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-   -   Rethinking the description during install? (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/rethinking-the-description-during-install-869002/)

Skaperen 03-16-2011 01:47 PM
Rethinking the description during install?
 
Back in the days of slow machines, displaying the package description during an install provided for some reading to break up the boredom (if one was inspired to sit there and watch it do the install). Now days, the descriptions just fly by, several a second most of the time (unless doing things manually).

Do we really need this anymore? It's unreadable.

I'd rather see a list of packages being installed scroll by, one package name per line (with size info). Even that might get hard to read during the buzz of small packages being installed causing rapid scrolls.

volkerdi 03-16-2011 02:12 PM
Hasn't it been fun to see the speed increase over the years? :D

szboardstretcher 03-16-2011 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi (Post 4292933)
Hasn't it been fun to see the speed increase over the years? :D
Yes it has.

I agree that the packages fly by too quickly to be read anymore. Perhaps a slideshow of some sort would be better utilized in the installation.

I remember typing 'dir' on the old 8088 and having a 20 file directory go by slowly enough to read it. :D

Skaperen 03-16-2011 03:16 PM
I don't know that a slideshow would be the Slackware way. A scrolling list of packages, in text mode, of course, seems right to me. Well, if you can make a text slideshow, then maybe.

marafa 03-16-2011 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 4292910)
Back in the days of slow machines, displaying the package description during an install provided for some reading to break up the boredom (if one was inspired to sit there and watch it do the install). Now days, the descriptions just fly by, several a second most of the time (unless doing things manually).

Do we really need this anymore? It's unreadable.

I'd rather see a list of packages being installed scroll by, one package name per line (with size info). Even that might get hard to read during the buzz of small packages being installed causing rapid scrolls.
skaperen you may have a point but then again. i know some ppl who install from media or worse over a 512kb dsl line that doesnt get its full advertised speed.

and to volkerding - :) slackware 2 with a 100 diskettes (download, format floppy, copy to floppy, start install, insert requested floppy, remove floppy for next requested floppy) was too much for me - maybe i will revisit slackware soon but still my hat is off to you :)

Skaperen 03-16-2011 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marafa (Post 4293002)
slackware 2 with a 100 diskettes (download, format floppy, copy to floppy, start install, insert requested floppy, remove floppy for next requested floppy) was too much for me - maybe i will revisit slackware soon but still my hat is off to you :)
I remember those days ;) But I don't think it was quite 100 diskettes. More like 80.

TobiSGD 03-16-2011 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 4292998)
Well, if you can make a text slideshow, then maybe.
LOL, maybe some ASCII art.

sahko 03-16-2011 10:14 PM
I agree with Skaperen. In my own packages i use 3-lined slack-desc's.
1 for package description, 1 blank, 1 for homepage of the application.

The rest is a waste of time and space, writing, maintaining, scrolling and in any way dealing with. Thanks for bringing this up.

edit: Although i have to admit, some of them are actually educational.

fskmh 03-17-2011 06:15 AM
The short duration with which the messages are displayed may lessen their value during installation, but their utility after installation is undeniable because:
a) You can simply less /var/log/packages/pkgnam-blah-blah to get a description. (If it's a Slack dist package you can also see what "diskset" it came from.)
b) AFAIK gslapt displays this info when you click on a package.
c) The pkgnam-blah-blah.txt file is generated from slack-desc when the package is made, and this text file is very useful for reading about a package that you might be unfamiliar with before downloading it.
d) Some of the seemingly dated wisdom that went into the design of Slackware is timeless and can potentially save your butt when unanticipated problems arise.

Skaperen 03-17-2011 08:42 AM
I'm not against having descriptions somewhere. I just don't see the need to having the screen flashing a bunch of different sized blocks real fast. OTOH, it can make me look like Mr. Data if I stare at this when people walk by :cool:

Wed 03-17-2011 04:58 PM
Isn't it actually even worse?

During a system install from scratch, and browsing packages in the categories list, the description doesn't fit on the screen and thus unreadable. While installing, the descriptions flash by quicker than readable.

If installing manually, the package is already installed when you can see the description. You must have opted to install the package before the description is visible.

The only package descriptions I have ever read to the full extent, are those on slackbuilds.org.

My preference for system install, would be to see the package names scroll by. If anything catches the eye, there are some second to focus before it escapes off the screen.

