Slackware Vs Ubuntu
Now before I get severely flamed let me explain my situation. My friend and I basically chose to different linux distributions. I went down the slackware path because I figured that I had more computer knowledge than him and it seemed like it was the best one to me. Although he is pretty good with computers as well. We are both computer science majors. Anyway He chose Ubuntu now we are getting into this huge debate as to which distrobution is better. He essentially laughs at me. I recently saw his computer which is what I am typing on now.. Ironically. His computer is beyond being a function computer. What I consider functional to be is a computer that can...
-Able Use Multiple Moniters.(we both use 2 monitors or more) -Have all sound & audio drivers working -Network adapters usable Wireless & LAN -Able to install and uninstall programs at will -Customizable -An Active memeber on the network (we both have networks at our house's if you don't use networks then I guess this won't really matter much but it is usefull for file sharing purposes) -Flash and plugins for Firefox, PDF (this way you can watch youtube videos and view some other sites that have flash or videos) -Some sort of Open Office or Word so that we can do our school work -As far as linux goes we both said we were going to get Comliz & Whine -Also have our music & videos up on Linux as well. -Security -Also keep the system up to date. -Able to Back up files -Keyboard and mouse Fully function including smart buttons. -Also something unique that sets your system apart. -Fully function bittorent hehe it has its uses. Anyway......... His computer is beyond function I feel as though things that in slackware are extremely complicated are made easy. Like I was asking him about like how did you get his sound working did you figure out about the terminal alfmixer. He was like basically I just installed it and everything worked. Meanwhile I struggled and still did not have sound I got sound to work easily on another computer but not my main one. I spent hours trying to install 1 single thing trying to read about creating packets and all of this stuff when he simply just went to his little packet manager. When I had problems with my GUI showing up his was straight forward already there. I am still using one monitor which gets really irrating when you work on duel screens and you are accustomed to use tri-screens and often dual at home. His system pretty much put me to shame he is using quad screens. Everything works to perfection I was surprised even his smart buttons worked on his keyboard. My mouse and keyboard and mouse are on the most basic setting to get it to at least allow me to type and click. I don't even have any games on my computer. Meanwhile he even has a virtual console that enables him to use windows, linux and other distributions from Ubuntu and I am starting to covet his different operating systems on different monitors all connected. Anyway at this point he is making the argument that Ubuntu is just simply superior so I was wondering what advantage or card do I have at this point. I nearly took the cd's from him. He is like why are you wasting your time with a outdated distro. |
Personal preference I guess. I have tried them all, only gentoo comes close to my tastes. The last Ubuntu I tried was really annoying on the laptop and compiling a custom kernel was just... unnecessarily complicated.
Have you read distrowatch's Top Ten Distributions Some good points there. Use what you want/like/need no matter what people say. The right tool for the right job :) |
Ubuntu is superior for a n00b............
If you want to LEARN, keep Slacking. |
"If you want to learn how to use linux use slackware."
Ubuntu is a linux distribution focus'ed on making things simple and easy for new comers and experts alike. Basically Ubuntu holds your hand the entire way. However Slackware is "hardcore" linux if you want the same functionality as your friend is getting out of Ubuntu you need to have quite a bit of linux knowledge. Ubuntu has quite a bit of popularity these days because its considered an easy to use linux. Their motto I believe is "Linux for human beings" instead of 10 years ago when you were considered a super geek just because you had linux. To sum it all up I think you made the right choice going with slack. You will learn more than your friend is because you are being forced to work these things out on your own instead of relying on programs to fix it for you. Asking which distribution is better than which (and by this i mean any distribution) usualy incites a flame war and everyone will have their opinion. And I am no different so heres mine - once you learn how to use linux Slackware > Ubuntu. Slackware keeps to the linux traditions more than Ubuntu does. To me Linux is all about the command line interface and not point and click babysitting. Slacks the oldest surviving linux that focuses on security and stability. I've been using linux since 1998 and ever since then Slackware and Debian have pretty much paved the way as far as distributions go. If you dont like Slackware you might like Debian (Ubuntu is based on it). Don't get me wrong though Ubuntu is great too infact I use it on multiple systems but only for desktop use I would never put it anywhere where security is important like a server. I use Ubuntu on my laptop/desktop but I use OpenBSD on my server however I would never recommend Ubuntu to a new linux user over Slackware. Once you learn how to set everything up in slack you can go to Ubuntu and when the point and click or apt-get system fails you, youll know what to do. My suggestion is stick with slack for a good year or so. Learn the CLI like the back of your hand. Get your sound/hardware all working and learn your way around system settings and config files before you go into a distribution that does a lot of that for you. |
If you want to learn how Linux works run Slackware, if you want Linux to just work, use Ubuntu.
