Slackware for a linux newbies?
Okay, so, I'm setting up a computer for my aunt to give to her kids to use for school, and I've decided to set it up with slackware 13.1.
these kids have no linux experience, and she wants to make sure they don't get viruses, don't have access to the system with admin rights (so, no root passwords for them), and she needs them to be able to do homework and surf the web. I decided to go with slackware because I'm going to be doing all the administrative work for this box anyway, since I'm the only one in the family who knows computers, so I want a system that works well and won't get in my way when I need to fix something, and I want something that's very difficult to break. Slackware seems perfect, in this respect. The machine is a bit slow, but it can run KDE well enough, and I'll set it to default runlevel 4 with KDE's login manager, etc. and I'll install the wicd network manager from /extras my question to the forum, then, is: What else should I set up, to make the transition from Novice Windows users, to clueless slackware users, as painless as possible? or, should I just give up on a newbie-friendly slackbox and install something like Fedora? |
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I'm not sure how to do this from the KDE end, but for Gnome I make sure systems have all of the gstreamer* packages so that many codecs are available. Also I find that the vlc-plugin for Firefox never works, so I go with Gnome's Totem plugin.
In short, make sure you've got plugins/codecs set up to be used on the web. I see nothing wrong with Slackware. I use Arch personally, but if you're going to be doing all of the admin stuff, no reason to go with Fedora or Ubuntu (or derivs). |
Also, as much as I hate to deal with this, a lot of teachers only have Microsoft Office. You might want to install it under wine. It runs pretty well. I have a whole icon theme, .desktops, and mime-types set up for this if you decide to go down that route.
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If KDE is too resource intensive you can also try gnome slackbuild (http://gnomeslackbuild.org/) its less resource intensive and it looks similiar to XP. It might make the transition smoother for them. Just a thought. I Also Agree with hitest about Xfce, it's great and less resource intensive than KDE.
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Go with Slackware. I am sure that the kids will love it; and before you know it their knowledge and understanding of the system may even surpass yours, kids learn extremely easy and fast. :D IMHO the Slackware experience will be very beneficial to them.
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You could also go with LXDE (building instructions here), which is the lightest fully-featured desktop environment I've come by (even more so than XFCE). The menu structure is intuitive and the possibilities of customization are very broad. It also runs KDE applications without any trouble, should you need that.
-A |
I would recommend for a newbie Salix, because it is nearly 100% compatible to slackware and in some important cases more user-friendly than native slackware. Salix is running xfce by default, but there is also a LXDE-version available.
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Thanks for all the useful replies, all!
I use XFCE as my default for all of my own machines, actually, but KDE has always seemed more new-user-friendly, to me, and when I've had non-linux-users use my machines they seem to prefer KDE to XFCE or Fluxbox. If KDE is too heavy for this system though, XFCE will be fine, and they may like the useful right-click menu :) I almost forgot about all the codecs and such, to be honest, but yeah I'll have to remember to set up all that & the flash plugin etc. before I let the kids get online - they'd probably have panic attacks if they found out youtube won't play any videos because I forgot to add flash, haha. I don't really have Access to Microsoft's office suite, and I'm doing this for free as a favour to my aunt, so I don't have the money to go out and buy a copy, I was going to do a full slackware install which comes with Kpresenter/Kword/etc. for their school work, and I may add Open Office. If needed I can set up Microsoft's office tools later, once my aunt get's a copy, but for now I don't think it will be a major issue. I have another question: she wants me to set up child blocks to keep her kid's away from pornographic websites (especially the older one who's already been caught on such sites), I've never looked into this, so is there a way to set web content filters for Firefox and Konquerer? |
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This is not going to be a Slackware issue but how well you are able setup the DE or Desktop for the users. And their adaptation to that environment. As admin your task is to make things transparent thus their adaptation to the DE will be the issue along with applications. Find out what the school or class dictates for the student presentation or assignment requirements. Some schools require a M$ 'doc' format while others will have open means of input. Sometimes the final doc will be paper that decides how well the presentation(s) are accepted. You will loose some format using alien apps but it can be done via Wine if you have a licensed M$ app(limited). You could setup a VM for a Licensed M$ Win for that use but again another layer for the new user. Look at General Academic section of 'Slackware-Links'. More than just SlackwareŽ links! Several good links for academic. :hattip: |
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http://dansguardian.org/?page=whatisdg |
All good options mentioned above. If it's a 32bit system then flash should be easier and better. Additionally, I would think hard about what office solution you decide to put on there. If a teacher expects digital paperwork in a .doc file and formatting must be perfect, then you should go with the real M$ Office. Other than that, either KDE's Office or Open Office will work. However, I find that if somebody has used M$ Office exclusively, they become extremely frustrated when Open Office does things slightly differently. To which I replay, "then don't use .doc or .xls files" and "they are different programs, don't expect OO to be a clone."
