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Old 01-14-2018, 07:50 PM   #31
Roboto
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bassmadrigal:

http://termbin.com/9d0q
 
Old 01-14-2018, 09:45 PM   #32
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Unfortunately, based on that output, I'm guessing your card is not supported by the 16.50 driver as once it loads all the amdgpu stuff, it switches to the vesa driver. That's probably why you only get one monitor.
 
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:10 PM   #33
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Why does AMD's stuff suck such gassy monkey bum in Linux?
 
Old 01-14-2018, 10:14 PM   #34
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Why does AMD's stuff suck such gassy monkey bum in Linux?
Well, amdgpu is still relatively new, but AMD has always had relatively poor support with their proprietary drivers. I don't see this changing anytime soon

But, their open-source drivers are the best, especially with the updates in the 4.15 kernel (although, you need an upgraded X and mesa to take full benefit from it).
 
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:44 PM   #35
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What if I changed cards to the rx560, would that sort out some issues?
 
Old 01-15-2018, 03:15 AM   #36
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It is appalling that a company of AMD's means and resources release inadequate software. They may as well release nothing at all. What a waste of everyone's time. This AMD's responsibility and they did not even drop the ball, they never even bothered to make a ball at all. What a horrid company.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 10:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
It is appalling that a company of AMD's means and resources release inadequate software. They may as well release nothing at all. What a waste of everyone's time. This AMD's responsibility and they did not even drop the ball, they never even bothered to make a ball at all. What a horrid company.
Agreed, on the graphics side; the CPU side is a lot better. I switched to NVIDIA shortly after I learned about the end of support for Catalyst drivers, which only support X.org server 17.x, which is in the 14.1 era, if I'm not mistaken. I'm currently sporting a GTX 1070, and have much better support.
 
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:30 PM   #38
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What if I changed cards to the rx560, would that sort out some issues?
I believe so. The Polaris series of cards supposedly had amdgpu support from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
It is appalling that a company of AMD's means and resources release inadequate software. They may as well release nothing at all. What a waste of everyone's time. This AMD's responsibility and they did not even drop the ball, they never even bothered to make a ball at all. What a horrid company.
Keep in mind that they do support 4 different distros, and Slackware isn't one of them. My script just kinda hacks all those packages together to hopefully work properly on Slackware. As far as I know, users on Ubuntu, SLES, RedHat, or CentOS aren't having the same issues other distros are, likely because the drivers are tailored to the software on those systems. Also, older cards weren't the priority with amdgpu since they were still well supported by other drivers (this is why Southern Islands are still considered experimental with amdgpu).

AMD's focus just isn't on their proprietary driver anymore. Their focus is on the open source side. They recently added, pretty much single-handedly, over 130,000 lines of code to the kernel for their AMDGPU Display Code support. It brings the open source driver to almost feature parity with their Windows driver. In fact, the open source driver now far surpasses performance of their closed source driver in games. They are also working on an open source implementation of OpenCL called ROCm (Radeon Open Compute).

However great the benefits of the open source driver to the community, it is unfortunate that their proprietary driver is so difficult to use by other distros.
 
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:04 PM   #39
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Hi Bassmadrigal,

