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Old 10-09-2015, 11:04 AM   #181
ReaperX7
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I say roll it into SBo and let people take responsibility into their own hands. At least let we'd have a package and enough stuff to let those in need of it, use it.

I would only recommend it for stable systems though as -Current would be far too volatile.
 
Old 10-09-2015, 01:50 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
I say roll it into SBo
SBo tries really hard not to replace or clash with any Slackware packages, for very good reasons that are on public display every time someone has messed their system up through poor working practices and thinks something in SBo is broken.

If only one -- just one -- of the people who want PAM would step up and maintain a repo with source Slackbuilds on Github and binary packages somewhere compatible with slackpkg+, that would be more constructive than discussing here the best strategy for maneuvering that work onto Mr Volkerding. Just start with ivandi's stuff when 14.2 comes out, and interact with the community until everyone is happy. Problem solved, until 15.0 comes out, or until another security scare (like the recent openSSH thing), whichever happens first ;-)

Folks, please don't witter how much hard work that would be. Don't fanny around. Use grown up tools like git and github, slackrepo or virtual machines for clean building, and slackpkg+. This kind of project is exactly what those tools were created for.
 
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:30 PM   #183
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I'd say start fresh with 14.2 and slowly replace stuff, but above all else a complete list of packages that would be in need of rebuild and modifications would be even better, but yes, it should only be done towards a stable release.
 
Old 10-09-2015, 11:04 PM   #184
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The lack of pam is one of my favorite things in Slackware, it just over complicates the system like everything redhat has their hands into. If pam exists in slackware it should be an entirely optional third party package. Maybe you should add it to your slackworks repo along with all the packages that would need to be rebuilt.
 
Old 10-10-2015, 03:06 AM   #185
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I could pending time, but to get started I would need, at minimum, a full list of packages that have PAM as a dependency. I have OpenPAM in /extras but that's just for testing only and special interest, nothing actually concrete.
 
Old 10-10-2015, 06:48 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemfire View Post
While I agree there probably isn't a lot anyone can add on a technical level I don't think its bad to discuss the inclusion of PAM from time to time. Provided that it does not get personal, everyone understands the development team does not owe them a response, let alone a PAM enabled system and it all stays friendly.
Somehow this has become routine.
 
Old 10-10-2015, 07:50 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
If pam exists in slackware it should be an entirely optional third party package
If PAM gets added to Slackware it will totally not be optional, because it will require the reconfiguration and recompilation of a sizeable amount of packages to give them PAM support.
 
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:45 AM   #188
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Well, after reading through the discussions i thought I would shares my opinion as well.

I use Slackware my main desktop both at home and at work (where i also maintain a small server for the use a small group).

I do not use PAM, however it is not because i do not need it or do not want . it is because it is not convenient to maintain a separate set of packages on my own and potentiality recompile them each time there is an update.

Also me using slackware is a bit sneaky. I would much prefere to be a able to log in to my desktop using centralized authentication against AD. Also single sign on and kerberos would be convenient at work.
 
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:53 AM   #189
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If PAM gets added to Slackware it will totally not be optional, because it will require the reconfiguration and recompilation of a sizeable amount of packages to give them PAM support.
I understand that, but I still don't see why this can't be all hosted on a third party repo? Sure it would be a lot of work for whoever maintained it, but seems preferable to me than if someone was forced to maintain a repo for getting rid of pam.
 
Old 10-10-2015, 11:22 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by orbea View Post
I understand that, but I still don't see why this can't be all hosted on a third party repo?
who said it can't? it actually already is and there are three different ones:
- one dedicated to PAM only, maintained by Slackware core team member Vincent Batts http://www.slackware.com/~vbatts/pam/
- one with PAM, kerberos, mate desktop and other third party stuff all together, maintained by ivandi http://www.bisdesign.ca/ivandi/slackware/SlackMATE/
- one with PAM, kerberos, systemd and gnome, maintained by bartgymnast https://github.com/Dlackware
the point, IMHO, is that people still push to have it integrated in Slackware without even have tried the above!!!
 