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Ugh. Again? Really? There is a search function in these forums. This debate has been beaten to death. My Slackware box does everything listed above (except I don't have a wireless card, and I don't have a second monitor -- though I know dual displays work fine).
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The easiest methods of package installation in Slackware are using slackbuilds.org (and after finally testing sbopkg on another partition, I can say that this makes things SO much easier and faster), rworkman's repository, Alien Bob's repository, and slacky.eu (I trust that one less than the others, but I've never had any trouble with their SlackBuilds or packages and it is a good resource). Again, package management in Slackware is different than most distros, and it's really a philosophical difference. It's your choice. Quote:
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Basically, Slackware is easy, stable, and low-maintenance -- once you get used to it. Ubuntu is always relatively easy (depending on your hardware), and Slackware is always simple (but not necessarily vice versa). If you don't like Slackware, switch. Otherwise, we would be more than willing to help you fix your system. |
Slackware is better, because doesn't hide internals. This is personal opinion.
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Slackware is the geekier of the two, so you'll do a lot better with the geek chicks.
IOW, you win. cheers, |
Well I boot both slackware 12.1 and Intrepid Ibex and have been pretty involved with both communities. It does not have to be a choice, you can have the best of both worlds :-)
Andrew |
Thanks for posting this here, you troll, you're hoping to start another flame war ? Other than that is there any other point to this thread ? I don't see any questions or problems that you have. How am I supposed to help you ? Go use Ubuntu or Window$, I'm not stopping you, and no one else is either.
I'm hereby unsubscribing permanently from this thread, it is going to be a flame war, and I want no part of it. |
Groundhog Day.
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Otherwise your comment reminds me old saying that "A bullet can have your name on it, but grenades are addressed to whom it may concern". |
The first lunux distro I installed was Ubuntu. I was (and still am) quite happy with Ubuntu. I started using other distros because I wanted to learn more about linux. I eventually settled upon Slackware. I have learned more about linux using Slackware than I ever could have learned using Ubuntu. This forum has been a great source of knowledge also. There are a lot of hardcore Slackers here who really know there stuff!
You will have to do some reading to get the most out of Slackware. Some suggestions: http://www.slackbook.org/ http://www.slackbasics.org/html/ http://humanreadable.nfshost.com/sdeg/index.htm And the Slackware LQ links: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Slackware-Links Also, Slackware runs faster and uses less of your computer's resources than Ubuntu. Ubuntu has become slower over the last few releases: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...nch_2008&num=1 |
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1) No specific question is asked. I don't see a single question in the OP's post. 2) Every other thread titled this way has ended in a flame war, and the OP also knows this. So why did they post ? Did they fail to see the others with the exact same title ?!@?! 3) The entire post is about how "good" Ubuntu is, and has very little to do with Slackware. Other than that it can be implied that Slackware is absolutely inadequate as a distro, is worthless, and should be put out of its misery. Obviously, Ubuntu is FAR superior is every aspect. So my advice: go use it, and stop trolling. If you have a question on how to get something working on Slackware I will gladly answer in, and so will everyone else. If you only come here to be a troll, rant and start a flame war. You are not welcome, at least according to me. |
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"He who laughs last, laughs loudest." Stick with Slackware and you'll have the last laugh. There's a steep learning curve with Slackware to start with, but once you've climbed that curve, you'll understand. As for the specific differences between slackware and ubuntu, I'll just join brianL in saying "I definitely see a shadow", and leave it at that. |
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Just one point of clarification on the above statement: keeping track of your installed packages is pretty easy. You can get a list of all your installed packages by looking at the contents of the /var/log/packages directory. From there, it's easy to look at what you have installed versus what's available as an update. Regards, -Drew |
Two monitors...Four monitors...Six?