I have tried to run the AMD GPU Pro drivers on RHEL, CentOS, and Ubuntu well before trying on Slackware. Absolutely none of them worked. I Installed the exact OS stipulated on the AMD drivers site, the exact version and the drivers give me a blank screen, or locked me out of the OS, or kept me on the command line, GUI-less. I have to disagree with the performance of the 'free' (non-libre blobbed drivers, actually) AMD drivers surpassing that of Windows (I don't game, so maybe it is a marvel of graphics wizardry). The main motivation behind installing AMDGPUPRO is for video editing. On Linux, I have tried to use Cinelerra, Kdenlive, Blender (as an NLE) and have even tried to use DaVinci Resolve and Lightworks (the latter two are proprietary, but have Linux builds and does not run properly and crashes) and all have issues. Issues meaning I cannot even see a small project to completion without serious, glaring issues. Shotcut seems the best candidate but hardly seems a 'pro-tool'. The Linux based editors have serious lags or crashes or simply freeze. So you are probably thinking, well, the graphics card is the culprit, right? Except that on the Windows side, with my setup, I can run Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects and see projects to completion. I can even run DaVinci Resolve to see projects to completion, although it does complain that I do not have enough GPU RAM sometimes. So, if AMD GPU drivers are so darn great, why is it that all video projects are stillborn on the Linux side? I have tried MESA, which is pretty good, but not good enough for video editing. Apparently the open drivers are good for gaming, but when it comes to getting video work done, you may as well throw in the towel. So I figured, based on some research, to install the proprietary AMD GPU Pro drivers on Linux. I mean, back when Catalyst was a thing, I figured, 'well that worked, so why not this?'. It turns out that AMD GPU PRO drivers for Linux is this mythical fairytale piece of software that you hear about but never actually see working. Why is that? Well, most computers on this planet run Windows so AMD puts all their effort to making sure their drivers work on Windows. You look at the Windows AMD driver install process and the pointless, existential nightmare of the Linux experience and you would swear they are two different companies. After my experiences, you mentioned that AMD GPU Pro can be installed on Slackware...so I gave it a shot. Not that I blame you for trying, thanks for that. I appreciate it. But it is depressing. Really, my hardware should be good enough to video edit on Linux, but this is really not the case. Video editing on Linux...that is still years away it seems. I say to AMD what Linux Torvalds said to Nvidia.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 02:22 PM   #40
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Hi Bassmadrigal,

I have tried to run the AMD GPU Pro drivers on RHEL, CentOS, and Ubuntu well before trying on Slackware. Absolutely none of them worked. I Installed the exact OS stipulated on the AMD drivers site, the exact version and the drivers give me a blank screen, or locked me out of the OS, or kept me on the command line, GUI-less. I have to disagree with the performance of the 'free' (non-libre blobbed drivers, actually) AMD drivers surpassing that of Windows (I don't game, so maybe it is a marvel of graphics wizardry). The main motivation behind installing AMDGPUPRO is for video editing. On Linux, I have tried to use Cinelerra, Kdenlive, Blender (as an NLE) and have even tried to use DaVinci Resolve and Lightworks (the latter two are proprietary, but have Linux builds and does not run properly and crashes) and all have issues. Issues meaning I cannot even see a small project to completion without a freeze, crash, or slowdown to a tranqulized crawl. Shotcut seems the best candidate but hardly seems a 'pro-tool'. The Linux based editors have serious lags or crashes or simply freeze. So you are probably thinking, well, the graphics card is the culprit, right? Except that on the Windows side, with my setup, I can run Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects and see projects to completion. I can even run DaVinci Resolve to see projects to completion, although it does complain that I do not have enough GPU RAM sometimes. So, if AMD GPU drivers are so darn great, why is it that all video projects are stillborn on the Linux side? I have tried MESA, which is pretty good, but not good enough for video editing. Apparently the open drivers are good for gaming, but when it comes to getting video work done, you may as well throw in the towel. So I figured, based on some research, to install the proprietary AMD GPU Pro drivers on Linux. I mean, back when Catalyst was a thing, I figured, 'well that worked, so why not this?'. It turns out that AMD GPU PRO drivers for Linux is this mythical fairytale piece of software that you hear about but never actually see working. Why is that? Well, most computers on this planet run Windows so AMD puts all their effort to making sure their drivers work on Windows. You look at the Windows AMD driver install process and the pointless, existential nightmare of the Linux experience and you would swear they are two different companies. After my experiences, you mentioned that AMD GPU Pro can be installed on Slackware...so I gave it a shot. Not that I blame you for trying, thanks for that. I appreciate it. But it is depressing. Really, my hardware should be good enough to video edit on Linux, but this is really not the case. Video editing on Linux...that is still years away it seems. I say to AMD what Linux Torvalds said to Nvidia.

