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Old 09-10-2019, 07:14 PM   #121
USUARIONUEVO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timsoft View Post
update for skaendo
llvm 8.0.1 is available in extra for 14.2, you don't have to go to current to get it.
read slow , he talks llvm 10
 
Old 09-10-2019, 08:26 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timsoft View Post
update for skaendo
llvm 8.0.1 is available in extra for 14.2, you don't have to go to current to get it.
LOL, I actually remembered that earlier today. I even thanked volkerdi when he added it to extra. I just haven't had the chance to use it yet.


Last edited by Skaendo; 09-10-2019 at 08:29 PM.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 02:01 PM   #123
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
My

I use Firefox exclusively.
Yeah me too, but I'm ready to move on - nothing is worth the fuss - i'd rather use Dillo than be jailed by any single piece of software again.

Also, Chromium is making ever more things that Firefox isn't and i do run the "latest" not the ESR version right now.

my 2c
 
Old 09-13-2019, 05:22 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by SCerovec View Post
Also, Chromium is making ever more things that Firefox isn't and i do run the "latest" not the ESR version right now.

my 2c
You might just as well use Windows if all your internet activity is done with Chrome(ium) and Google, or why not just buy an Apple computer and let your whole computer life be owned by a single company?

Firefox is not perfect, but it's not "you are owned by company X for purpose Y", even though Google has some creepy fingers in the Mozilla camp. There simply isn't a freedom alternative which is also a great browser. But at least Firefox is good enough in all ways. I'd encourage you to support that.
 
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:45 PM   #125
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There should be no problem making python -> python3 -> python3.whatever and let things explicitly use python2 -> python2.7 and if something old requires intervention to that effect, so be it. Current things that stubbornly need python2 (e.g. firefox build toolchain) do that.

That's already the way it is in other distros.
 
Old 09-13-2019, 04:04 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
You might just as well use Windows if all your internet activity is done with Chrome(ium) and Google, or why not just buy an Apple computer and let your whole computer life be owned by a single company?
I 100% agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Firefox is not perfect, but it's not "you are owned by company X for purpose Y", even though Google has some creepy fingers in the Mozilla camp. There simply isn't a freedom alternative which is also a great browser. But at least Firefox is good enough in all ways. I'd encourage you to support that.
What do you mean by "freedom alternative"? Something like this?: https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/

Firefox has had 10 years to update their python code, what are they waiting for?
 
Old 09-13-2019, 04:35 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
You might just as well use Windows if all your internet activity is done with Chrome(ium) and Google, or why not just buy an Apple computer and let your whole computer life be owned by a single company?

Firefox is not perfect, but it's not "you are owned by company X for purpose Y", even though Google has some creepy fingers in the Mozilla camp. There simply isn't a freedom alternative which is also a great browser. But at least Firefox is good enough in all ways. I'd encourage you to support that.
I really appreciate Your input, and as i stated before i do use Firefox - i switched from Seamonkey actually.

Just because Firefox could to most things - everything i cared for and then some.

All i say is, i can switch back to Seamonkey if Firefox can't cope with upgrading to python3 and we happen to lose it.

And for the few tidbits either cant render or fetch i can still occasionally fire up Chromium as i do with Firefox already anyway.


I greatly appreciate the freedom - be it due to Firefox or Seamonkey - both provided by the great Mozilla foundation.

But i will not hang my coat to neither should my freedom come to depend on it - i had Dillo run my facebook client - it was for fun and for a day - all i say is: where there is will, a way is found, where there is none - a excuse instead.

my further 2c

 
Old 09-13-2019, 11:41 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
You might just as well use Windows if all your internet activity is done with Chrome(ium) and Google, or why not just buy an Apple computer and let your whole computer life be owned by a single company?
Some of us just wants to use things as we see fit. Sure, most of the time, open source projects seem to be the best fit for the people visiting this forum, but for me, Firefox has been a pile of junk for years. It was slow and bloated and was slow to make changes (mimicking IE from so many years before when Firefox was making large strides). Chrome has always worked and it provides me what I want from a browser. The fact it syncs all my data between my phone and multiple computers is even better.