You still have only one pair of eyes each. Plastic surgery next? |
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AFAIK some people that work with internet stock markets also use multi-monitor machines. It makes sense when you want a very large screen that can hold large amount of data, and you don't need to keep attention on all that data. In short - eyes move much faster than you can switch virtual desktops in KDE. |
To the op: install Ubuntu (you can easily install Slackware and Ubuntu on the same computer), use it for a couple of months and form your own conclusions. If you're not willing to do that then, well, what kind of computer science student are you?
When you know Ubuntu, ask yourself this: if you had unlimited time, knowledge and resources to put towards customizing your Slackware installation, would you end turning it into Ubuntu? |
Slackware versus Buntu's
Which is best merely depends on the users. Everyone is right so far in that all your problems are easy fixes. If you demand the most out of your system either build Slackware into what you want or strip the buntus into what you want. I try to respect all LINUX users in that most are looking to leave windows for something better :) .
The buntu's are superior... in that they are designed for superior gui control of the system and being Linux (please excuse my extreme oversimplification) highly configurable for people who don't want to manually configure anything. Great user GUI-controls but bloated kernels, base installations and such after initial install. ( you can highly modify the buntu's configurations to change this but.. just as much work as Slackware and once again dependant on you knowledge of Linux) Slackware is superior... for people who want more control over their systems and want to handle the internal mechanics of their built systems manually with a stable and highly configurable base. Lightweight systems are normally initially fairly lightweight and fast after initial installation of restricted drivers if necessary and basic configuration. Greatest advantage is KISS (google Slackware KISS if need be). ***note: If you believe as my wife does and the command promt is the mark of satan, prolly not your distro although I have found I only use most setup tools ONCE... so why not just do it once manually. ( please.. again excuse oversimplification) Linux users are superior... for deciding on their preferred flavor of linux, if you want the gui menus by default... get them... you can build only the ones you want in Slack or have possible many you need to remove in the Buntus... but if you want more control... learn linux. No-one knows better than the user what he wants. This is the same with all distros. At home I run Gentoo, Slackware, and Kubuntu all on different systems depending on the user. Kubuntu for my wife ( she prefers GUIs, not because its better or worse ), Gentoo on my laptop (highly stripped, but only the functions I want and fast for a 400mhz K6-2 3Dnow), and Slackware customized for myself ( Well,, mostly Slackware lol ;) ). But for my flame war... If you are willing to argue your distro.. you are a 'Superior Linux User' for deciding, and getting or building exactly what you want. This is why I switched to Linux. If you truly love Slackware peruse the how-to's and get everything set-up the way you want and what you can't find post. Slackware has a large support base and from my experience very friendly. All of the distro's I have tried have always given me support that I would say easily rivalled any commercial software I have worked with. |
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Tsolider don't get my wrong you like fathered me into Slackware so to speak. Most questions I have you always respond and usually the first one. What I am saying in reguard to the dead question that has been beat over and over in reguards to sound is. I can get it up on other Slackware systems in the house just not mine. I don't know what it is. I don't know if its because of my particular sound card but all I know is it fails on my personal PC and works fine on others I setup. The monitor thing that just still kills me. The links and things are indeed helpful. haha sometimes I feel like in order to get one task accomplished I must read 4 pages of information. I belive that Slackware has some Top Teir Qualities. The two distro's that really got me was Slackware and Suse although I did not get to try it. Its also hard to need to get work done and you have to figure out how to get your work done before you can start getting it done. Also its like everyone asks me questions about slackware often I don't know the anwsers sometimes I post questions from other peoples box's that I have questions about. But its like I am feeling like for the amount of time I have been spending he has had better results. Aso for Command Line I LOVE that lol I feel like I am doing something serious.... lol my friend calls it Matrix mode. He is like so are you taking down D.O.D I am like nope just trying to fix my mouse. HAHA :D. I also enjoy the GUI of slackware because I mean I like pressing buttons sometimes to :). As for computers I pride myself on going far and beyond expectations and limitations. I am waiting for the day that I can be more of a "contribting factor" in this forum than just a question asker. Even when I used windows I