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As for the file formatting for the papers, neither I nor my Aunt know what format digital copies are expected to be in, but they have a printer, and She's never run into a teacher in from that school who will refuse a hard-copy if it's all the student's can manage, so I don't expect too many problems regarding the format, as I said though, if they MUST use .doc or something like that, then I'll get it running for her in WINE as soon as she can get a copy of MSoffice.
as for their ability to break it - the reason I'm doing this is because they've gotten so many viruses/malware that they 'broke' the system I'm fixing for them, and damaged my aunts newer computer to the point where she no longer wants them to use it for fear of loosing everything important she has on it. (I'm also going to be setting up an AV, doing a backup, etc. of that computer later on). I doubt they'll be able to break a slackware system - they will have their own limited user accounts with login name, password, etc. (one for each of them), that way they have their own /home/ to play in, and they can't break each others settings or the system in general. I'll give their mother the passwords so she can check in on them (another request she had) and I'll probably be the only one logging in as root at any time. The reason for installing wicd is because she's not sure what she's going to do as far as 'net access for them goes and if she decides to have a wireless network setup or something I want it to be simple for her to connect them to it and handle whatever encryption she sets up for it, just to simplify matters a bit on her end, once they get the network set up it's just a matter of clicking the "automatically connect me to this network" box and they can forget all about wicd from then on, simple enough for me to talk her through it over the phone :). They have uses MSoffice exclusively, but not so much that they will be unable to adjust to KDE's office suite quickly - they don't use keyboard shortcuts or anything for MS anyway, so they can look through the menus just as easily for Kword as they can for MSword. Thank you for the link repo, I wasn't aware of any open source web-content filters. |
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Someone asked the kids do they want have a Linux? It should their choice. If they want to use Windows let them use Windows. My concern are games. I cannot imagine a kid doesn't playing games. Personally I witnessed a situation where a boy refused to use Linux (Aurox) - beacause .. for no reason. But all kids are like that. |
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Just my opinion ... tyc |
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It's been the best, in my experience, I switched over from using primarily fedora to using slackware on all my systems, |
Fedora with its 6 month update cycles and constant package dependency issues would be a horrible choice for this purpose. OpenSUSE would be a better suggestion - at least that has an 18 month lifetime.
Personally, I find Slackware is what you make of it, which is why I run it. Pat and his band of helpers are a very small operation. You simply can't expect much in the way of support from them. Thankfully the helpful folk who live in this forum try and fill the gap as best they can and for the most part it works out quite well. It's the overall experience that counts, and for me it's been mostly positive. |
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http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...roblem-795807/ |
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I've used most of the distros out there and I think that Slackware tops the list for me; Slackware is stable, secure, and speedy. The Slackware developers regularly post in this forum; I think that the support given in this forum is second to none(we do expect that Slackware users will do some leg work here.) |
The availability of GNOME software should be a consideration. Even with GnomeSlackBuild installed, I've found it impossible to install gtkglextmm, which VisualBoyAdvance-Merge requires for is GTK GUI.
