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Old 12-03-2007, 09:25 AM   #16
nx5000
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Quote:
I've just finished a week long experiment running Debian Lenny on my main work station. There's nothing wrong with Debian, I do have one Debian 4.0r1 box at home. But, it isn't Slackware.
I have used Slackware maybe a decade ago (after bsd and RH). Then I went through a lot of other distributions until I stopped on Debian (I have tried suse,fedora,buntu but no thanks). Yes, Debian is not Slackware... but as you are using both, could you tell me quickly what are the technical things you don't like in Debian?
Due to personal constraints, I don't think I have the time to go back to recompiling the world so I will probably not go back to Slackware but I'm just curious.
I guess this is the best sub-forum to ask, in Debian I already know the answers I would get.
 
Old 12-03-2007, 09:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post
I have used Slackware maybe a decade ago (after bsd and RH). Then I went through a lot of other distributions until I stopped on Debian (I have tried suse,fedora,buntu but no thanks). Yes, Debian is not Slackware... but as you are using both, could you tell me quickly what are the technical things you don't like in Debian?
Due to personal constraints, I don't think I have the time to go back to recompiling the world so I will probably not go back to Slackware but I'm just curious.
I guess this is the best sub-forum to ask, in Debian I already know the answers I would get.
Thanks for the reply, nx5000:-) It is good to meet another Debian user here. I do have one Debian Etch box at home that I may be upgrading to Lenny( I haven't decided yet). I also run 9 Etch boxes at work.
Technically there is nothing that I dislike about Debian, it has a robust package-management system and is secure by default. This suits me very well as I am a security/stability junky and love Slack, Debian, and FreeBSD.
I guess the one draw back for me about Debian is that the distro is very slow to adopt newer software(a philosophical choice). I do realize that I can get a lot of the newer stuff in Sid, but I'm not willing to give up stability to get newer, secure software.
For example, on my old Lenny box (that I formatted yesterday) Fire Fox was at version 2.0.0.8 and Thunderbird was at 1.5x. I prefer to run a newer, more secure browser and e-mail client; Slackware recently released FF 2.0.0.11 and offers Thunderbird 2.0.0.9(in security updates).
My intention is not to offend my friends in the Debian forum as Debian is a first rate distro and I continue to avidly use it.
I always come home though to Slackware as my first choice for my favourite *nix. I'm running two fully-patched Slackware 12.0 boxes at home:-)
 
Old 12-03-2007, 10:25 AM   #18
jong357
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Originally Posted by Hangdog42 View Post
So do I now have permission to forward all the spam I get to you? Crackers live for computers like yours. Old, unpatched security holes make for easier pickings.
Nah, I get enough spam as it is. Thanks tho.. I also block all images in thunderbird and gmail so you can if you want I suppose.

I do use stop gap measures to counter my not updating anything. It's not like I'm completely oblivious to sane security practices. Believe it or not, I along with 3 others, manage over 300 computers at the Human Ecology Dept of OSU. Mixed Win/Mac environment. That probably has a bearing on why I choose not to do it at home. I have too many things to do when I get home besides continuing to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangdog
That and $10 will get you a cup of Starbucks.
That went over my head. I only spend 3.95 plus a buck tip when I hit Starbucks, but I'm sure that was clever.

I'm certainly not suggesting anyone run as root all the time or even implying that it would probably be ok just because of my expierence with doing it. This computer is nothing but a development box and it doesn't make alot of sense for me to be constantly using sudo/su all the time. I am a bigger threat to my system than anyone else is by running as root. Statistically speaking, that's fact.
 
Old 12-03-2007, 10:31 AM   #19
nx5000
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Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Thanks for the reply, nx5000:-) It is good to meet another Debian user here.
As a french proverb say:
Only stupid people never change their mind. It's been since several days I wanted to posted this question, too bad I choose you
Quote:
I guess the one draw back for me about Debian is that the distro is very slow to adopt newer software(a philosophical choice).
If there is a big delay between a package in Unstable and a package in Slackware (dunno slacks new terminology) then yes, you can say that Debian is long to package stuffs.
Quote:
I do realize that I can get a lot of the newer stuff in Sid, but I'm not willing to give up stability to get newer, secure software.
For example, on my old Lenny box (that I formatted yesterday) Fire Fox was at version 2.0.0.8 and Thunderbird was at 1.5x. I prefer to run a newer, more secure browser and e-mail client; Slackware recently released FF 2.0.0.11 and offers Thunderbird 2.0.0.9(in security updates).
As you're often hanging around in Debian, you won't discover anything from my answers:
A package can not enter directly in testing. It needs at least 10 days (unless it's priority high==security).. Because newer things are considered untested (from a debian point of view) and then unstable by default. Debian state does not rely on the upstream state: a stable upstream will start unstable in debian.
Also packages which do not work on 11 architectures will not go to testing. Annoying for me (in this only case, I grab it from Unstable), good for people running Dinosaurs..
FF 2.0.0.11 entered mmmhh yesterday
Quote:
My intention is not to offend my friends in the Debian forum as Debian is a first rate distro and I continue to avidly use it.
I always come home though to Slackware as my first choice for my favourite *nix. I'm running two fully-patched Slackware 12.0 boxes at home:-)
Fine, I'm not offended. I just realize that you always come back to your first love ; that's the only argument I see at the moment. Or maybe philosophical with respect to debian process (unstable, stable,..) which is not what I'm curious about.

I don't want to hijack the thread and get stabbed by slackers, I go back to my cave
++
 
Old 12-03-2007, 10:52 AM   #20
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post
Due to personal constraints, I don't think I have the time to go back to recompiling the world so I will probably not go back to Slackware but I'm just curious.
Why would you have to "recompile the world"? I imagine you could just install most of the software as a binary package. Do you install everything from source on Debian?
 
Old 12-03-2007, 11:04 AM   #21
nx5000
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Originally Posted by shadowsnipes View Post
Why would you have to "recompile the world"? I imagine you could just install most of the software as a binary package. Do you install everything from source on Debian?
I had the feeling people using Slackware were mostly recompiling everything..
Like these crazy gentooists
 
Old 12-03-2007, 11:40 AM   #22
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post
FF 2.0.0.11 entered mmmhh yesterday :)
Only two days after Slack. Not bad.



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 12-03-2007, 11:49 AM   #23
nx5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster View Post
Only two days after Slack. Not bad.



Cheers,
Tink
Time to redraw the icon and apply a sed script to change the name FF->Iceweasel

At least I'm using a free software

Actually it was accepted in unstable on the 2nd but it was packaged on the 1st
 
Old 12-03-2007, 12:23 PM   #24
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post
I had the feeling people using Slackware were mostly recompiling everything..
Like these crazy gentooists
As with Debian you can compile stuff if you wish in Slackware. I compile some programs from source that I need in Slackware. But, you don't need to compile programs in Slackware if you don't want to.
Good talking to you, man:-)
 
Old 12-03-2007, 12:30 PM   #25
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post


I don't want to hijack the thread and get stabbed by slackers, I go back to my cave
++
I always check my knife before I enter the LQ forums:-) Yes, there is no technical reason for me to choose Slackware over Debian. It is all good, that is why I use both of them:-)

later,

hitest
 
Old 12-03-2007, 12:53 PM   #26
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post
I had the feeling people using Slackware were mostly recompiling everything..
Like these crazy gentooists
Heh, no I am not one of those people that feel that in order for me to get the most out of my hardware I have to be compiling something 24-7! Maybe some of those people should donate some of their CPU time instead to medical research.

As many Slackers do, I do compile quite a lot of my own software, but I almost never compile anything that is available as an official package. Plus, if I need to setup another machine I just use the packages I have already made; I don't recompile (the world) them again.

This is definitely more selective and intelligent than recompiling half (or even a whole) system just for a few new packages (and their supposed missing/outdated/"too new" dependencies).
 
Old 12-03-2007, 01:22 PM   #27
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx5000 View Post
Actually it was accepted in unstable on the 2nd but it was packaged on the 1st :)
And it was publicly available for Slack 10.2, 11, 12 and current on the 1st :}

10.2 was released in 2005.



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 12-03-2007, 01:26 PM   #28
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowsnipes View Post
As many Slackers do, I do compile quite a lot of my own software, but I almost never compile anything that is available as an official package. Plus, if I need to setup another machine I just use the packages I have already made; I don't recompile (the world) them again.
I agree. I think the word 'recompiling' should be changed to 'compiling' in order for nx5000's statement to be true, because I don't re-compile ... almost ever ... I mean it's quite rare. I compile once and save the package for later.

@ nx5000

I think you're incorrectly grouping Slackware with Gentoo ... no, no, they are very different, and I can see that you have never tried either one (or maybe only Gentoo, but I doubt it).

Besides, how can you learn without doing ? If all you know is apt-get, what do you do when a package isn't in the repo ? You don't use it ? What about when there's something wrong with the kernel on a particular machine, what do you do ? Do you try to compile your own ? Can you ? Would you ?

* readies machete 1d12 *
 
Old 12-03-2007, 04:19 PM   #29
nx5000
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Thumbs up

Wow so many replies! Were you bored among slackers or what?
Sorry Vrajgh..

I won't surrender.
On the 1st of december debian packaged iceweasel for
sparc
powerpc
mipsel
ia64
hppa
i386
amd64
alpha

8 points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster
10.2 was released in 2005.
Not bad. That's an argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H
I think you're incorrectly grouping Slackware with Gentoo ... no, no, they are very different, and I can see that you have never tried either one (or maybe only Gentoo, but I doubt it).
Yes it looks like I had some prejudices about people using slackware.
And no, as I said, the first linux distribution that crossed my PC was the first one I got as a CD, ~10 years ago.
It was the jungle on my PC At the time I was using rpms and sometimes recompiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H
If all you know is apt-get, what do you do when a package isn't in the repo ?
Never happens
We've got the biggest..
...repository
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H
You don't use it ?
Actually some games I do and I'm also maintainer of some packages.
My video driver lacks one byte of c code that is not integrated in testing and without this byte, kernel lockup sometimes. So this is currently my only recompiled stuff that I use everyday.
Quote:
What about when there's something wrong with the kernel on a particular machine, what do you do ? Do you try to compile your own ? Can you ? Would you ?
* readies machete 1d12 *
lol take care with your machete.
Yes I can but I compile it the debian way
I'm not really in IT so I don't have much experience with a lot of hardware. But I do have my own kernel, which is at the minimum 0.001% faster than the default one. At least, it's smaller.

At least I can say that the welcome is good in slackware forum.
Thanks for the replies!

Last edited by nx5000; 12-03-2007 at 04:20 PM.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 04:35 PM   #30
Vrajgh
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Well, as the OP I ought to jump into the discussion and thank everyone for the replies that were directly relevant to me and for everyone else on their asides. It's always interesting to see where discussions lead and what different people think! I


As for me, when I get around to it I'll have a play with Slackware. My system isn't actually broken at the moment so it might take me a while to build up the motivation! The posts on this thread have given me some idea of what I'll need to do post install and I'm in the process of looking through my configs to find any obscure tweaks in my current config that I might have to copy in the next install.

I'll probably continue the wanderings from distro to distro that everyone does. Oddly though, I tend to stick with the same distro for at least a year before moving on. I read a lot of newbie threads about people who've tried out half a dozen within the first month or two. That sounds too much like hard work for me!
 
  


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