally I don't bother updating third-party packages unless there is a broken feature or security update. That is, there is no need to play the bleeding edge game. I subscribe to the Slackware security and SBo mail lists. That keeps me informed of meaningful changes.

I support systemd systems at the job. systemd does not boot or power down faster. That is an illusion. Instead processes are launched in parallel. An example of this illusion is connecting NetworkManager. All systemd distros contain a service called systemd-networkd-wait-online.service. If there is no network connection then watch how that service delays the boot process. Another example is running systemd-analyze to expose the actual boot time. Therefore to me comparing boot and power down times are meaningless. That said, after I edit the default rc.d scripts to remove the conservative power down delays, I find Slackware boots and powers down fast enough. Moreso, I do not care for the idea of parallel booting, rebooting, and halting. I prefer a predictable order for booting, rebooting, and halting.

Caveat: if you want to dig deep into or have a business need for containers then Slackware might not be a prime choice. Container technology rests a lot now on systemd and those wanting container technology stick with such distros.

I haven't installed KDE in Slackware on a production system in many years. Once upon a time I much enjoyed KDE -- back in the KDE 3 days. For a short while I tinkered with Trinity. I gave KDE 4 an honest shot but when the PITA known as akonadi became a so-called pillar I moved to Xfce and MATE. I since have stabilized on MATE. MATE is not part of the stock Slackware and Pat has shared that is not on his agenda. That said, downloading the MATE packages is straightforward for the technically inclined.

I hope all that drivel helps. :)

Have fun!

solarfields 12-02-2018 04:13 PM

I would not persuade you at all. Use whatever you like and makes you happy. If you want to try Slackware, just go ahead and do it. Being used to Crux you, for sure, have enough Linux knowledge. Few remarks:

Quote:

Like Slack, it uses bsdinit and therefore boots very fast.
I have read here that the bsdinit is, in fact, slower than systemd (no flame war, pls).

Quote:

But it's source-based and updating is becoming a burden as packages get steadily larger.
Stuff you install from SlackBuilds.org will almost always require compilation, be aware of that. However, Slackware includes much more precompiled software by default than Crux.

Quote:

How would it be better?
It will not necessarily be better, that's a matter of personal opinion.

Richard Cranium 12-02-2018 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnort (Post 5932602)
Caveat: if you want to dig deep into or have a business need for containers then Slackware might not be a prime choice. Container technology rests a lot now on systemd and those wanting container technology stick with such distros.

Docker runs just fine on Slackware64 14.2, given the slackbuild.org builds.

If you have the resources that allow for a dedicated build machine, I'd recommend slackrepo for your slackbuild needs.

enorbet 12-03-2018 05:56 AM

Ever since 1999 I have never spent more than an hour a month tops in maintenance on Slackware, once initial setup is complete. I build a custom kernel (I dislike initrd and require DAW specific kernel features) and only apply security updates, and I'm selective about those. I would've said 5-6 hours a year tops except I do try out a lot of browsers and update my nVidia driver and Wine rather a lot (Games are physical therapy for me). FWIW I ran a Slackware based Minecraft server for 3 years and never updated anything after initial setup - literally zero maintenance over 3 years.

I do recommend a Full Install just for all the libraries and some really good K apps. One needn't run KDE to benefit from those. Hard drive space seems cheaper to me than my time.

hazel 12-03-2018 06:41 AM

Upnort, that is an amazingly full reply which I think deserves to be made into a sticky. A lot of it isn't relevant to my particular situation; I'm not an enterprise user and I don't want to set up a server, just a simple desktop system with a few standard applications. But as an answer to the general question "Why should anyone use Slackware?", it certainly hits the target.

After rereading this thread, I'm beginning to think that Slackware may well be the logical binary replacement for my groaning Crux system. Debian at the moment is my "complex but easy-to-use distro". It is very good tempered and I have never had any serious problems with it, but it comes with loads of cruft and you can't get rid of any of that because of the complex webs of dependency. I think changing that for Slackware would be too much of a culture shock! But I might consider Devuan in the future.