changed everything Custom GUI, Custom Boot-Up (lol wat one time I had it saying Slackware lol). I had custom scripts to load and execute commands based on key strokes. The more I understood windows the more I realized that I did not have the control I thought I did. I realized that Microsoft still is the background scheming. I realized that Linux had to be a superior system when my friend got his system owned by hackers and infact could not even sign into his computer they changed the password and everything. We used this Linux password recovery cd or something like that actually allowed him to change the password and he was able to log back in. We had a back ups on another computer off his network. My house :P. I actually used the same cd on my computer just to see if my password would be given up so eaisly and it was. I lost all sense of faith and security in windows. Also with the type of jobs that my parents have security is a very important issue. I would hate to be the weakest link that gets the information exploited. I live in a IT house basically everyone is the computer field. |
Iwannaslack,
Going to the first paragraph of your post..."I went down the slackware path because I figured that I had more computer knowledge than him..."; if you have equal hardware, and are willing to put effort into it --learning and configuring-- you should be able to make your system do anything his can, but faster. With Slackware, you do your work at the beginning, and then you're good to go. The 'easy' distos become not-so-easy when something goes wrong. |
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Oh, and from one new member to another, welcome to LQ! Jan-C. |
Currently we are working a challenge :)lol he'll setup 1 slackware box and I will setup 1 unbuntu box. lol allready he is talking about the swap HAHA. this will go down this weekend. I am also just going to imerse myself with this I am going to format my computer an start completely over from 0. Just Slackware and I. the same way I felt when I was learning to drive manual. I felt like I could not drive as well when I drove automatic people laughed don't stall out ~! haha! But later... No one can touch me. I crush everyone car as I speed by I get to say things like (press on the gas harder maybe you'll go faster). Then they say something like "All your doing is out shifting me and accelerating". Then I just sigh * to myself newbs drive manual. To this day I refuse to drive automatic its like not driving at all. I guessing a similar experience will occur. With Slackware. Which gives me an Idea about another post..
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ok i'll fix it :D. Also I am not trying to Troll or anything like that I am just trying to be educated by the community so I don't misrepresent the values that we try to uphold. Therefore when he says Unbuntu this I can go Slackware this :D .
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with slackware you can make everything work, with a little effort.
so once you have done that, then you are the master!!! you can compare the performance, one by one - finally you will stick with slack only. ubuntu dont give the freedom to configure as you like. if you want to use a distro without additional work, i suggest opensuse, it is 10 times better than ubuntu in that sense regards rkrishna |
I definitely think that if you want to learn linux, Slackware is your best bet. My problem with Ubuntu was that it seems to discourage use of the command line as much as possible, which is a shame because the command line is one of the most robust features of Linux! He may be able to get the basic features working, but if you want to utilize linux to it's full potential, you NEED to know the command line.
Learn the command line, try looking into bash scripting, see what you can do. Ubuntu is great for awhile, but if you stick with slackware you will truly know linux, so that when he gets a bug and has no idea of what to do, you can quickly swoop in and save the day. |
sorry I couldn't resist....
If slackers thought that ubuntu makes people braindead they had better look at this site: http://xibex.blogspot.com/, be sure to have the flash plugin enabled but don't make me responsible if there's any kind of resulting system damage by the act of browsing that site. |
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Chicken and Egg
Scrooge Mc'Duck once said to work smarter not harder.
To the original poster of this thread. Take a lesson from your buddy. Install Ubuntu and spend more time studying the basics of Computer Science. It will come in more handy than learning about Acpi Scripts and configuration commands for xorg.conf, wpa_supplicant.conf, and lilo. |
Well, damn, what have I been thinking??
If Scrooge McDuck thinks I should use Ubuntu, I guess I'll start downloading now. |
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O.K. So we are back to square one, use whatever fits you best. |
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Take an old monitor that can't be configured automatically (horizontal/vertical refresh rates), and you'll have to edit xorg.conf manually, even on Ubuntu. |
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Church of the Subgenious
In the end all paths lead back to Slack.
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This is an interesting thread.