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Old 10-10-2015, 12:24 PM   #191
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I think Vincent's is the more sane, targeting the core system leaving SBo alone as managed by the user first and foremost, plus he uses a tagging system that can be switched on and off with the blacklist feature in slackpkg/pkgtools.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 10-10-2015 at 12:25 PM.
 
Old 10-11-2015, 07:56 PM   #192
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OK, so PAM is not included in Slackware. Apparently I need for Samba 'Member Servers' to authenticate with the Samba4 AD/DC (and Samba4 *is* include in Slackware). Can it be built from sources (http://www.linux-pam.org/library/) and have it work?
 
Old 10-11-2015, 08:30 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by ponce View Post
the point, IMHO, is that people still push to have it integrated in Slackware without even have tried the above!!!
I'm sorry but PAM simply is the type of package that goes with lots of other stuff.. And I, for one, would need to be an idiot to use it on a real public server or in a system that deals with network authentications and not care from where the security updates came from or try to remember from what repository a package is needed from so that it's build with PAM.. etc, etc... Not to mention that packages included in the distribution get more testing and quicker security updates than those in some random repo..

Luckily, I afford not to care about PAM having other stuff on my mind (like getting a job ) ).. But if I would, spending so much time alone in "trying" something that should already be core functionality just so I can run some version of Slackware that isn't even Slackware after those changes.. Well, that would be a very big no..

I'm sorry but PAM would change almost nothing for the users that don't actually need it... Hell, most of them won't even know it's there.. Yet it means so much for those who do and I would say for the distribution itself.. It's one thing to be stable and clean, it's completely a different thing to be.. well.. debian (no offence to anyone -- I was just insinuating that Debian-stable is usually old, outdated and almost useless in practice)...
 
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:07 AM   #194
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I had not seen vbatts' packages before, thanks Ponce. It looks like he has done some really nice work! Still I must sorta echo Smokey_justme feelings on the matter. Even vbatts has some TODOs and unknowns in his readme. Unless PAM is included in Slackware 'proper' I can't really see using it except for possibly a very very stripped down highly purpose built system with few packages on it. There is way to much potential for a non-pam package to allow a partial bypass or policy violation because it goes after nss and shadow directly.

For some of the very reasons cited in the past for not wanting to include PAM, I'd be very concerned about going any way other than all in, or the all out we have today. Its also true that it would be trivial to ship a default PAM setup that would have near zero impact on the usual stand alone Slackware install. Its back to that tipping point question, when do the risks and headaches of adding it become less than pains of trying to do without. I even would argue that Pat has been right about PAM historically speaking. Until pretty recently we have been better off without it; its just in 2015 the stand alone server is a declining species. The alternatives like NIS that can be implemented without PAM are obsolete and come with their own serious security issues.
 
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:29 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponce View Post
who said it can't? it actually already is and there are three different ones:
- one dedicated to PAM only, maintained by Slackware core team member Vincent Batts http://www.slackware.com/~vbatts/pam/
- one with PAM, kerberos, mate desktop and other third party stuff all together, maintained by ivandi http://www.bisdesign.ca/ivandi/slackware/SlackMATE/
- one with PAM, kerberos, systemd and gnome, maintained by bartgymnast https://github.com/Dlackware
the point, IMHO, is that people still push to have it integrated in Slackware without even have tried the above!!!

Well, I hate to be pedantic. But only the second project in your list provides "out of the box" directory integration. And it can definitely be used as a base for implementing this functionality in Slackware. So far that's the main reason threads like this have been revived.

BUT only in a fantasy world called Slackware a complete and utter idiot will deploy my project "as is" in production environment and will be waiting for me to finish my glass of wine and eventually look at some important security updates.


Cheers
 
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