For now, I'm going to do a lot of reading up. Nothing changes until I know exactly what I want to do and how to do it. Young people jump in with both feet but old people read the manual first.

@solarfields: when I first used Crux, there was no systemd! The standard init was sysvinit and Crux was recommended to me as booting faster than that. I had 256 MB of core and 32-bit Crux was a delight to run on that.

Lysander666 12-03-2018 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5932778)
Debian at the moment is my "complex but easy-to-use distro". It is very good tempered and I have never had any serious problems with it, but it comes with loads of cruft and you can't get rid of any of that because of the complex webs of dependency. I think changing that for Slackware would be too much of a culture shock!

Absolutely no reason why you can't - only psychological boundaries. I hesitated a lot before moving from Debian to Slackware on my primary system, but once I had done it, it was completely fine.

trite 12-03-2018 07:12 AM

Docker is working fine on Slackware, I've been using it for a few years with no hickups at all.

Use Slackware because it doesnt have a lot of "fuckery" in it. "Fuckery" as in, SystemD, Unity, Gnome3 and it doesnt do anything that you didnt tell it to do as in: popups about system upgrades, commercial ads in your start menu, stuff like that.

IMO it is also one of the most easy-to-use distro our there.

gnashley 12-03-2018 08:33 AM

Gently persuade Slackware to do just what you want, when you want it.

ehartman 12-03-2018 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnort (Post 5932602)
Broadly speaking, for non technical users I recommend something from the Ubuntu Long Term Support (LTS) line. Huge ecosystem and decent upstream support.

In business the RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux, 10 to 13 years of support) or SLE (SUSE Linux Enterprise, 10 years general support and up to 3 years extended) distributions are most popular. Ubuntu LTS only offers up to 5 years.
OK, you have to pay for that support but then you can ask for fixes to be created asap!

upnort 12-03-2018 03:54 PM

Quote:

Young people jump in with both feet but old people read the manual first.
And we too once upon a time were young, n'est pas? :D

Quote:

Ubuntu LTS only offers up to 5 years.
Well, I did carefully qualify my previous post with "broadly speaking." :D

Recently announced is Ubuntu 18.04 will be supported for 10 years.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to addressing LTS. While 10 years is palatable to some enterprise users, that length is inconvenient to other enterprise users. I think 5 years should be the minimum acceptable for LTS, which somewhat disqualifies Debian, even with their additional one-year of security patches policy.

For myself, I find 10 years too long and prefer 5 years. Five years seems to be a sweet spot for me. Especially with certain packages. The Red Hat philosophy is almost nothing gets updated to newer releases. This causes pain for many users. An example is users wanting newer releases of PHP. A special repo must be used to accomplish this and even then not all users are able to successfully update to newer packages. Somewhat a fuster cluck. Also of note is Red Hat and CentOS, much like Debian stable, is stale with package versions upon official release. The Ubuntu folks push harder with newer releases before fixating the LTS release. I don't know how the Suse folks handle things.

The Ubuntu folks release a new LTS every two years. That easily allows enterprise users to update at any time less than 5 or 10 years. The Red Hat folks are now pushing a beta of their next release, well before their current 10-year cycle expires.

Of course, the old adage of never use a *.0 release of anything still applies after all the decades. That applies to distros too. Most sysadmins, even when they want to update, generally will not do so until the *.1 release is available. Even the Ubuntu devs acknowledge the traditional advice because they designed their updater not to notify users to update LTS releases until after the *.1 release is available. :)

That all said, historically Pat has supported Slackware releases for more than five years. Ignoring the enterprise concerns of some Slackware users, that qualifies every Slackware release as an LTS release.

Of course, all of this has nothing to do with helping hazel! :)

Lysander666 12-03-2018 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnort (Post 5932915)
Recently announced is Ubuntu 18.04 will be supported for 10 years.