Last edited by Roboto; 01-15-2018 at 02:29 PM.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 03:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
I have tried to run the AMD GPU Pro drivers on RHEL, CentOS, and Ubuntu well before trying on Slackware. Absolutely none of them worked. I Installed the exact OS stipulated on the AMD drivers site, the exact version and the drivers give me a blank screen, or locked me out of the OS, or kept me on the command line, GUI-less.
That's odd. I haven't seen reports of that, but my involvement with those other OSes is what is brought up in Phoronix or /r/Linux on reddit. But Southern Island support has always been experimental with amdgpu as they've focused on their newer cards that aren't supported by the radeon driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
I have to disagree with the performance of the 'free' (non-libre blobbed drivers, actually) AMD drivers surpassing that of Windows (I don't game, so maybe it is a marvel of graphics wizardry).
The new AMDGPU Display Code in 4.15 brings "feature parity" to Linux, not necessarily the same performance. Now that (almost?) all the features are there, they can work on improving the performance with subsequent additions to the kernel and mesa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
The main motivation behind installing AMDGPUPRO is for video editing. On Linux, I have tried to use Cinelerra, Kdenlive, Blender (as an NLE) and have even tried to use DaVinci Resolve and Lightworks (the latter two are proprietary, but have Linux builds and does not run properly and crashes) and all have issues. Issues meaning I cannot even see a small project to completion without serious, glaring issues. Shotcut seems the best candidate but hardly seems a 'pro-tool'. The Linux based editors have serious lags or crashes or simply freeze. So you are probably thinking, well, the graphics card is the culprit, right? Except that on the Windows side, with my setup, I can run Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects and see projects to completion. I can even run DaVinci Resolve to see projects to completion, although it does complain that I do not have enough GPU RAM sometimes. So, if AMD GPU drivers are so darn great, why is it that all video projects are stillborn on the Linux side?
It is pretty well known (for those that follow it) that the open source amdgpu drivers outperform the proprietary driver with games, but still lags behind it in regards to other performance like OpenCL like applications. I'm also not sure how close the open source amdgpu driver is in comparison to Windows in games, since that is where the amdgpu driver really shines in Linux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
I have tried MESA, which is pretty good, but not good enough for video editing. Apparently the open drivers are good for gaming, but when it comes to getting video work done, you may as well throw in the towel. So I figured, based on some research, to install the proprietary AMD GPU Pro drivers on Linux. I mean, back when Catalyst was a thing, I figured, 'well that worked, so why not this?'. It turns out that AMD GPU PRO drivers for Linux is this mythical fairytale piece of software that you hear about but never actually see working. Why is that? Well, most computers on this planet run Windows so AMD puts all their effort to making sure their drivers work on Windows. You look at the Windows AMD driver install process and the pointless, existential nightmare of the Linux experience and you would swear they are two different companies.
This could all be related to your specific GPU and the proprietary driver. It may just not be properly supported by the drivers we've installed and the drivers that do support it can't be installed into Slackware (at least without patches that I'm not smart enough to create).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboto View Post
After my experiences, you mentioned that AMD GPU Pro can be installed on Slackware...so I gave it a shot. Not that I blame you for trying, thanks for that. I appreciate it. But it is depressing. Really, my hardware should be good enough to video edit on Linux, but this is really not the case. Video editing on Linux...that is still years away it seems. I say to AMD what Linux Torvalds said to Nvidia.
Yeah, we can honestly say we gave it a shot. However, based on other threads/users, I do know that the driver (at least some versions) work on Slackware, but it seems the differing factor is your GPU. AMD has pathetic release notes and it's hard to tell exactly what is supported and when.

