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-   -   slackware 15 and pam (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/slackware-15-and-pam-4175483168/)

genss 10-19-2015 08:58 PM

pulseaudio was made popular by ubuntu
it was put in to solve one thing and one thing only, plugging in an hdmi cable after you started playing a movie and having it work without editing an .asoundrc and restarting the video player
everything else about it is bad design, very very bad design
even its creator stated that he doesn't know shit about digital audio and it clearly shows

as shown by this topic all the requests for PAM mostly come from the desire to solve one thing, AD
(and one login thing, that is not really a problem IMO)

redhat is not the same as fedora, that much should be clear
the devs from one another are not the same and the redhat devs actually know how computers work
most of the crap that is being pushed comes from fedora, or more precisely gnome
(see "free"desktop.org lately)
including systemd
systemd only got popular in general because of "faster booting", that was never even benchmarked properly
almost all the other "features" it brings are useless

so don't blame redhat, blame fedora
even though redhat is also overrated and a company that only does things for money, at least they also do good things in the process

/rant
that's what you get for going off topic, a stupid rant

ReaperX7 10-19-2015 11:02 PM

I actually don't blame Fedora, and really nobody can blame them, Canonical Inc., Red Hat Inc., or any other company, even Microsoft and Apple.

I blame a bunch of trend wanting hipsters who don't know the first thing about UNIX development, design, structuring, and purposing only looking to be cool, trendy, and make GNU/Linux exciting to make a quick buck or get a quick thrill and then move on to the next thing and leave things a disastrous mess all in an effort to not use Windows because they feel it's not cool enough.

Things don't have to be perfect, like udev for example, but they need to work, and work well, but only for that one particular purpose. Like fish in a school, every fish knows it's role and does it's purpose to the school, but separate from the school, the fish is still a fish and can be independent. People want fish, not a grumpy kraken grabbing everything with it's tentacles.

kikinovak 10-20-2015 01:48 AM

Folks, please. This topic is about PAM and the possibilities it offers. Please don't turn this into a rant about Syslinux, Pulseaudio, Systemd, Red Hat or Ubuntu.

ReaperX7 10-20-2015 02:38 AM

I think if Slackware 15.0 is to be considered at this point, a full roadmap to consider things like Wayland support, KDE/Plasma 5, and any other possible updates or considerations to discuss need to include things much more than PAM. Really, there are more important things that could be discussed. We have no idea what new convoluted hipster fadware what could come between now and then to work around as best as possible.

Didier Spaier 10-20-2015 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 (Post 5437282)
I think if Slackware 15.0 is to be considered at this point, a full roadmap to consider things like Wayland support, KDE/Plasma 5, and any other possible updates or considerations to discuss need to include things much more than PAM. Really, there are more important things that could be discussed. We have no idea what new convoluted hipster fadware what could come between now and then to work around as best as possible.

To be discussed elsewhere then. What Nicolas reminded us (me included) is the sane rule: in a any given thread, only discuss about the topic set by its first post, so that it be properly addressed. If one want to discuss another topic, just open a new thread.

kikinovak 10-20-2015 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 (Post 5437282)
I think if Slackware 15.0 is to be considered at this point, a full roadmap to consider things like Wayland support, KDE/Plasma 5, and any other possible updates or considerations to discuss need to include things much more than PAM. Really, there are more important things that could be discussed.

Then please let us discuss our less important stuff here and open a different thread for your more important stuff.

pcninja 10-20-2015 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 (Post 5437282)
I think if Slackware 15.0 is to be considered at this point, a full roadmap to consider things like Wayland support, KDE/Plasma 5, and any other possible updates or considerations to discuss need to include things much more than PAM. Really, there are more important things that could be discussed. We have no idea what new convoluted hipster fadware what could come between now and then to work around as best as possible.

I just have to laugh at Wayland.

kikinovak 10-20-2015 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcninja (Post 5437351)
I just have to laugh at Wayland.

Then please create a separate thread "Why I think Wayland is funny" and discuss this technology's respective merits and entertainment potential with fellow forum member ReaperX7.

adeodatus 10-20-2015 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genss (Post 5437170)
pulseaudio was made popular by ubuntu
it was put in to solve one thing and one thing only, plugging in an hdmi cable after you started playing a movie and having it work without editing an .asoundrc and restarting the video player
everything else about it is bad design, very very bad design
even its creator stated that he doesn't know shit about digital audio and it clearly shows

To be fair pulseaudio has gotten a lot better over the past two years, i have to use it that or edit my asoundrc, every ten minutes. I think the problems with Pottering, and a lot of developers these days. is what i call the "C++/Java ate my brain", effect, The OOP Model advanced by the C++, and Java people, thus taught in most CS programs over the past ~15 years tends to encourages overcomplicated and bloated design. Just look at writing a file in java for the stereotypical example. Newer devs don't know any other design philosophy, or at least newer devs who weren't taught C by an 73 year old who complained constantly about the university administration axing the PDP-11, so they design crap by default. We just happen to be unlucky in recent years that the greybeards are dying out, or are loosing influence.

Now that's a rant for you

cwizardone 10-20-2015 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genss (Post 5437170)
pulseaudio.... was put in to solve one thing and one thing only, plugging in an hdmi cable after you started playing a movie and having it work without editing an .asoundrc and restarting the video player....

As it should be!
:)

ivandi 10-20-2015 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genss (Post 5437170)

as shown by this topic all the requests for PAM mostly come from the desire to solve one thing, AD
(and one login thing, that is not really a problem IMO)

If a magic spell that makes AD login work on stock Slackware, has been revealed to you by BOB, please let us know.

So far all I can do is to apply the methods from the real world. Unfortunately in the fantasy world of Slackware these methods resemble jumping through fire hoops.


Cheers

genss 10-20-2015 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwizardone (Post 5437473)
As it should be!
:)

yes of course it should be that way
that's a basic thing an OS should do

problem comes from the solution to the problem being really shitty

ReaperX7 10-21-2015 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivandi (Post 5437781)
If a magic spell that makes AD login work on stock Slackware, has been revealed to you by BOB, please let us know.

So far all I can do is to apply the methods from the real world. Unfortunately in the fantasy world of Slackware these methods resemble jumping through fire hoops.


Cheers

The same could be said of any and all software.

Slax-Dude 01-29-2016 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkerdi (Post 5434625)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivandi (Post 5433914)
1) compile MIT Kerberos
2) compile Linux-PAM

It's step one that I'm opposed to more than step two. If PAM without Kerberos doesn't add the Samba functionality that people want, I'd say PAM still isn't worth it for most users. PAM is a fairly simple technology. Kerberos, on the other hand, is a complicated mess that I'd rather not see dig its tendrils into everything.

So... it looks like it is Kerberos, not PAM, that PV opposes strongly.

My question: is PAM without Kerberos enough to support the flat file authentication (ie. passwd/shadow/group) we have now?

If so, then adding PAM on these terms (no kerberos + default config to flat file auth) would still be of tremendous usefulness.
In this scenario, a framework would be in place that would allow any user to expand it to his/her needs (that is in tune with Slackware's philosophy, is it not?).
ie. compile Kerberos + recompile PAM = samba that integrates with AD
ie. all slackbuilds from SBo that can get PAM support would get it.

Didier Spaier 01-29-2016 06:42 AM

Could a moderator kindly close this thread?


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