Indeed, you have to pay beyond five years though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnort (Post 5932915)
That all said, historically Pat has supported Slackware releases for more than five years. Ignoring the enterprise concerns of some Slackware users, that qualifies every Slackware release as an LTS release.

Releases 9.0-11.0 and 13.0-13.37 had between 5 and 9 years' support. 8.1 had over ten years of support.

1337_powerslacker 12-03-2018 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 5932561)
You can subscribe to the Slackware mailing list which will tell you when new updates to official packages are out. Slackbuilds are updated every Saturday [those which have updates, that is].

You can also check the changelogs:

http://www.slackware.com/changelog/
https://slackbuilds.org/ChangeLog.txt

I personally update about once a week, though I'm sure I could get away with leaving it for a lot longer.

FYI,for those inclined to use an RSS reader, a feed is available: http://slackfeeds.sagredo.eu/slackware64-current.rss

bassmadrigal 12-03-2018 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337_powerslacker (Post 5932944)
FYI,for those inclined to use an RSS reader, a feed is available: http://slackfeeds.sagredo.eu/slackware64-current.rss

They are also available directly via slackware.com

https://mirrors.slackware.com/feeds/

ChuangTzu 12-03-2018 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trite (Post 5932784)
Use Slackware because it doesnt have a lot of "fuckery" in it.

This needs to be on a t-shirt, tagline, something!

PS: added to sig.

ChuangTzu 12-03-2018 06:00 PM

Hazel, as others have said we can't persuade you, nor should we. PV in my opinion does the best job of persuading people by providing the complete OS that he has for 2.5 decades. Stable, consistent, boring, gets the job done, all the tools to adapt/modify the OS to your liking, ability to add non repo programs without screwing up the system, updates that will not screw up the system etc... Oh and sane decisions/defaults. Did I mention we can't persuade you. ;)

A few pointers, if you want to get your Slack feet wet, you can always utilize a VM until you are comfortable, or try Salix (Slacks little son or cousin); think of it as Slackware with some Debian like conveniences. Or as they say "Slackware for the Lazy Slacker".

Devuan is another option, however, it only satisfies your not wanting systemd, since it still includes the Debian complexities.

dugan 12-03-2018 07:19 PM

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post4660942

;)

glorsplitz 12-03-2018 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu (Post 5932961)
Stable, consistent, boring, gets the job done

+1 this

enorbet 12-04-2018 01:28 AM

Hazel, I have a suggestion that may help you, and I hope, considerably. Most distros are distributed with some sort of Live setup but also most of them are very barebones, just basically a pale cover for a GUI installer. Slack Live, OTOH, is a rather Full System and is a great way to get a feel for how much culture shock you may or may not be in for. The images are easy to install on Optical or Thumbdrives and require not one single permanent change. Highly recommended.

You can find a selection of images sporting different Desktops, including Plasma but versions with Mate or Xfce are also here ====>>>

http://bear.alienbase.nl/mirrors/slackware-live/1.3.0/

hazel 12-04-2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 5932973)

Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

hitest 12-04-2018 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933212)
Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

Alan Hicks is not a freak or a hillbilly. Hes a Slackware contributor who wrote the Slackbook.

enorbet 12-04-2018 12:12 PM

Hazel I do hope you noted Dugan's winky. On the linked page he also mentions Eric S. Raymond to whom ALL Linux is indebted. Despite his being a bona fide FREAK! he at least did have a few moments of clarity when he wrote The Cathedral and The Bazaar. If you've ever watched the film Revolution OS you get a glimpse of how eccentric many of the first creators and proponents for Linux were but then again I suppose there are some people in the world who will never visit the amazing Sistine Chapel simply because it was created by "some all-fired flaming faggot! whom God has surely condemned to eternal screaming in the hubs of Hell" ;)

Hopefully for a good chuckle check out this tongue-firmly-in-cheek song regarding Hillbillies/Rednecks

--- Randy Newman - My Old Kentucky Home ---

birdboy 12-04-2018 12:16 PM

OP, take a look at Void Linux, might be exactly what you're looking for.

hazel 12-04-2018 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdboy (Post 5933226)
OP, take a look at Void Linux, might be exactly what you're looking for.

