Originally Posted by T3slider
You shouldn't eat fish because of the trees. What? You don't understand my logic?
Let's see if some years from now you understand my logic. ;-)
Save all I've written in this thread to a txt and backup it to a
CD. Read it again ten years from now. If you still don't
understand do it again twenty years from now and so on.
One day you'll may want to apologize. The key is roquesor.
There is no need to patronise. Just granting yourself a sense of supreme knowledge and entitlement does not all of a sudden make your argument logical.
When kikinovak told me about GPS, motorcycles and milk I could
answer him "What relation have motorcycles and milk with
systemd?" But, without consuming drugs and not having any
supreme knowledge, I am able to understand an analogy.
Besides rational, you need abstraction and association
capabilities. And what is more important, maturity. All that
will not grant you a supreme knowledge but at least you will not
chatter away like Mercury305 does (hey, he is a clever guy and he
is not bad intentioned; just a bit annoying and naive).
There are two points I agree with Stallman. 1) He consider the
social-human aspect of the issue more relevant than the
technical one. 2) He assumes you will be disposed to renounce
to some privileges to stay coherent with your cause.
Saying it simple: I find that who really miss the point are
those that blame GPL just because they are not able to run some
software on linux. More specially when the software
is a stupid toy.
I used the hyperbole "people suffering starvation" (in part to
follow the kikinovak "food" analogy) like an example of the most
important human resource in the aim of extending the
"priorities" to the whole human-social context (what you
expect of somebody talking about ethical behind of individuals
rights). Your lecture should be "You are complaining about
something that is not relevant to (and coherent with) the
context of the ideas of who (Stallman) you criticize".
Taking in care you felt entitled to discredit my logic even
without having read what I wrote (and without explaining why you
think that, what could be considered a plain insult) I will not
advice you to save it to a CD; the second time you will do the
same. That's what humble people like you use to do: "If I don't
understand (at a first sight) is because it has no logic".
But you don't offend me at all; I guess the average audience
here is too much younger than me; that's why some of you doesn't
understand my approach. Besides patronizing, what option I had
in front of some kind of comments?
For example, you said : "the idea that users have any real power
is such an idealistic and unrealistic view of the world".
Whithout the aim of insulting, your point of view can be
anything but mature.
When I talked about users I meant "the masses" not the
individual. You, me and even Volkering or Linus have no power
at all in front of "supply and demand". If most people likes
red apples (yes, about food again) and only you like green ones
take for sure the green apples will almost disappear from
stores. That's real world. For example, you will see RedHat
doing the same that Microsoft in some ways, because both
companies are evil? No, to survive in the market they are
subordinated to "supply and demand". Why Microsoft would think
about selling green apples? The farther your projects are from
what "most people do" the harder will be for you to acomplish
them, and like a side effect, the more the privileges you will be
forced to renounce to keep coherent with your cause.
Again read carefully what I've written and (while you don't feel
yourself "the owner of True") if you don't understand, at least
give me the benefit of the doubt.
Now, about systemd (I will over explain for those with low
association capabilities). Do you think that those that
complain about systemd are because some tech feature? Is it
about if systemd is a good or bad piece of software or if it get
the job done? Absolutely not. Some users have other concerns
at time to administer a Linux system than installing software
with Debian Synaptic. For example, you can learn to manage a
server with Mandriva Control Center, but what will you do in
front of a RedHat, Debian or Slackware machine, installing
Mandrake Wizards? :-) In a web server; do you think you need
cPanel? Do you think you need phpMyAdmin? Anyway you will be
forced to use them just because it is "what most people want".
I tried hardly to use Slackware like web server on a VPS (I
explained about it in other post in this forum). After a year
of having pointless discussions with more than twenty companies
around the world I had to end using CentOS (in a reseller).
Supply and demand. Now each time I want to make a modification,
like updating my custom CA (certificate authority) I must to
explain the supposed "Linux Techs" how to edit apache config
files because they just know how to do it using cPanel. Those
people have no concerns about systemd because they ignore (and
have no interest on) how to edit a config file or a shell
Other example, I had ftp access to an important university site
(because a client of mine has a web page there). Just after
taking a look (a Solaris OS) I see two backups of the shadow
file with world readable permissions. I downloaded it to my
machine and after seconds john the ripper cracked more than 30
passwords (most of them "cocacola"). With some of them I get
ssh access. That's the kind of *supposed* Unix admins that think
that administering Unix from guied wizards is the modern approach.
Finally, I am a very, very rare person, in the sense I will
accept a good argument even if it goes against my personal
(immediate) interests. On the contrary, most people will
ignore, attack or even kill you (this is not an hyperbole) just
to defend a stupid vicious habit. The today's widespread drugs
Hey, I will no paraphrase again. Be equally exigent with your
thinking than you are with the others.