(And yes, I know you can build VisualBoyAdvance-Merge without its GTK GUI. That's a less ideal solution). |
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@tyc
I didn't think Fedora is a good choice. That distro is a testing lab for RHEL. If someone likes to be volunteer tester then go ahead and use Fedora. |
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Considering this machine is primarily for school, and surfing the 'net, Stability and ease of maintenance is a huge factor, they don't need the latest and greatest, they just need it to work, and I just need to be able to keep it working with as few headaches as possible. So, I think Slackware will be my best choice. I can set up everything I need from slackbuilds and the native package management without the occasional (although, I admit rare) headaches I've had from yum or apt being a concern, and I've never had a problem compiling from source on slackware. All the administrative and maintenance work will be up to me anyway, including package management, so the repos that come with fedora, ubuntu, etc. wouldn't be all that helpful anyway. I've been toying with one of my own slackboxes to see how well it'll work, and so far I think KDE with runlevel 4 for the GUI log-on screen, and koffice with firefox as the default browser etc. is going to be more than enough for what they need. (it's actually the same age/type of computer, only in slightly rougher shape - I got it from my grandmother when she decided she wanted to replace it - so I get to see how well the hardware handles everything I plan to do, even.) |
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You are not, in any way, helping. Those who can read and learn how to use the command-line (and understand what they are doing when they do so) will have little trouble with Slackware. That doesn't mean they will *like* it -- that's subjective. You, however, are basing your opinion of Slackware on your inability to get it to work -- and instead of blaming yourself for jumping in head first without bothering to learn the Linux command-line or reading about the philosophies of Slackware, you have decided to blame the distribution itself. There are plenty of us that enjoy using Slackware, and plenty that don't. You don't. We get it. You don't need to come in here and spam FUD every time you see an opportunity. Why do you continue to visit the Slackware boards? Be happy with Fedora; it's not a bad distribution. But if it was the *only* distribution, I would be using Windows. |
to try and get this thread back towards the topic:
I set up the machine with slackware13.1 and made limited user accounts for everyone. set the inittab to default runlevel 4, using KDE's login manager to make it look a bit less scary when the system finishes booting (I kept the transparent boot process though). KDE is a tad slow to start up but once it gets running it's still faster than the old windowsXP install was. my aunt hasn't come by to pick it up yet so I don't know how her kids are going to take to it, yet. no difficulties on the install, no funky hardware or compatibility issues, everything worked out of the box, which is always nice. |
I'd recommend OpenOffice before the KDE office suit. OpenOffice is very good as a drop in MSoffice replacement until you have to start sharing documents between the two computers. If they need to hand in digital copies of their work, just export it to pdf first and hand that in. Alternatively, go for the hard copy.
In terms of Slackware itself, my experience is that once its been properly set up for your general user, ie. flash has been installed, net configured, preferred apps have been set up etc, everything is fine and the user shouldn't have to jump into the console in their day to day life. |
Please don't feed the troll. I'd hate to see another thread derailed by a rant about slackbuilds and openoffice.
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It all depends on which level of access the person using the machine has.
I do all my work on my Slackware machine and sent PDFs when it was something I needed to be platform-independent like resumes. Everyone in my family could use my machine to do the things I do. I would not, however, suggest that everyone should install Slackware or configure it. I have complete faith that I can set up a machine that will run for years on end without fail; as long as my users use the interfaces I provide them with, things won't crack. The second people get creative, though, all is lost. |
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I love it... |
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I started on Fedora in a dual boot with winXP, and early on tried Slackware 12.something and it didn't work out too well - I installed it over my old Windows partition, but I didn't know the command line well enough to get it running properly and "startx" didn't work properly the first time I typed it, and I didn't know how to configure lilo and locked myself out of my Fedora partition. So, I reinstalled Fedora over it, and used my spare partition to try out different distros, because Fedora was getting annoying (stability issues almost every time I updated, some things broke, some things never worked etc.) after distro hopping a bit, I decided to give slackware another try, since I had gotten much better with the linux CLI and understood it better... and now, I have slackware installed on all my machines. Back at the point: Are there any other suggestions for porn-filtering? I haven't gotten to try out Dansguardian yet, but just in case it doesn't work out well I'd appreciate any other suggestions the forum comes up with. also - are there any decent plugins/addons for firefox to help block them? - they aren't really tech-savy so I don't think the ease-of-removal would be an issue, and it might be a simpler solution. (or, at the very least, a nice way to teach them how customizable firefox can be) |
I started with Linux because a fellow gave me two IBM PC 300s, so I had extra computers to play with.
I set up one for my daughter with Slack 10.0 and KDE. I also installed (it's been a long time) Open Office and Opera and a few other odds and ends. I shipped it to her with a print out telling her how to log on and startx. (The other one I set up as a webserver--that was a learning experience! It took me about three months to get it where I wanted it, then it worked flawlessly until my MySQL database just outgrew the old Pentium chip.) All she wanted to do was email and web and word processing. I never got support call number one from her and she used it for years, until, after she got married, her husband wanted a computer capable of editing video (the chip in the one I gave her was not capable of video). So much for Slackware being too hard for newbies. |
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http://alien.slackbook.org/dokuwiki/...lackware:proxy I use dansguardian for the actual content filtering and tinyproxy for the traffic redirection (but you could use squid just as well for that). The above two solutions are still running on my home network today. Eric |
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They won't be on a local network, their mother just wants them to have their own desktop for school work and web browsing and whatever else it is they do that manages to load her windows machines with malware, so a local content filter is all they need, once they have this machine, they'll be refused access to their house's other computers anyway. |
Even if you switched to xfce for performance gains, you can still install the bits of kde that you might want on such a system, and there are lots of third party apps that provide education, and others that provide entertainment; loading their system up with some of the best free open source software, often software which is even better than windows counterparts, is a great way to keep them loving their slackbox over former winboxes.
