LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 05-29-2010, 11:32 AM   #91
fancylad
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Distribution: slackware
Posts: 175

Rep: Reputation: 19

@allend: I realize that GRUB exists in /extra but i really believe that it should be an option during the install process. When you say:
Quote:
Slackware does not adopt "the new standard pretty soon", but rather the standard that is tried and proven
I find that pretty funny. GRUB has been the standard for years now. Slackware is the only distro I know of that not only uses LILO as it's default bootloader but doesn't offer the option of using GRUB during the install. The future of disk partitioning and GPT aside, LILO is just too damn inflexible. GRUB shell has saved my bacon both at work and at home countless times. I just have never understood my Slackware has to be so resistant to using a better boot loader. I understand the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy but when it comes to LILO it does work but it is seriously lacking in features that are extremely useful. Having to boot off of a live CD and reinstall LILO just because your boot loader configuration is messed up is inexcusable. There is a reason why every other distro in the world uses GRUB and not LILO as it's default bootloader. What surprises me is that there is not more Slackware users that agree with me on this one. Why is it that Slackware users get so defensive when anybody criticizes their distro? In their eyes Patrick V can do no wrong. On this one I think he is wrong and has been for sometime. Don't get me wrong, Slackware is my favorite distro but this has always bugged me.

Last edited by fancylad; 05-29-2010 at 11:34 AM.
 
Click here to see the post LQ members have rated as the most helpful post in this thread.
Old 05-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #92
allend
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Melbourne
Distribution: Slackware-current
Posts: 5,448

Rep: Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034Reputation: 2034
@fancylad - Feel free to get busy modifying the installer to include the option and submit your improvement to Patrick V. who has often stated his commitment to choice in FOSS.
Perhaps the lack of support from other Slackware users arises from the thought that it is inexcusable to mess up your boot loader, so that booting from the install CD is the price you pay?
 
Old 05-29-2010, 12:05 PM   #93
disturbed1
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,133
Blog Entries: 6

Rep: Reputation: 223Reputation: 223Reputation: 223
Grub could be in a future release.
http://slackware.osuosl.org/slackwar...ADME_FIRST.TXT
Quote:
LILO tries to detect the amount of space that will
be required to decompress the kernel, but some adjustment to the code is
going to be needed, or perhaps we will have to investigate alternatives for
the bootloader.
In any case, that's something for Slackware 13.1 or 14.0, or
whatever happens down the line.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 12:29 PM   #94
slakmagik
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 4,113

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
Slackware is the only distro I know of that not only uses LILO as it's default bootloader but doesn't offer the option of using GRUB during the install.
Slackware is also about the only distro whose package manager doesn't do dependencies. That argument won't work on that characteristic, or this, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
I understand the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy but when it comes to LILO it does work but it is seriously lacking in features that are extremely useful.
I prefer to have features appear after I boot into the system. I want the loader to just Just Work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
Having to boot off of a live CD and reinstall LILO just because your boot loader configuration is messed up is inexcusable.
Messing up your loader config is inexcusable. LILO is just encouraging you to do it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
What surprises me is that there is not more Slackware users that agree with me on this one. Why is it that Slackware users get so defensive when anybody criticizes their distro? In their eyes Patrick V can do no wrong. On this one I think he is wrong and has been for sometime. Don't get me wrong, Slackware is my favorite distro but this has always bugged me.
Probably the reason you don't get more support is that probably most of us use LILO without any problems. On your last point, it may be that some Slackers feel Pat can do no wrong and get defensive at criticism but, to speak for myself, it's not defensiveness at the criticism - it's defensiveness for Slackware. You can criticize Slack all you want where it could be made more transparent, simple, and work even more reliably, and generally be as Slack as possible. Slack is becoming more and more unique as more and more distros homogenize on the Wrong Principles. Some of us cherish real issues like our dependency-free system and also our symbols (which still reflect real issues like simplicity and durability) like LILO which make Slack Slack. If people want a dep pm or grub, almost every other distro is out there for them to use and all kinds of addons and /extras even for/in Slack. For people who want pkgtools and LILO, there's just about only Slack. If you don't want Slack as is, but want some Slack, you're supposed to be able to customize it to your tastes. But don't take other peoples' Slack or at least don't expect a lot of enthusiasm from them when you do.

But I respect your point-of-view and, as others have said, and I just did, install grub from /extra and you're set.

