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Old 01-24-2010, 01:12 AM   #151
catkin
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The problem with these "which is best" discussions is that there are so many characteristics to consider and we weight them according to our preferences. End result: the answer is personal and there is no right answer.

For me the most important characteristics are stability, speed and transparency. On that basis Slackware is very much better than ubuntu.

The "no root access" characteristic of ubuntu is irrelevant because it can be very easily fixed.
 
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:22 AM   #152
GrapefruiTgirl
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@ catkin -- can the "no root access" still be as easily fixed in 9.10? I thought I read that they made it even more difficult to do.. Maybe I MISread..


Either way, on topic: I tried for ages to get my roommate to see Slackware the way I see it, to no avail. I gave up. However, she is now (took about 2 years to get to this stage of finally tossing Win) she is fairly happy with Ubuntu, though her update to 9.10 went to hell in a basket, so she reverted to 9.04 again.

But, she doesn't "get" Slackware like I do, and doesn't want to. And I don't mind admitting, I don't "get" Ubuntu either, and don't want to. I don't like it; too slow, sluggish (at least on her 1.2 GHz machine) and when something goes awry (like her update to 9.10) I haven't really got a decent idea where to start helping her fix it: click this, click that, wait a few minutes it's doing something... Oops it's REALLY broken now :/

Two different perspectives, two different preferences.
 
Old 01-24-2010, 01:36 AM   #153
catkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrapefruiTgirl View Post
@ catkin -- can the "no root access" still be as easily fixed in 9.10? I thought I read that they made it even more difficult to do.
I don't know; you are likely to be right, it would be consistent with ubuntu's approach and you know more about 9.10 than I do -- I have not even seen a version of ubuntu after 8.0.4 and should have said so above.
 
Old 01-24-2010, 02:15 AM   #154
GrapefruiTgirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
I don't know; you are likely to be right, it would be consistent with ubuntu's approach and you know more about 9.10 than I do -- I have not even seen a version of ubuntu after 8.0.4 and should have said so above.
LOL, I have only seen 6.x up super-close, as that was the very first Linux I ever downloaded and installed 3 years ago!

It lasted about 2 hours at most! Soon after it was replaced by <some distro> and than <some other distro> and then Slackware
The roommates machine, I stay away from when possible. It's slow and annoying
 
Old 01-24-2010, 02:42 PM   #155
devwatchdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
The problem with these "which is best" discussions is that there are so many characteristics to consider and we weight them according to our preferences. End result: the answer is personal and there is no right answer.

For me the most important characteristics are stability, speed and transparency. On that basis Slackware is very much better than ubuntu.

The "no root access" characteristic of ubuntu is irrelevant because it can be very easily fixed.
catkin effective mirrors my attitude regarding one or the other distro, and I even extend this to beyond just the Ubuntu/Slackware commentary -- use the tools that suit the situation. If it is a work environment, there is a chance that Windoze could very well be the best solution. If you're looking for hardcore security on a router/firewall, it might be OpenBSD, or perhaps a Cisco, Netscreen or Vyatta product. Being biased to the point of prejudice will leave you making poor choices in the long run. In my opinion, if you can't come up with a stable desktop/laptop system from any of the major Linux releases, and keep it that way, well, in many cases I would venture to guess the OS isn't the issue.

To give my little diatribe some background, I went to work for a MS software development company specializing in databases back in '01, and shortly thereafter was coined by one of the owners as 'the linux bigot'. Anything with so much as a gui on it was sacrilege insofar as I was concerned at that time. I'd rant and rave in ways that aren't terribly unlike some of the things I read here in this thread.

I had to set up a secure environment, involving Active Directory and all the various elements of a development environment, along with that gawd-awful rancid email server known as Exchange, which is one product I absolutely despise.

Ultimately I actually came to appreciate some of the things that MS did. Some of it works very well, in fact. If you know what you are doing, you can create a reasonably secure workstation, or server. We never had one virus infection through that period, and that was the era of rampant virus activity. Not to say they don't still exist, but it's been a while since we have seen anything quite like nimda, code red or slammer. Then again, I seldom use any MS products currently and don't keep up on that end o' things.

Eventually my attitude tempered, and I came to realize one needs an open mind in order to make balanced decisions regarding systems. There is no sole OS that does everything better than any other in every respect.

One thing that stands out as I read through several pages of this thread is that there is a strong sense of FUD being presented.