I loved Firefox. I used it while it was still Firebird and for many years later. But eventually I kept hearing about Chrome and gave it a try. It ran so much better on all of my systems. Chrome continually added features while Firefox continued to stagnate and stay bloated (and refused for so long to support multiple processes, meaning if there's a crash, it takes your whole browser rather than a few tabs). Then Firefox FINALLY came to Android, and their scrolling was vastly different from any other app and I couldn't stand it (I tried it for weeks at a time and was always frustrated with it). There were always tweaks people said you could make in about:config to make it similar to other apps, but it always felt off. Then when they finally fixed that, their UI was so atrocious that I couldn't stand using it. And I really wanted to use it since it supported add-ons like ublock-origin, but I just couldn't make it with that UI.

Firefox has continually pushed me away in the last 5-10 years and it doesn't surprise me at all when I look at usage statistics. They lagged behind Chrome for so long and are now in catch-up mode... plus now they want to force people into new profiles when they put out a new version? Screw that!

I don't really care about the ideals behind a software as long as it is doing what I need it to do. I don't use Slackware over Windows because it is open source. I am not a programmer and I wouldn't understand what I'm looking at if I look at the source code, but Slackware is able to be easily tailored to do what I want (unlike Windows) and it is mostly what I want after a first install. I feel the same with Chrome, even though that is closed source. I install a few extensions and sign in and I'm good to go. With Firefox, I feel like I need to spend 30 minutes in about:config to get it tweaked to be mostly the way I like it.

Maybe there's another better browser out there for me that will check all my boxes, but until I find Chrome annoying or enough raving about another one to try it, I don't foresee myself focusing on trying to find one any time soon.
 
Old 09-15-2019, 05:13 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCerovec View Post
I greatly appreciate the freedom - be it due to Firefox or Seamonkey - both provided by the great Mozilla foundation.
I like Firefox, but I'd still like to see a quality alternative. Konqueror is what webkit came from, so it was at some point (khtml) at the front of the race. About 10 years ago it was also a good alternative to Firefox. I've tried Epiphany as well, but I just don't think it has the needed functions. It was ok as a lightweight browser, but that was about it.

I kinda wish that Konqueror would have some kind of revival. The foundation is great, it's just not good at browsing the web anymore, many pages simply do not work or do not work as intended.
 
Old 09-15-2019, 05:16 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Some of us just wants to use things as we see fit. Sure, most of the time, open source projects seem to be the best fit for the people visiting this forum, but for me, Firefox has been a pile of junk for years. It was slow and bloated and was slow to make changes (mimicking IE from so many years before when Firefox was making large strides). Chrome has always worked and it provides me what I want from a browser. The fact it syncs all my data between my phone and multiple computers is even better.
Alright, stop right there. Firefox was the innovator among web browser quite from the getgo. Internet Explorer just looked old fashion and lacked basic functions one would want from a browser. I think that's how Firefox got so popular in the first place. At the time it was "browsing done right".

And syncing all your data between devices sounds creepy. You might as well just send all your private info to Google and install cameras in your house and stream that over some Google service. That would fit Google's business model.

However, it's all of you guys choice, I'm just warning you. Google is a very creepy and very bad company and should best be avoided. I remember back in the day we thought Microsoft was bad (which it was), but now we also have Google and Apple and Facebook and the like. Sadly I feel they are worse than Microsoft.

Last edited by zeebra; 09-15-2019 at 05:20 PM.
 
Old 09-15-2019, 05:40 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
[snip] I kinda wish that Konqueror would have some kind of revival. The foundation is great, it's just not good at browsing the web anymore, many pages simply do not work or do not work as intended.
Konqueror had so much potential imo.. no idea why they abandon it / let it bit rot.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 12:02 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Alright, stop right there. Firefox was the innovator among web browser quite from the getgo. Internet Explorer just looked old fashion and lacked basic functions one would want from a browser. I think that's how Firefox got so popular in the first place. At the time it was "browsing done right".
I was there when Mozilla was tearing things up. I loved Firebird and then Firefox. It gave us so much more control and allowed add-ons! I switched so many people to Firefox over the many years. But as with many companies, when you're sitting at the top, you start to stagnate... just as IE did. The difference is there was Chrome to pick up the slack this time and produced a better browser. And after Firefox had already broken the barrier for people to download a browser that wasn't part of the OS, people were much more likely to switch when they heard of something faster. I was continually impressed by Chrome's speed over the year or two I was considering switching. And Firefox continually lagged when Chrome decided to bring multi-processes, which took them YEARS to bring to Firefox. If you can't see that Firefox was the leader then fell behind, then you're just blind.