Oh, and to be on topic: 13.1 is working great here. Shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
 
Old 05-29-2010, 12:38 PM   #95
zordrak
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2008
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 595

Rep: Reputation: 115Reputation: 115
Slackware 13.1 Released :: An Unfortunate Choice of Kernel

Finally got around to put into writing some musings on the stability of 13.1 and its kernel. In general I write with the tone of a harsh critic, so I warn you I by no means intend to sound harsh but it might come across that way. I'm just a little saddened by the troubles I and others have had with the stability of 13.1.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 12:49 PM   #96
icecubeflower
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Distribution: Slackware 13.1
Posts: 313

Rep: Reputation: 34
I still have absolutely no idea what a boot loader is. Just hit enter. That's my motto during install. Install LILO to my master boot record? Sure, setup. Whatever you say. It's not like I know what a master boot record is anyway.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 12:55 PM   #97
slakmagik
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 4,113

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Now that's Slackware criticism. I don't use DRBD/LVM and haven't experienced any problems but data-loss is inexcusable. If that is indeed an issue, hopefully it can be addressed in some way even on 13.1.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 01:00 PM   #98
Richard Cranium
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Carrollton, Texas
Distribution: Slackware64 14.2
Posts: 3,719

Rep: Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067Reputation: 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by slakmagik View Post
Now that's Slackware criticism. I don't use DRBD/LVM and haven't experienced any problems but data-loss is inexcusable. If that is indeed an issue, hopefully it can be addressed in some way even on 13.1.
One of the 13.0 patches was for a new kernel; I don't see why that cannot be the case here.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 01:07 PM   #99
Lufbery
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Distribution: Slackware 64 14.0
Posts: 1,163
Blog Entries: 29

Rep: Reputation: 131Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
One of the 13.0 patches was for a new kernel; I don't see why that cannot be the case here.
True enough.

I wonder if people are sending these concerns to Pat directly. I hope so.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 05:40 PM   #100
tpreitzel
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2007
Posts: 253

Rep: Reputation: 28
I basically have one observation. Slackware 13.1 is apparently buggier than Slackware 13.0. Slackware 13.0 was as close to excellence as any Slackware distribution released since I've started using Slackware 3.4.
Slackware 13.1 was released TOO early. After code freeze, at LEAST one month should transpire before releasing any distribution so most bugs can be found and removed. Slackware 13.0 apparently went through a longer testing phase after the code freeze and the results spoke for themselves ... excellence except for gcc 4.3.3. Personally, I like Slackware's use of newer versions of software as each upgrade's viability lasts longer, i.e. Slackware 13.0 is still very usable. However, the use of more current software demands a longer testing phase to identify and remove bugs; again, at LEAST one month AFTER freezing updates.



For example, I use multiple video cameras and the pwc driver has been crashing the video subsystem at the (apparently) kernel level. I'll have to continue to research this issue. I just upgraded my kernel to 2.6.34 and the problem remains. Slackware 13.0 runs the same hardware perfectly.

With the aforementioned criticism of too short a testing phase, Slackware remains my favorite distribution of Linux. Overall, my limited experience with Slackware 13.1 has been quite nice so far. Again, thanks to everyone working on Slackware.

Last edited by tpreitzel; 05-29-2010 at 05:42 PM.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 05:56 PM   #101
damgar
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: dallas, tx
Distribution: Slackware - current multilib/gsb Arch
Posts: 1,949
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 201Reputation: 201Reputation: 201
From a general desktop/home server standpoint I would say the exact opposite. Slackware 13 needed patching immediately, but I've had zero issues with 13.1. I also think that if KDE is going to be part of slackware it was ABSOLUTELY right to include 4.4.3 with 13.1. What came before it was super unstable. The testing branches of kde from Eric were stable from the get go and only got better. I can actually USE konqueror now to browse directories with 1000's of files. Previously it would just crash after hanging.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 06:09 PM   #102
tpreitzel
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2007
Posts: 253

Rep: Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
From a general desktop/home server standpoint I would say the exact opposite. Slackware 13 needed patching immediately, but I've had zero issues with 13.1. I also think that if KDE is going to be part of slackware it was ABSOLUTELY right to include 4.4.3 with 13.1. What came before it was super unstable. The testing branches of kde from Eric were stable from the get go and only got better. I can actually USE konqueror now to browse directories with 1000's of files. Previously it would just crash after hanging.
Each user will likely have somewhat different experiences. Personally, I have no use for KDE. Thankfully, Slackware's appeal doesn't rest solely on KDE. Even I had to upgrade the stock kernel of 13.0 because some of the drivers for my hardware were crashing. However, kernel updates solved the problem. So far, the same pattern isn't true with 13.1...

Regardless, the need for a longer testing period after freezing updates remains IMO. If I were releasing software, I'd use the -rc method approximately every week for one month. For example, -rc1 would mark the beginning of the official release of the software. (-rc1, -rc2, -rc3, -rc4, final) Only patches would be accepted for one month. -rc2 would follow the next week with each -rc following the previous -rc by one week. Granted, many users would simply wait until the official release and not help in debugging the -rc. I don't see the latter situation as much of a problem. Enough people would have difficulty waiting for a month for the final release to participate in the debugging the -rc.