T3slider 03-17-2011 05:12 PM
Or perhaps a persistent indication of the current package set being installed in the title bar of each installing package dialog so you can have an idea of the actual progress at a glance without having to memorize which packages are in each package set...

lumak 03-17-2011 05:17 PM
Lets add a toggle option!

Hrmmms perhaps write to a fifo buffer the list of packages processed and display that in one mode while displaying the descriptions in the other mode?

Skaperen 03-18-2011 08:10 AM
I was installing slackware64-current last night, within qemu in 64-bit emulation, on a 32-bit system. I could read the descriptions!

allend 03-18-2011 09:39 AM
You can always modify the installer.
Dump the -infobox option to installpkg and add an echo for the $package variable.
Do not try to be too cute as this runs in BusyBox.
Code:
installseries() {
  if [ -d $SRCPATH/$1 ]; then
    # First, make sure our tagfiles are in order:
    if [ ! -r $TMP/tagfiles/$1/tagfile -a ! $MODE = full ]; then
      updatetagfiles $1
    fi
    # First, make sure there's at least one package:
    if ! ls $SRCPATH/$series/*.t?z 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null ; then
      return 1
    fi
    dialog --infobox "
Installing package series ==>$1<==
" 5 45
    sleep 1
    # Install the package series:
    for package in $SRCPATH/$series/*.t?z ; do
      [ "x$REMOTESVR" != "x" ] && get_pkg $series $(basename $package) '-q'
      if [ "$MODE" = "full" ]; then # install the package
        installpkg -root $ROOTDIR -infobox -priority ADD $package
        ERROR=$?
      else
        installpkg -root $ROOTDIR -menu -tagfile $TMP/tagfiles/$1/tagfile $package
        ERROR=$?
      fi
      if [ ! $ERROR = 0 ]; then
        errorcode $ERROR $package
      fi
      [ "x$REMOTESVR" != "x" ] && zap_pkg $series $(basename $package)
    done
    # A "README_SPLIT.TXT" file means the series continues on another CD:
    if [ -r $SRCPATH/$series/README_SPLIT.TXT -o -r $SRCPATH/$series/readme_split.txt ] ; then
      # Defer until later.
      echo $1 >> $TMP/series/series.out
    fi
  else # requested, but not on media.  defer until later.
    echo $1 >> $TMP/series/series.out
  fi
}
From /usr/lib/setup/slackinstall in the 13.1 initrd.img

Skaperen 03-18-2011 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allend (Post 4295019)
Do not try to be too cute as this runs in BusyBox.
You mean like: don't add a test for an environment variable to be used to apply this option or not?

allend 03-18-2011 06:25 PM
Quote:
You mean like: don't add a test for an environment variable to be used to apply this option or not?
That should be fine.

My experiments with modifying the installer were confined to adding support for ntfs-3g as I wanted to PXE boot a minimal system on some Windows machines for imaging to an NTFS formattted external USB drive. I did come across some differences in the BusyBox versions of commands while playing with this. This was the source of my comment.

chrisretusn 03-18-2011 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 4292910)
Do we really need this anymore? It's unreadable.

I'd rather see a list of packages being installed scroll by, one package name per line (with size info). Even that might get hard to read during the buzz of small packages being installed causing rapid scrolls.
It's not that bad. Really doesn't matter much to me what scrolls by. Most of the time I don't sit and watch.

You could always opt for prompt for everything, then there would be no problem reading. ;)

anti_user 03-19-2011 02:25 AM
Code:
Sat Mar 19 04:37:14 UTC 2011
a/pkgtools-13.37-noarch-2.tgz: Rebuilt.
      Add --terse one-line output mode to installpkg.

lumak 03-19-2011 04:42 AM
Haha that was fast.

How about another last minute addition of adding a proper word dictionary so that I don't have to install hangman from the BSD games ;P

ruario 03-19-2011 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti_user (Post 4295835)
Code:
Sat Mar 19 04:37:14 UTC 2011
a/pkgtools-13.37-noarch-2.tgz: Rebuilt.
      Add --terse one-line output mode to installpkg.
I thought I would just try this out on one of my own self made packages:

Code:
# installpkg --terse opera-11.10.2053-i386-1ro.txz
opera-11.10.2053-i386-1ro: fast and secure web browser and Internet suit [30M]
# grep -A1 DESCRIPTION /var/log/packages/opera-11.10.2053-i386-1ro
PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
opera: A fast and secure web browser and Internet suite.
What happened to 'A' from the start and 'e.' from the end in the terse output? It seems like it is cropping from either end.