Several days ago I posted a question asking for opinions about using Slackware as a base operating system in a consulting business. That is, using Slackware as a base free/libre operating system for clients/customers. Although my thread has gone quiet, I have not been quiet with respect to my original question. Slackware is well known for providing only a base operating system and not a full-fledged system. End-users are expected to massage Slackware into the type of system they want. I have been preparing a web page addressing many issues that a consultant would need to consider if using Slackware as a base operating system. Typical computer users cannot do this. I defined a typical user in my original thread. These people lack the knowledge, experience, and motivation to build Slackware beyond the original installation. They want to treat a computer as an appliance, not a hobby or profession. They have no desire or inclination to become computer equivalents of Saturday "motorheads." Although I am progressing with my web page, there is a lot of work involved to build additional packages and customize the base Slackware to create an operating system that could be used by typical users. Two areas remain problematic: 1) a significant lack of prebuilt packages and 2) a lack of automated hardware detection and configuration tools. Typical users can learn to use a package manager. Yet if the package they want is unavailable then the operating system has failed them. Slackware does not have the repository depth of other distros. An experienced Slacker can build a repository for customers, but that is a lot of work and expense. Customers are unlikely to pay to download custom-built packages when other distros provide this for free. Similarly, if a person decides to install and support free/libre operating systems for customers, reliable detection and auto-configuration tools are necessary or the person will lose money trying to manually configure every conceivable hardware system that might come along. Typical users are not going to install an operating system. The consultant will do this but needs to work efficiently to keep putting beans on the table. A hobbyist can tinker all afternoon trying to build a package or configure xorg.conf, but a business person cannot. A consultant must be willing to work hard but there is a point of diminishing returns with how much time can be spent trying to configure a box. Along comes Ubuntu intended to resolve those two issues. Ubuntu is hardly perfect. For Slackers, Ubuntu is obsessively designed to prevent users from tinkering too deep into the system. The Ubuntu phenomenon has standardized the sudo command. (I'm sick of reading how-tos telling me to sudo this and sudo that.) Nonetheless, the Ubuntu community is attempting to resolve certain problematic issues. I am uncertain Slackware can resolve these issues as easily. In the end, typical users will choose Ubuntu. They want to point-and-click and there is no way to change that. No more than typical people have no desire to change the engine oil on their cars. I like Slackware. I use Slackware as my primary operating system. Yet as I asked in my original thread, is Slackware a good choice for a person wanting to run a business installing free/libre software? I have my doubts without resolving those two problems I mentioned. That means learning a new distro. Not necessarily Ubuntu, but perhaps OpenSuse or Fedora. OpenSuse or Fedora also have the advantage of absorbing improvements from their business version siblings. A Slacker possesses sufficient knowledge and experience to adapt to those operating systems, but that means Slackware is out of the picture as a core system for the consulting business. Slackware is a good system to learn how things work. For people who have no desire to open the hood, Ubuntu and other systems make more sense. There is no "right" or "wrong" decision with selecting a free/libre operating system. Each person must define his or her own happiness. If tinkering with computers is fun then consider Slackware. If not, then consider Ubuntu, OpenSuse, or Fedora. |
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I'm not a professional, just a hobbyist, so I don't know how it would be in a business environment, but I'll share my experience, although they're all desktops we're talking about (all but one maintained by me). :) I installed four distro's on other people's machines (all part of the family, or friends), let's call them A, B, C and D. A was (and still is) a complete noob, fed up with the hassle and sluggishness of Windows and so I installed Ubuntu (dualboot Ubuntu - WXP). I thought he would learn how to update and maintain the system, which is quite simple on Ubuntu. Reality shows that he doesn't maintain his pc, so when I'm over there, I always update the computer, which takes a lot of time (ever ran Ubuntu? ;) ). I still regret the installation of Ubuntu, it turns out I have to maintain the machine, which would be a lot easier and faster on Slackware. B was a noob, but willing to learn, so I installed Ubuntu. He learned. And learned. And so, after a while, he got rid of Ubuntu and installed Zenwalk (recommended by me). He is very happy with he speed and snappiness of Zenwalk (his frustration with Ubuntu was the slowness -he runs an old machine). I would have recommended Slackware, but his English is very poor (so Slackware won't fit him). C is an elder person, complete noob. I installed Slackware and when I'm over there, I update the pc with slackpkg and sbopkg, within 15 minutes. Never any problems, everything works fine. D is also a complete noob and he's not willing to learn, but also was fed up with Windows and so I installed Slackware (dualboot SW - WXP). He still doesn't know anything about computers (and he doesn't care), but Slack runs fine and he's happy with it. When there are updates, I e-mail him with precise instructions. No problems. :) |
Typical user
Almost anyone reading this page is, by definition, not a "typical user". While we're talking about which disto is easier to install, or if it's worth the time to configure things without gui tools, etc.,
most computer users have never installed *any* OS, including Windows. What percentage of non-FLOSS computer users even know what a partition is? |
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It would be nice to have feedback from people that actually have zero experience with computers, instead of using assumptions. Because normally fans of operating systems/distributions use those "zero experience" people to defend their point of view, but no one cares to check what exactly is "easy" for those people, so all discussions about "distro being easy to install" quickly become purely theoretical. Where are statistical numbers? Where is huge research studying computer abilities of newbies using a group of 10000 volunteers? Quote:
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--EDIT--- I'm sick of fairy-tales about "typical users", and arguments (about things being easy or not) that aren't backed up by numbers. I hope there one day will be distribution that will follow iterative development scheme used by good commercial software, so all "typical user" crap will finally go away. "iterative development scheme" means: 1) create a product. 2) from the target audience, take number of volunteers. 3) test product on volunteers, gather feedback. 4) analyze feedback 5) using analysis results, modify product. 6) go to #2. 7) repeat forever. Games developed by valve software allows to get picture of that process using "developer commentaries" mode built into game. I'd recommend to check it. IMO, both slackware and ubuntu are not using this scheme. |
A few years ago some statistician defined a typical family as one father, one mother, a dog and..... are you ready???