Last edited by tpreitzel; 05-29-2010 at 07:19 PM.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 06:29 PM   #103
damgar
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: dallas, tx
Distribution: Slackware - current multilib/gsb Arch
Posts: 1,949
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 201Reputation: 201Reputation: 201
To each his own. I keep a base kernel-config file for my machines and tend to upgrade kernels at about rc3 of each kernel cycle so I really wouldn't notice too much of what's going on in the official kernel after installation anyway.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 08:18 PM   #104
rkelsen
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Distribution: slackware
Posts: 2,610

Rep: Reputation: 860Reputation: 860Reputation: 860Reputation: 860Reputation: 860Reputation: 860Reputation: 860
Unhappy

Hey guys,

Long time slacker here. I started with 7.0 way back in 1999, and used every version through to 12.0, which I've been using for approximately 3 years now. In the past 3 years, we've had our first child, sold a house, built a house, moved twice and I changed jobs... so to say I've been too busy to find the time for further upgrades would be an understatement. Slackware 12.0 has been rock solid for me, so I never really had reason to upgrade, but now it's getting a bit long in the tooth... and I have a little more time on my hands...

So, I downloaded 13.1 (the 32 bit version), put it onto DVD and installed it onto a spare partition. I prefer to do this instead of upgrading, because you get a clean installation and have no chance of old configs ruining things.

My findings were as follows:

The first problem I encountered was no response from the keyboard at the password prompt. I've no idea what caused it, but switching from the "huge" kernel to the "generic" kernel fixed it.

The second problem was that the module for my it87 sensor chip refused to load. It said something about the resource being busy. A bit of Googling told me that this was a known issue, and was in fact the preferred behaviour since everyone should be using acpi drivers anyway. I had a cursory glance, and couldn't find one for my Gigabyte mobo, so I used the "hack" method of passing the following option to the kernel at bootup: "acpi_enforce_resources=lax". This enabled the it87 module to be loaded and work as previously.

My other problems were encountered within X, and are probably not entirely unrelated to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
I also think that if KDE is going to be part of slackware it was ABSOLUTELY right to include 4.4.3 with 13.1. What came before it was super unstable.
KDE4 doesn't remember any of my settings. Not a one. I like to have a slightly larger panel, date on the clock, etc, etc... And KDE restores everything to its default settings every time I logout and then login again. Its as if I'm logging in for the first time, everytime.

A minor thing I've noticed is that there are lots of random 'artifacts' left on my screen from prior actions. There are a few graphical glitches, e.g: the panel decorations don't load properly upon startup, but correct themselves when I click on the 'cashew' to bring up the panel settings configurator. Not a big deal, but not very professional, IMO.

The final thing may be related to the NVidia driver or KDE4, I'm not 100% sure. When I log out, X crashes. It won't even let me switch to another terminal. I'll have to try an alternate DE to try and figure out what's going on.

What with all of these 'minor' problems, I feel like I've chosen to test drive an Edsel... And I've not yet had it for 24 hours, so there may well be other things which crop up.

For the time being, 12.0 will remain my 'daily use' desktop... at least until I can get 13.1 to the same level of functionality.

Will the 'unsupported' KDE 3.5 packages from Slackware.com work with 13.1?

Cheers,


Rob

Last edited by rkelsen; 05-29-2010 at 08:26 PM.
 
Old 05-29-2010, 09:31 PM   #105
Ilgar
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Distribution: Slackware64 14.2, Slackwarearm-current
Posts: 1,008

Rep: Reputation: 130Reputation: 130
I think there was a notice somewhere in the CHANGES_AND_HINTS file about KDE settings, or at least it got mentioned in the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
The final thing may be related to the NVidia driver or KDE4, I'm not 100% sure. When I log out, X crashes. It won't even let me switch to another terminal. I'll have to try an alternate DE to try and figure out what's going on.
I had a similar case on one computer with the nvidia driver (173 series), screen going blank after logout (when using kdm), blocking the terminals, too. I was able to work around it by setting TerminateServer=true in /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slackware - First impressions Gerard Lally Slackware 7 09-23-2009 03:52 AM
[SOLVED] My first Slackware 13 RC1 impressions - Need some Help Iwantslack Slackware 9 08-29-2009 12:08 PM
first impressions of slackware-10 sucky ! please help ! qwijibow Slackware 16 06-29-2004 01:13 AM
Early impressions of Slackware 8.1? masinick Slackware 16 07-16-2002 09:56 AM
Slackware: First impressions. magis Linux - General 4 02-20-2002 08:28 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:27 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration