Should I not have upgraded to 4.4.88?

Lysander666 · 01-08-2018, 04:35 PM

Apologies for the somewhat newbie question, but that's where I still am. I ran slackpkg upgrade-all yesterday and one of the things I upgraded was the kernel.

I'm now concerned that I shouldn't have upgraded to 4.4.88 since I see now that blacklist recommends to uncomment those lines. Should I have left it as is?

OldHolborn · 01-08-2018, 04:44 PM

No, the keyword in that warning is, I think, "automated".

You are prompted to run Lilo after the update, if you fail to do that step your system may fail to boot - as long as you do that part you should be ok

And why isn't Lilo automated? Possibly because it may interfere with other any other OS installed or possibly that Lilo isn't even used.

It's just a *be aware of what you are doing* message

You are fine and you should be updating - kernels are only updated to stable releases of Slackware when there is a serious issue that needs fixed - there will do doubt be another new kernel soon in light of the recent news.

Lysander666 · 01-08-2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldHolborn

You are prompted to run Lilo after the update, if you fail to do that step your system may fail to boot - as long as you do that part you should be ok

Thank you very much. I did indeed run Lilo, because it said something like "you are strongly recommended to run Lilo", as you say.

When Slack advises me to do something, I do it. And I generally stick with defaults unless I know otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldHolborn

You are fine and you should be updating - kernels are only updated to stable releases of Slackware when there is a serious issue that needs fixed - there will do doubt be another new kernel soon in light of the recent news.

Ironically this netbook uses an Atom N270 - a CPU which, I think, is one of the few to be unaffected by Meltdown or Spectre. I will still update the kernel when a new one comes out though.

Ztcoracat · 01-08-2018, 05:07 PM

Kernel 4.4.88 has been running stable for me w/o any issues.

You did the right thing by upgrading the kernel-

hitest · 01-08-2018, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztcoracat

Kernel 4.4.88 has been running stable for me w/o any issues.

Code:

bash-4.3$ uname -a
Linux thor 4.4.88 #2 SMP Thu Sep 14 14:21:06 CDT 2017 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

Running well here too.

ChuangTzu · 01-08-2018, 06:54 PM

working fine here as well.

lysander, you will notice there are nowhere near the updates as other distros, since many of those updates are for distro specific hacks/tweaks and other silliness.

enorbet · 01-08-2018, 07:36 PM

Hello Lysander666 and welcome to the Slack Pack. I'm responding in this way because I recently installed Debian Stretch to try it out and because Discord is a relatively easy install on it and it is somewhat important to me. I've read that Discord can be installed on Slackware but frankly I choose to not install it's many requirements.

I was pleased when I read that Debian still supports LILO but setting it up the way I want as a chainloaded OpSys was no walk in the park. I was very pleased that Debian still has an active root account as any serious distro, IMHO, must. However there are major differences between Debian and Slackware and I am trying to learn to do things the Debian Way on Debian but more and more AI run into snags with Debian automation. It makes me appreciate Slackware's vanilla, manual methodology more with each passing hour I spend on Debian... but I will continue, for a time anyway, to explore how to best utilize it's automation.

Similarly I'd like to recommend that at least for a time you forego the convenience of such activities as "slackpkg upgrade-all" and try to learn to do it Old School, manually, where you are in total control. You will learn a great deal and I suspect you will come to see exactly what has made Slackware so low maintenance, rock solid stable, and nimble. Convenience creates weakness. Maybe try to be stronger and actually come to own your own PC. This is merely a suggestion and not any manner of flame, so just do with it as you wish, but there are diamonds in that mine.

Lysander666 · 01-09-2018, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

However there are major differences between Debian and Slackware and I am trying to learn to do things the Debian Way on Debian

The Debian Way, as far as I understand, is not only to do with how to install software and maintain the system, but also to have an understand of Debian's ethic, i.e. using totally free software, though it's good that they give you the option not to do so if you require. Slackware does not seem to mind so much, in fact one of the greatest issues as part of my Debian learning curve was understanding how to install ATI drivers. On Slackware, the Mesa's are already bundled, I think. But Debian's lack of proprietary software can be something of a hindrance when getting used to the OS. In fact, getting used to Debian took me a good two weeks after my initial install. For now, I am nearly one week into my first proper Slack install and I have only minor teething issues to work out. But I have done months of prior research on Slack and prior experimental installs. For now I am unsure of whether to move to Slack on my main box since I think having two different distros, that operate differently, is quite useful to learning Linux. And it's also fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

It makes me appreciate Slackware's vanilla, manual methodology more with each passing hour I spend on Debian... but I will continue, for a time anyway, to explore how to best utilize it's automation.

It can be a lot quicker and easier to install software on Debian, yes. To be honest, since I run Slack on a netbook, I mostly use pre-built packages. I do compile the smaller ones though, e.g. any .tar.gz under ~1MB. Inxi, neofetch, acpi, that sort of thing, even Evince took longer than I was comfortable with. Compiling Spotify on my main box, for instance, when I had an experimental Slack install, was pretty quick, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't attempt it on the netbook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

Similarly I'd like to recommend that at least for a time you forego the convenience of such activities as "slackpkg upgrade-all" and try to learn to do it Old School, manually, where you are in total control. You will learn a great deal and I suspect you will come to see exactly what has made Slackware so low maintenance, rock solid stable, and nimble.

I wasn't aware there was a manual way to update/upgrade. I'll look into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

Convenience creates weakness. Maybe try to be stronger and actually come to own your own PC. This is merely a suggestion and not any manner of flame, so just do with it as you wish, but there are diamonds in that mine.