Mmm. Installation and configuration look very Slacky. On the other hand it's a rolling release, so probably less stable. There doesn't seem to be a USP here.

bassmadrigal 12-04-2018 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933212)
Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

Not all Slackware users fall into that category. I tended to focus more on:

Quote:

Slackware that appeals to the self-supportive, independent people of this world
This, I think, does sum up Slackware users pretty well. We don't run Slackware because it's popular. We run it because it fits our needs and we don't need validation from others for our choices.

Slackware is a great distro, but I will be the first to admit, it certainly isn't for everyone.

As for one of your sentences in your first post:

Quote:

Debian never uses one package where five will do!
If this is a big complaint, then Slackware may not be the distro for you (which is totally fine!). Pat long ago decided that he didn't want to dictate what software people use. This is why he tends to ship many different packages for the same task. For editors you have vim, emacs, nano, pico, ed, joe, kate, kwrite, and possibly more I don't remember. For WMs/DEs there's kde, xfce, fluxbox, blackbox, windowmaker, fvvm2, and twm. For video players, there's xine, mplayer, and kplayer. For browsers there's firefox, seamonkey, and konqueror with a google-chrome SlackBuild in extra/. Even with bootloaders, there's lilo, elilo, grub, and syslinux.

Slackware tends to use the (almost) everything but the kitchen sink method, which works for a lot of users because it makes it more likely that their preferred choice is going to be available. But some users are going to be unhappy because it's either too much (bloat) or not enough (my preferred whatever isn't available).

If you prefer the "one app per task" style, there is Salix (which has probably been mentioned already, but I'm too lazy to go back and look), which is based on Slackware and is binary compatible with Slackware.

dugan 12-04-2018 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933212)
Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

How about Europeans then?

1337_powerslacker 12-04-2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal (Post 5933232)
We don't run Slackware because it's popular. We run it because it fits our needs and we don't need validation from others for our choices.

Slackware is a great distro, but I will be the first to admit, it certainly isn't for everyone.

This sums up exactly why I use it. I have reached the point in my life where I don't give a rat's a** about who thinks what about what choices I make for myself. It really doesn't affect anyone else's life one way or another. Live and let live, I say! :D

hazel 12-04-2018 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal (Post 5933232)
If this is a big complaint, then Slackware may not be the distro for you (which is totally fine!). Pat long ago decided that he didn't want to dictate what software people use. This is why he tends to ship many different packages for the same task.

No, that's not what I meant. Maybe I expressed myself badly. Having a lot of alternatives is a good thing. Even Crux, which has a very limited officially supported repository, has a lot of private ones where you can get non-KISS software like gnome and KDE. What I meant about Debian (and it's a long-standing beef of mine) is the way they fragment packages. They often take out bits of upstream packages and package them separately, and I don't just mean the runtime/development library thing (which Red Hat distros do too and which does make a sort of sense). It makes for more complexity and more dependencies. Slackware seems more like LFS in this respect: a package contains what upstream says it ought to contain.

Richard Cranium 12-04-2018 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933212)
Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

Can we please keep this in the technical arena and away from the political one?