Here's a list of some of the educational apps that come to mind:
Good to make sure their mobile accessories mount automagically with fstab entries and correct group and permission settings. Ipods are such a pain that I steer clear of them, and lean towards droid phones, which mount easily enough and make it easy to control your own media. Sane/Xsane has gotten way better at recognizing scanners without having to manually create udev rules. Gimp is great on photo editing, and is part of standard slackware install. Audacity can help them record themselves or record internet streams, etc. I'm sure there's heaps of others that I've overlooked, but I think having awesome software at their disposal is the best way to keep them from having to go back to windows or mac, because they are happier with their slacbox. And, regretably, I have on occasion had weird things happen, like apps start opening up with super large fonts, or my panels disappear, and other quirky window behavior; and in most of these instances, deleting the session's cache in the ~/.cache and then logging out and logging back in fixed it. So having some clickable icon that cleans a corrupt cache file helps too. |
I know most KDE apps will still run under XFCE (I do it on my own machines a lot) but, KDE has a bit more eye-candy, and it might not be as speedy, but it runs better than windows did on this machine still, and in my experience people coming over from windows vista/7 seem to like KDE better than Gnome/XFCE.
I've been looking at educational applications - a slack full install comes with quite a few and there's a lot over at slackbuilds and such, I'll have their mother look through some of them and see if she sees anything she wants me to add on. as for games... I'm not sure this machine can handle much - they like to play flash games on sites like addictinggames.com, I've gone to the site and it seems to work fine on my own slackware boxes, so, I don't think they'll be too bored, might be a little bit slower than they're use too though (their mother's machine is 2GB and I'm not sure about the processor). They don't play windows games or games from stores etc. on their PCs - they use an Xbox or Playstation or wii for stuff like that, so the lack of windows games won't be noticed as far as I can tell. They don't use photoshop or anything now, so if they get started on photo editing they'll be using GIMP, and won't have to break any old habits or re-learn anything, which is nice - people who've never used photoshop seem to take to GIMP a lot faster than long-time photoshop users. I hadn't thought about audio recording or anything - I'll grab the slackbuild for Audacity as soon as the machine is online though :) thanks for the link to the slackbuild. I've had very few problems like that with Slackware13.1, the only one that comes to mind is KDE's defaults resetting on me once, but killing X and starting KDE again fixed it. So, I've found another potential future slacker, a friend of mine might be taking another old machine I fixed up, just so she has a desktop of her own to surf the web and such for when she's at home. No games, No hard work, nothing rough on the system at all, she just needs to browse the web and edit text - she's getting a new laptop for all her university work and such, so I don't need to do anything except install flash, really. I'll just be setting up a new user account, deleting my user account, changing the password for root, and setting it to default runlevel 4 :) and I'll be teaching her how to use the new OS because she's coming over from only ever using windows. |
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As part of my ongoing learning in the world of Linux, I just downloaded my Slackware 13.1 files with the intention of creating my ISO CDs. My plans for Slackware is to build a simple file server. I originally two built two servers (both headless) for this purpose using Ubuntu Server Hardy which was pretty straight forward. I have 2 data drives for storage in each server with Samba for sharing. For admin duties, I have Webmin and SSH connectivity. Although the second server was running and ready for use, I wanted a challenge so I decided to rebuild it using Slackware. Once I learn the ropes in creating the ISOs and going through the install, I'll eventually have it set up similar with Samba, SSH, and Webmin. |
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Good luck with the slackware server, I've used linux on desktops, laptops, and netbooks as a development platform and for general computing, surfing the web, etc. but never for a server, yet. |
Here is an article on using Tux for education:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/teaching-tux and some more: http://www.foogazi.com/2008/03/25/ed...-for-children/ http://polishlinux.org/apps/educatio...s-in-gnulinux/ http://os.cqu.edu.au/oslinux/README.html |
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