Not taken as a flame at all. I've spent some time on the Debian forums, so I'm used to tough learning! Good advice, thank you.

Lysander666 · 01-09-2018, 05:44 AM

One more thing I am confused about though - the upgrade section of Slackdocs says "never upgrade your working kernel", as written by Eric Hameleers.

https://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sl...:systemupgrade

Quote:

Why is that? Simple - you will be upgrading potentially hundreds of packages and should be prepared for the unlikely event that your computer does not work properly anymore after a system upgrade. One thing you don't want to get hit by is a system which does not boot at all. A new Slackware release may install a kernel that refuses to boot your computer (small chance but nevertheless… be prepared). For that reason, you need to keep your “old” working kernel installed, and keep a section for it in your /etc/lilo.conf file. That way, if the new kernel fails to boot, you can fall-back to the old kernel and start investigating what went wrong.

Basically, these are the same precautions you must take when you are compiling a new kernel yourself.

I suppose this is just precautionary but still, 'never upgrade' seems pretty strong wording! Or does the 'working kernel' here refer to not upgrading beyond 4.4.xx for 14.2?

kjhambrick · 01-09-2018, 06:14 AM

Lysander666 --

I've not reviewed the doc but I beleive Alien Bob is referring to the Slackware `upgradepkg` vs `installpkg` scripts.

As a rule ( note that you'll want to append the version strings to the base package names in BOTH commands )

1. Install these Kernel Packages via installpkg:

Code:

#  installpkg kernel-source  \
              kernel-modules \
              kernel-generic \
              kernel-huge

2. Upgrade these Kernel Packages via upgradepkg:

Code:

#  upgradepkg kernel-headers \
              kernel-firmware

The difference is that installpkg installs a new copy of the Package IN ADDITION TO any existing Package.

OTOH, upgradepkg replaces an existing Package with a new one.

-- kjh

SavoTU · 01-09-2018, 06:17 AM

I can see how this can be confusing, to install Slackware packages you use installpkg and to upgrade them upgradepkg.

To upgrade your kernel use installpkg this will then install the new kernel without touching the old one so if anything goes wrong you still have a working machine.

Lysander666 · 01-09-2018, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjhambrick

As a rule ( note that you'll want to append the version strings to the base package names in BOTH commands )

I see - I think I've seen those in slackpkg upgrade-all

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjhambrick

1. Install these Kernel Packages via installpkg:

Code:

#  installpkg kernel-source  \
              kernel-modules \
              kernel-generic \
              kernel-huge

2. Upgrade these Kernel Packages via upgradepkg:

Code:

#  upgradepkg kernel-headers \
              kernel-firmware

The difference is that installpkg installs a new copy of the Package IN ADDITION TO any existing Package.

OTOH, upgradepkg replaces an existing Package with a new one.

-- kjh

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavoTU

I can see how this can be confusing, to install Slackware packages you use installpkg and to upgrade them upgradepkg.

To upgrade your kernel use installpkg this will then install the new kernel without touching the old one so if anything goes wrong you still have a working machine.

I see. I've been using installpkg up to now.

pkgs.org recommends

#upgradepkg --install-new

should I be doing that instead? I've installed things so far like Spotify, Libreoffice, Leafpad, Inxi, Neofetch, Evince, Qmplay2 and used installpkg for each of those and their dependencies. Maybe it will be OK for these because I don't think versions already existed on the ISO. But in the future maybe I should be using #upgradepkg --install-new instead.

kjhambrick · 01-09-2018, 06:35 AM

One last thing I should add to the recommendation to `installpkg kernel-source kernel-modules kernel-generic kernel-huge` ...

Keep an eye on your /boot/ directory, especially if it is a mounted partition so that you don't fill it up !

In addition you'll find that you'll gather quite a collection of Linux Kernel Source in the /usr/src/ directory.

The installpkg recommendation does require an occasional cleanup, especially if you follow the latest kernels on kernel.org.

-- kjh

Lysander666 · 01-09-2018, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjhambrick

One last thing I should add to the recommendation to `installpkg kernel-source kernel-modules kernel-generic kernel-huge` ...

Keep an eye on your /boot/ directory, especially if it is a mounted partition so that you don't fill it up !

In addition you'll find that you'll gather quite a collection of Linux Kernel Source in the /usr/src/ directory.

Thank you for that. I do indeed have a mounted partition for root!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjhambrick

The installpkg recommendation does require an occasional cleanup, especially if you follow the latest kernels on kernel.org.

-- kjh

Is that done via clean-system? I took a look at it yesterday but it listed what I thought was a lot of compiled packages in /tmp, and I want to keep those for the moment.

kjhambrick · 01-09-2018, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666

<<snip>>

pkgs.org recommends

#upgradepkg --install-new

should I be doing that instead? I've installed things so far like Spotify, Libreoffice, Leafpad, Inxi, Neofetch, Evince, Qmplay2 and used installpkg for each of those and their dependencies. Maybe it will be OK for these because I don't think versions already existed on the ISO. But in the future maybe I should be using #upgradepkg --install-new instead.

Lysander666 --

Maybe so, Probably so, Yes ... `upgradepkg --install-new` is the safe bet when you don't know for certain that a particular package is installed on your system and you do want to make sure it gets installed if it does not exist.

The --install-new Flag will cause upgradepkg upgrade existing packages OR to install new packages that don't exist on your system.

It is perfectly fine to append the --install-new flag to the Kernel Upgrade Command that I wrote earlier:

Code:

#  upgradepkg --install-new kernel-headers \
                            kernel-firmware

HTH

-- kjh