Probably not a major issue if you realise what it is doing but it might cause some people to be confused depending on how the description has been written.

Alien Bob 03-19-2011 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario (Post 4295975)
I thought I would just try this out on one of my own self made packages:

Code:
# installpkg --terse opera-11.10.2053-i386-1ro.txz
opera-11.10.2053-i386-1ro: fast and secure web browser and Internet suit [30M]
# grep -A1 DESCRIPTION /var/log/packages/opera-11.10.2053-i386-1ro
PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
opera: A fast and secure web browser and Internet suite.
What happened to 'A' from the start and 'e.' from the end in the terse output? It seems like it is cropping from either end.

Probably not a major issue if you realise what it is doing but it might cause some people to be confused depending on how the description has been written.
Your slack-desc file does not conform to the specs.
The first line should look like:

Code:
pkgname: pkgname (short description)
Since the first line of your slack-desc file is lacking the ( ) the effect of "--terse" is that the first and last character of your short description are cut off instead of the "(" and ")".

Eric

ruario 03-19-2011 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob (Post 4295982)
Your slack-desc file does not conform to the specs.
The first line should look like:

Code:
pkgname: pkgname (short description)
Opps. Yes you are right of course, it doesn't. Ok, I'll correct that now then! Thanks. ;)

ruario 03-19-2011 07:36 AM
I think I originally read about the formatting of the slack-desc here http://slackwiki.org/Slack-desc and looking back now it isn't clear on this point. Though I see from looking at the official packages that the method you describe is clearly correct.

Alien Bob 03-19-2011 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario (Post 4295992)
I think I originally read about the formatting of the slack-desc here http://slackwiki.org/Slack-desc and looking back now it isn't clear on this point. Though I see from looking at the official packages that the method you describe is clearly correct.
I updated the SlackWiki page http://slackwiki.org/Slack-desc so that this requirement is clear.

Eric

ruario 03-19-2011 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob (Post 4295999)
I updated the SlackWiki page http://slackwiki.org/Slack-desc so that this requirement is clear.
I saw that, thanks. I has just finished registering to do that myself and then saw that you beat me to the punch. ;)

Darth Vader 03-19-2011 11:43 AM
Is just my biased feeling, or this thread should be marked as SOLVED, thinking that PV introduced the TERSE mode in installer? ;)

gmartin 03-19-2011 12:44 PM
Congrats to Skaperen for asking a good question & thanks to Pat & the Slackware guys for a quick implementation.

Skaperen 03-19-2011 05:24 PM
Trying it now. Looks nice. Thanks to Pat and the team.

Darth Vader 03-19-2011 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 4296448)
Trying it now. Looks nice. Thanks to Pat and the team.
Then, make this frakking thread solved, man! :D

niels.horn 03-19-2011 10:44 PM
Uhm, I always like watching the slack-desc of aalib flashing by...

ruario 03-20-2011 02:28 AM
Code:
a/pkgtools-13.37-noarch-3.tgz:  Rebuilt.
  Accept non-standard slack-desc for installpkg --terse.
Thanks PatV. ;) Obviously, I went and fixed my own packages but that will help any others out there who made this same mistake.

Ramurd 03-21-2011 07:24 AM
... Great community-driven thinking and implementation! Now what we really need is a command to read all the long descriptions, as so much typing work has been put in them to be written, that they should also be read; it would go somewhere along these lines:

Code:
ls /var/log/packages | while read fn
do
    START=`cat /var/log/packages/${fn} | grep -n "PACKAGE DESCRIPTION" | cut -d ':' -f 1`
    END=`cat /var/log/packages/${fn} | grep -n "FILE LIST" | cut -d ':' -f 1`
    ((END-=1))
    ((LINES=END-START))
    cat /var/log/packages/${fn} | head -n ${END} | tail -n ${LINES} | cut -d ':' -f 2

    echo -n "Press -enter- for the next package"
    read go_on
done
Also, what'd have been cool is an animated ascii of a penguin with a wizard hat telling how fast and more stable everything has become... ^.^

Skaperen 03-21-2011 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader (Post 4296458)
Then, make this frakking thread solved, man! :D
Oh, sorry, I wasn't thinking of this as a problem, but a discussion. But I marked it.


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