Oh, and for those that wonder about the su issue in Ubuntu, this being 9.10:

jcwx@haley:~$ sudo su -
[sudo] password for jcwx:
root@haley:~# whoami
root
root@haley:~# exit
logout
jcwx@haley:~$

heh. I can't believe that was actually an issue.
 
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:28 PM   #156
itsbrad212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
The problem with these "which is best" discussions is that there are so many characteristics to consider and we weight them according to our preferences. End result: the answer is personal and there is no right answer.

For me the most important characteristics are stability, speed and transparency. On that basis Slackware is very much better than ubuntu.

The "no root access" characteristic of ubuntu is irrelevant because it can be very easily fixed.
I was just pointing out the fact that ubuntu is getting farther and farther away from traditional gnu/linux, which is good for newcomers, but not for an advanced user.
 
Old 01-24-2010, 06:32 PM   #157
itsbrad212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devwatchdog View Post

Oh, and for those that wonder about the su issue in Ubuntu, this being 9.10:

jcwx@haley:~$ sudo su -
[sudo] password for jcwx:
root@haley:~# whoami
root
root@haley:~# exit
logout
jcwx@haley:~$

heh. I can't believe that was actually an issue.
Um that is still using sudo
 
Old 01-24-2010, 07:40 PM   #158
devwatchdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbrad212 View Post
Um that is still using sudo
Hmmnn...I'm somewhat at a loss as to what the advantage of actually having a root password is as opposed to logging in as another user and then going the 'sudo su -' route. I glanced at the environment variables and they seemed to be set up properly for the root user after 'sudo su -'.

I read a few articles regarding gaining a root password versus using 'sudo -s' and 'sudo bash', but none of them really explained the reasons as to why a root password should be set. There was the usual gnashing of the teeth over the supposed indignation of Ubuntu undermining people's authority over their own systems. (heh!) I'm sure if I were so inclined, setting a root password wouldn't be an issue.

Could someone explain to me what the advantage is? I've used Ubuntu for a few years and can't say I've found it to be a real issue.

Just wondering.
 
Old 01-24-2010, 08:08 PM   #159
Didier Spaier
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IMHO the sudo's command as used by Ubuntu users (eg. sudo su -) only purpose is to remind them that they should be careful about what they are doing - nothing about security understood as "protection against malevolence" as only the regular users' password is requested. For that su is a better protection (at least if the attacker has no physical access to your machine and can't reboot it remotely).
 
Old 01-24-2010, 11:03 PM   #160
itsbrad212
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As much as I hate when people say this (I really hate it), it is up to you which one you like better. No questions asked

Last edited by itsbrad212; 01-25-2010 at 01:46 AM.
 
Old 01-29-2010, 04:54 PM   #161
SCerovec
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Slackware is an english word for saying:
"Ubuntu is too hard for me..." *



*- to upgrade


If I was really brave I would use Ubuntu, but I'm a coward, i use Slackware )
 
Old 01-29-2010, 11:09 PM   #162
itsbrad212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCerovec View Post
Slackware is an english word for saying:
"Ubuntu is too hard for me..." *



*- to upgrade


If I was really brave I would use Ubuntu, but I'm a coward, i use Slackware )
haha yeah. Thats why I use arch. I think ubuntu should convert to a rolling release
 
Old 05-08-2010, 08:54 AM   #163
lpreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbrad212 View Post
Um that is still using sudo
I actually find this rather funny. It as always been possible to enable the root account in Ubuntu and hasn't changed with any new releases.

Simply:
Code:
$sudo passwd root
You will be prompted for a new password for root and it'll be all set up. You can even log in as root at the GNOME prompt (or KDE if you use Kubuntu).
 
Old 05-08-2010, 09:18 AM   #164
tommcd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpreams View Post
You can even log in as root at the GNOME prompt (or KDE if you use Kubuntu).
Note that enabling the root account in Ubuntu is not recommended.
If you are in the habit of logging in as root on Ubuntu, you will, as a matter of certainty, have problems. This is guaranteed.
I have been using Ubuntu since the initial release of Ubuntu 4.10. I have never found it necessary or beneficial to enable the root account in Ubuntu.
It is your system though, so do what you want.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 09:26 AM   #165
Didier Spaier
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New existential question revealed

sudo or not sudo, that is the question

Better read Gullivers' Travels...

By the way, do you prefer cracking your soft-boiled eggs from the little end or from the big end?
 
  


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