And not to mention their UI on Android is still atrocious, only giving me maybe 50% of the screen width to see a url. And why is there so much space in between all the buttons? I wanted to like Firefox on Android because then I could finally get away from my system-wide adblocker and just use the ublock-origin add-on, but the browser is still horrible to use (at least they finally fixed the horrible scrolling).

I have nothing against Firefox and Mozilla other than there is a better product out there for me right now. My usage isn't the same for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
And syncing all your data between devices sounds creepy.
You can sync all your data with Firefox too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
You might as well just send all your private info to Google and install cameras in your house and stream that over some Google service. That would fit Google's business model.

However, it's all of you guys choice, I'm just warning you. Google is a very creepy and very bad company and should best be avoided. I remember back in the day we thought Microsoft was bad (which it was), but now we also have Google and Apple and Facebook and the like. Sadly I feel they are worse than Microsoft.
You know what? You might be right. Maybe Google is accessing all this data I'm syncing between devices to learn even more about me which they will eventually use for more nefarious reasons than providing me ads which I'm more likely to click (even though they're always blocked). I'm using Chrome, Android, Gmail, Google Search, Google Photos, Pixel, YouTube, Google Music, Google Keep, occasionally Google Drive, and probably other products from Google. The fact is they work how I want them. I'm not willing to take a cut in performance/functionality for "ideals". It's why I hate running Windows, don't like iOS, don't like OSX, and others.

Not all of us that use Linux and Slackware are here for ideological reasons. Some of us are here strictly for the functionality. The fact is, Slackware functions as I want it to. Ubuntu, Arch, Windows, etc, don't. The closest ideology that I'm tied to with Slackware is Pat, because Pat seems to know what he's doing and the resulting products keep me happy. Google products also function as I want them to. If you run Android without Google, it kinda sucks. For some, running without Google may be worth it, but it isn't worth it for me. With the way I want to use a browser, using Firefox kinda sucks (especially with the crap I've been hearing recently about them wanting to force people to new profiles). If your experience with Firefox is amazing, I'm not here to stomp on your parade, but if your Firefox experience is less than stellar, but you're willing to stick it out for your ideals, then by all means... live with Firefox, but I don't need to you tell me how to live my life.
 
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Old 09-16-2019, 02:42 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
using Firefox kinda sucks (especially with the crap I've been hearing recently about them wanting to force people to new profiles). If your experience with Firefox is amazing, I'm not here to stomp on your parade, but if your Firefox experience is less than stellar, but you're willing to stick it out for your ideals, then by all means... live with Firefox, but I don't need to you tell me how to live my life.
Nothing is perfect. The profile thing was shocking. Firefox is fast enough. I don't just stick with it for ideals, but for function and privacy. It's a good browser, but a bit of a shame it still utilize python2.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 05:06 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Nothing is perfect. The profile thing was shocking. Firefox is fast enough. I don't just stick with it for ideals, but for function and privacy. It's a good browser, but a bit of a shame it still utilize python2.
There have been drastic improvements over the last updates that has pushed it closer to Chrome. But for me, it is still not where it needs to be to replace Chrome for my usage.

And it is still amazing to me that it relies on an ancient autoconf (here's a bug report from 18 YEARS AGO about not working on a newer autoconf) and they have yet to upgrade to python3, which they've known python2 was going to be deprecated in 2020 for years (at least back to 2014). How have they not realized they need to upgrade portions of the project to prevent using EOL'd versions? Oh, that's right, they just don't care. They only care about what they care about, which seems to be contrary to how many users desire their browser experience to be. That can be backed up with just about any browser metric available online. Sure, most Android browsers default to Chrome, but there's a reason those users haven't sought out Firefox on their mobile device.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 08:06 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
There have been drastic improvements over the last updates that has pushed it closer to Chrome. But for me, it is still not where it needs to be to replace Chrome for my usage.

And it is still amazing to me that it relies on an ancient autoconf (here's a bug report from 18 YEARS AGO about not working on a newer autoconf) and they have yet to upgrade to python3, which they've known python2 was going to be deprecated in 2020 for years (at least back to 2014). How have they not realized they need to upgrade portions of the project to prevent using EOL'd versions? Oh, that's right, they just don't care. They only care about what they care about, which seems to be contrary to how many users desire their browser experience to be. That can be backed up with just about any browser metric available online. Sure, most Android browsers default to Chrome, but there's a reason those users haven't sought out Firefox on their mobile device.
Such a big project should obviously not be on python2 anymore when Python has been yelling at developers to move to python3 for years.
 
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