Unfortunately, in the proprietary game, Nvidia reigns king and has excellent Linux driver support. But the opposite can be said of their open source driver. I guess you have to look at what your ideals are (proprietary vs open source) and what your use of that card entails (gaming vs other) and that will help you make the deciding factor in what video card to buy. But it certainly does suck when this realization comes after you've already purchased a video card.

I would be interested to see if your experience would differ drastically with an RX 560...
 
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Old 01-15-2018, 03:54 PM   #42
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Hey Bassmadrigal,

Nuh-uh, my card is specifically listed in the AMD drivers list for Ubuntu/RHEL/CentOS--and the driver specifically does not work. If the people can get Linux graphics to work for gaming, then it *should* work for video editing too. Interestingly, I know people who do compositing work for major Hollywood studio films who run programs like Nuke, and their OS is Linux. That is because they can afford full-time engineers/IT specialists to make damn sure it works. For DaVinci Resolve, you can run it on Linux, 100%, if you drop $30K+ USD on their workstation console. I would love to edit video with Linux using open drivers, or even better, Stallman approved Libre drivers, but we are in the early days. What interests/obsesses me (now) is a program called Cinelerra, which is supposed to be professional video editing software which I would love to get into---except for the crashes/slowdown. Blender is powerful as an NLE, but my computer gags on that, even in Windows (I get the blue spinning Windows circle when my footage passes a certain point and 'program does not respond'). For audio editing, though, Linux used to be a non candidate, and now I can do amazing things on it, except for noise removal (I'm not talking audacity noise removal, I am talking about Izotope level noise reduction. There is some noise removal plugins software for high end audio editing programs like Ardour, but they are in alpha at this stage. But Ardour and say, Calf studio gear...you can make awesome things with. For audio-for-video-post production, Ardour is pretty good. Proprietary programs like Reaper and Mixbus also run in Linux quite well. Video for Linux is (barely) at the threshold and I hope AMD can get it together and make it happen.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 04:19 PM   #43
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Nuh-uh, my card is specifically listed in the AMD drivers list for Ubuntu/RHEL/CentOS--and the driver specifically does not work.
Your card is Southern Islands which is still considered experimental. I imagine this is the biggest hurdle right now. I just don't think they are putting the required engineering efforts into their older cards as much as the new ones. Especially with the mining craze that benefits from the newest GPUs.

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If the people can get Linux graphics to work for gaming, then it *should* work for video editing too.
Keep in mind that video games and video editing are not the same. That is why there are multi-thousand dollar video cards for professionals and they don't work great for gaming (and why professionals don't throw in the highest end gaming card into their work machines). But I don't pretend to be smart enough to know what makes a card better for video editing over games.

I think the biggest hurdle for that is OpenCL, which I am still pretty uninformed on... but my understanding is that AMD's OpenCL implementation was covered with NDAs or other proprietary code not owned by AMD. That lead them to create their open source ROCm implementation, but I think you need the latest kernel, mesa, and X to take proper advantage of that. If those programs support ROCm, it'd be interesting to see how they'd perform when running the 4.15 kernel with the latest mesa and X.
 
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:59 PM   #44
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Hey Bassmadrigal,

So here is the driver page for Linux: https://imgur.com/a/81nUx and a link to the driver
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/linux

There is no note on drivers for the r7-240 being experimental or 'not there yet'. I tried it on Ubuntu 16.04, 17.04, 17.10, no dice.