2.5 kids! There really is no one size fits all in computers. I use XP for transfering my analog recordings to a digital format. The hardware I use will run on XP only. I use Vista for my DAW, the software I use will only run Vista. It does run on XP, but no support. I am building a Slackware 12.2 computer that will run VOCP and Asterisk; as well as be a web server and mail server, and a firewall. Not sure if I can get all that work work.... but I will find out. My fourth computer runs CentOS x86_64, it is a dedicated file server. My fifth computer runs Win9X, WFWG and Win NT. It is used as a synthizer, and converting analog audio to a digital format. Each of my computers does different task. The OS was selected for the task the computer does. It would be silly to use Win NT as a Web Server in a DMZ. And it would be silly to try to do any serious multi-track audio editing on my slackware computer. For me I'm a typical user, if the groups involves slack'in DJ'ing, Audio Engineering, hacking, drumming, playing the guitar left handed, and have five computers.... if so the above is my typical setup. :) I have used Ubuntu... Something glitched and I went back to Slackware. Don't remember the glitch... I like Slackware because it is simple and I understand it. I struggle with Slack because it doesn't have 20,000 packages that I can install via slapt-get. ;) -JJ |
I would define an "average" or "typical" computer user as someone who:
* buys a computer with a preinstalled OS, usually Windows, and has no awareness or interest in any alternative OS. * uses that computer for occasional web searches, email, word-processing, etc. All the people I know fall into that category. That is, those that have computers. They're all normal, some highly intelligent, people who have other interests and concerns to occupy their time. |
Typical users:
My parents run Slackware. I've tried on two occaions to install something else but I stop myself. Actually the distribution I try to change to stops me. Most these live-cd distributions require passing different boot-time parameters to even load on the one machine they own. Forget that. They don't have internet. So this limits me to two real distributions. Slackware and Debian, because they ship with easily accessible dvd releases containing all the source and binaries I need. The parents are an hour away so I can't just run back home to download more junk for them. What agravates me the most about slackware sometimes is that it is a generic distribution. I had to basically write my own scripts the handle brightness controls and then I had to make an rc file for the volume keys to work. I don't even remember how to do that anymore as I basically use 'dd' to image my partition and place it on an external harddrive for safe keeping. Debian and others have had these scripts for a couple of years. They are basically generic. Wireless is a pain in the ass under slackware. I dropped in a 2.6.27 kernel and basically never got a good version of madwifi to work with it. So with Slack I'm stuck with 2.6.24 heavily modified. KNetworkmanager is stock on a kde distribution these days but not in Slackware. I suppose its good they have wicd in the extras on 12.2 Slack but that's not even in the main install. So it's good my parents don't have internet just yet. When they do I'll have to switch their distribution. Check out the testing.txt file under the testing folder on the new slackware 12.2 ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackwar...ing/README.TXT " Any suggestions about what you'd be willing to pay for a disc in an envelope release would also be appreciated. " Now they are talking about a kde 4.2 rolled version. But honestly no thanks guys I'll roll my own version. Flame on. |
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