ChuangTzu 12-04-2018 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933212)
Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

Slack might not be for you after-all. Actually seems like *̶b̶u̶n̶t̶u̶̶/antiX thinking, I had high hopes for you hazel.

upnort 12-04-2018 05:07 PM

Quote:

What I meant about Debian (and it's a long-standing beef of mine) is the way they fragment packages. They often take out bits of upstream packages and package them separately, and I don't just mean the runtime/development library thing (which Red Hat distros do too and which does make a sort of sense). It makes for more complexity and more dependencies.
Those who are comfortable wearing those well-worn Slackware jeans do tend to get miffed by this difference. Myself included. :) That said, the split package design somewhat makes sense from an end-user perspective. No need to install development support when most users just use the base app and do not do development work. Pretty much a tom-ay-to and to-mah-to difference, although annoying to some of us. :)

bassmadrigal 12-04-2018 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933256)
No, that's not what I meant. Maybe I expressed myself badly. Having a lot of alternatives is a good thing. Even Crux, which has a very limited officially supported repository, has a lot of private ones where you can get non-KISS software like gnome and KDE. What I meant about Debian (and it's a long-standing beef of mine) is the way they fragment packages. They often take out bits of upstream packages and package them separately, and I don't just mean the runtime/development library thing (which Red Hat distros do too and which does make a sort of sense). It makes for more complexity and more dependencies. Slackware seems more like LFS in this respect: a package contains what upstream says it ought to contain.

That makes a lot more sense.

glorsplitz 12-04-2018 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal (Post 5933232)
We don't run Slackware because it's popular. We run it because it fits our needs and we don't need validation from others for our choices.

this +1

and

Stable, consistent, boring, gets the job done.

trite 12-05-2018 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu (Post 5932958)
This needs to be on a t-shirt, tagline, something!

PS: added to sig.

https://imgur.com/a/WT34fiN

Haha, here you go sir.

Lysander666 12-05-2018 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 5933212)
Hmm! I'm not sure I want to associate myself with a load of 2nd amendment freaks and hillbillies. I'm eccentric but not that sort of eccentric.

So one sort of eccentricity is permissible over another? As you must know, creativity and eccentricity of various sorts go hand-in-hand. In fact, the best kinds of creative output are executed by those whose lifestyle choices are unusual or controversial. One of my best friends in the US is a gun-carrying civil war buff. At one stage he had a confederate flag on display in his living room. He's a great guy and a music expert but his choices with regard to what he does in his free time are not necessarily my own. I don't judge him for that - we all are a result of different societal and cultural influences and, as long as he's not harming anyone, I don't see the problem. Axl Rose and Dave Mustaine are absolute idiots but they make great music. Salvador Dali used to do questionable things to his models but his art was ground-breaking. Andy Warhol was an obsessive hoarder.

The point is that there is a difference between the creator and the created. Art [of which one can count software, to an extent] is a individual's way of trying to heal or interpret issues in the world. And for many, the necessity of doing so comes from an internal need for expression, catharsis or to solve a practical concern. I can think of one or two LQ forum members right off the bat here who are eccentric, I could even include myself. If some of my likes and interests were known, I imagine I could be labelled a freak too - but I'd rather be that than be an unproductive conformist. Maybe Slackware is made by a band of oddballs, but maybe that's why it's so good.

murphcid 12-05-2018 07:03 AM

Hi, I am new here and am a very newbie Linux user. I first started with Linux back in 2001 with a boxed set of Mandrake Linux 7.1. I was LOST! But I really liked the concept of Linux and the whole free software attitude. So I joined a board (since defunct) and I was banned for asking newbie questions, and daring to claim that if Linux made it "easier" for the new user, then more people would get into it. The worst offenders were the Debian users who claimed that APT was the ultimate weapon in the Linux wars, and then the Red Hat users who were less rude, but more "Hey Noob!, RTFM!" Even back in the day, the Slackware users were just chill (as my kids say), and they were like: "Dude, get some books, we can answer the questions, and join us". But I was so put off and intimidated that I left Linux for almost 15 years. I am back with Mint, and it works for me, but back in the recesses of my mind, I still recall the Slackware users, and that seductive call of: "Come on, give it a try, you know you want to, just one little installation...." Maybe one day when I am confident in my terminal use, but for now, I am just a lowly user.


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