Now your comment on graphics drivers for gaming and for graphics video/3D is true, to a point. It depends what kind of video editing we are talking about. Those thousands of dollars cards could be for 4k and up, maybe compositing too. You can do mathematical computing with a gaming card or a thousands of dollars card as well. As for video editing, I called AMD directly and the tech rep told me, for my budget, to get a gaming card. I figured, okay, maybe the guy is just wrong, so I called three more times and different reps gave me the same answer. (Of course, they can all be wrong) So yeah, you can do editing on a gaming card. Some pro videographers use gaming cards, come to think of it. I preferred to get the WX 5100 GPU (a workstation card) , but that keeps getting priced out of range with the crypto-miners. Plus, you have to get a display-port-to-hdmi (active) adapter, which, if you have multiple screens, gets pricey. So back to editing, I do short videos for local non-profits and small business and mini-docs. Animation would consist of animated titles and logos, not 'Tears of Steel' or 'Big Buck Bunny' type stuff. I do 1920 by 1080p, not 4K. My needs are simple editing (cut n' paste), with transitions and color grading and audio editing. The R7-240 I have, I would not even consider a gaming card. It is just a card, but handles Premiere Pro and After Effects in a pinch, which some video Jedi Knights like Philip Bloom uses.

So what's with using Linux for video editing if Adobe can handle it? Good question. Thematically, some of the videos I work on are community oriented, so I figure, why not use community software to edit? Just not possible now. Certainly, drivers are a part of it. It is also the software too. I am in touch with dev's who work on Cinelerra, for example, and they helped me clear some hurdles. My needs should be covered in Linux, but this is not the case yet.

As for driver performance for AMD graphics, I would say MESA on Ubuntu 17.04. Launching raw video footage and HD movies using VLC just flies. Games like 0AD run smooth. But run any video editor and you are screwed. I have a friend who has an AMD CPU that is more powerful than mine, and she experiences the same issues with video editing. Using the MESA drivers also makes Blender buggy, like hover a mouse over the interface and watch it flicker like something out of a David Lynch film, on both our machines. On her machine, Kdenlive works somewhat reasonably, on mine Shotcut is somewhat okay. So go figure.

I suspect that by the time Slack 15 is launched, the newer open/mesa drivers will be in place. Maybe it will perform better than Ubuntu.I suspect that Cinelerra will run better on Slack than on Ubuntu as well. Now Slackware just has legacy drivers and some Slackers still run Catalyst drivers. If I were king of the world, I would make AMD give Pat Volkerding a cheque and a dev team to make the drivers go. Or even better, give it to Stallman and let my drivah's growwwwww
 
Old 01-15-2018, 08:52 PM   #45
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So here is the driver page for Linux: https://imgur.com/a/81nUx and a link to the driver
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/linux

There is no note on drivers for the r7-240 being experimental or 'not there yet'. I tried it on Ubuntu 16.04, 17.04, 17.10, no dice.
It must've changed recently. It's hard to keep track of things since they remove their old release notes (which is absolutely stupid, but they don't listen to me). Unfortunately, it's hard to know when support for your card was added (or when it was removed from experimental status). But I do know as of kernel 4.14, the open source support for Southern/Sea Island cards is still considered experimental.

However, have you popped onto Ubuntu forums to see if you can get it working? I know many users do have it working on their cards. Maybe with some tweaking you can get the latest version working.

Quote:
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I suspect that by the time Slack 15 is launched, the newer open/mesa drivers will be in place. Maybe it will perform better than Ubuntu.I suspect that Cinelerra will run better on Slack than on Ubuntu as well. Now Slackware just has legacy drivers and some Slackers still run Catalyst drivers. If I were king of the world, I would make AMD give Pat Volkerding a cheque and a dev team to make the drivers go. Or even better, give it to Stallman and let my drivah's growwwwww
If you're interested, you can give Eric Hameleer's (aka Alien Bob, one of the core Slackware team members) Slackware Live a spin. It has the latest and greatest except for the 4.15 kernel (and it is likely you won't see that in Slackware 15 since I imagine Pat will stick with the LTS 4.14 kernel). It allows you to install software (and you could try the 17.40 driver I have for AMDGPU since it now has a new enough X to run it). This will at least give you an idea of where Slackware 15.0 is heading to.

Also, Slackware 14.2 doesn't support any of AMD's legacy drivers. With Catalyst, they only provided support up to Xorg 1.17, and 14.2 runs 1.18. There was no patching to get around that (like many did for unsupported kernels), so people had to stick with open source.
 
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