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Old 01-17-2020, 06:32 PM   #46
enorbet
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LOL Well I'm not gonna go THAT far but I think it is important to make this very clear....

I think uninstance should have put this in bold, too. "THIS only works for -Current"

It is possible to achieve in 14.2 but it's a bit more complex and not without tradeoffs.
 
Old 01-17-2020, 09:59 PM   #47
wael_h
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I live with previous alsa* and pulseaudio

Hello all;

I hope this info is helpful to someone.
To start, I have a machine with poor linux support when it comes to PCI and PCIE drivers, it has intel
C600/X79 chipset.

Hardware:
Machine: Dell workstation T5600 was made in 2012 has latest bios dated 6/30/2019.
Audio Devices:
Quote:
root@yafa:~# lspci | grep -i audio
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation C600/X79 series chipset High Definition Audio Controller (rev 05)
05:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GF110 High Definition Audio Controller (rev a1)
09:04.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs EMU10k1X [SB Live! Value/OEM Series]
root@yafa:~#
Software:
Slackware64 current, upgraded up to date, with kernel 5.4.11.

I do not use nvidia audio. I like and use the SURROUND sound in SoundBlaster.
My pulseaudio problem started last May, when alsa-lib, alsa-utils and alsa-plugins
were upgraded to version 1.1.9. Pulseaudio was rebuilt soon after and later upgraded to
version 13.0 - September.

I could not use SURROUND sound on my creative lab SoundBlaster, stereo worked fine.
When SoundBlaster was configured for surround sound, errors were logged into my system
log and dmesg, sound was crackling/skipping and volume controls were useless ...
no surround in short.

What I did was downgrade alsa-{lib,utils,plugins} to 1.1.8 and pulseaudio to 12.2.
I had to compile all packages from source, I got them from slackware cumulative history
site here: Alsa packages built okay, that was NOT the case for pulseaudio, volume-test was failing
toward the end of compilation. I tried a fix posted online for removing --ffast-math compiler
flag, that did not work, volume-test still failed. I added --disable-tests switch to
configuration statement and pulseaudio was built. I have been using it for a while now, I do
not know if it will fail in the future. For now I can use surround sound with my SoundBlaster.

My modified pulseaudio.SlackBuild: https://pastebin.com/MXS2qZsj
Note the added 2 switches below:
--disable-bluez5 \
--disable-tests \

On a side note: /etc/rc.d/rc.alsa and /etc/rc.d/rc.alsa-oss had to be removed by hand,
removepkg did not delete them! I renamed them actually with:

Quote:
root@yafa:~# mv /etc/rc.d/rc.alsa /etc/rc.d/rc.alsa-hide
root@yafa:~# mv /etc/rc.d/rc.alsa-oss /etc/rc.d/rc.alsa-oss-hide
Good luck to all
Wael H.
 
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:24 PM   #48
unInstance
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In this post you can see my instructions as to how to go pure ALSA on SlackWare -current. Do NOT follow the CONFIGURATION part! So you have to do what I say at the beginning only: get rid of PulseAudio and its garbage, replace Pulse based packages with ALSA based ones and configure slackpkg(8) to fetch ALSA packages. You stop here. From that point you keep reading there -> That is a crappy config which will deprive you of your microphone. Here is a new one from me! It works. It is perfect. Look closely and you will see the file and the folder <- All of that you have to put in /etc. It is perfectly documented so READ EVERY FILE and you will get the philosophy of writing ALSA configs. But... If you do not want to... You can just open sound_card.conf in asound folder and substitute your card number/name (aplay -l) to make it work. That is it. It werks. Use apulse for not working with ALSA programs (like Firefox). Keep in mind if you have apulse then during the compile time programs will think that you use PulseAudio and therefore be built for use with PulseAudio. To prevent this, remove apulse, build the shit, and put apulse back.

But... Before you do it... There is a chance that you have a really good sound card (capable of hardware mixing and hardware volume control), therefore you do not need the linked above config. What you do need is just this (save it as /etc/asound.conf)... Try it if you do not know.
Code:
# /etc/asound.conf
pcm.!default {
        type hw
        card 0 # Substitute your card here (aplay -l).
}

ctl.!default {
        type hw
        card 0 # And here.
}
If you are a really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really curious guy, by the way you should be, then read this and take a look at the list of plugins.

Last edited by unInstance; 03-27-2020 at 05:18 AM.
 
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:22 PM   #49
FTIO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unInstance View Post
In this post you can see my instructions as to how to go pure ALSA on SlackWare -current. Do NOT follow the CONFIGURATION part! So you have to do what I say at the beginning only: get rid of PulseAudio and its garbage, replace Pulse based packages with ALSA based ones and configure slackpkg(8) to fetch ALSA packages. You stop here. From that point you keep reading there -> That is a crappy config which will deprive you of your microphone. Here is a new one from me! It works. It is perfect. Look closely and you will see the file and the folder <- All of that you have to put in /etc. It is perfectly documented so READ EVERY FILE and you will get the philosophy of writing ALSA configs. But... If you do not want to... You can just open sound_card.conf in asound folder and substitute your card number/name (aplay -l) to make it work. That is it. It werks. Use apulse for not working with ALSA programs. Keep in mind if you have apulse than during the compile time programs will think that you use PulseAudio and therefore be built for use with PulseAudio. To prevent this, remove apulse, build the shit, and put apulse back.

But... Before you do it... There is a chance that you have a really good sound card (capable of hardware mixing and hardware volume control), therefore you do not need the linked above config. What you do need is just this (save it as /etc/asound.conf)... Try it if you do not know.
Code:
# /etc/asound.conf
pcm.!default {
        type hw
        card 0 # Substitute your card here (aplay -l).
}

ctl.!default {
        type hw
        card 0 # And here.
}
If you are a really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really curious guy, by the way you should be, then read this and take a look at the list of plugins.
I'd give my right cod to do all that, but, in the past years I've tried others' suggestions and have no idea what mess I have working in my system anymore, other than I still have sound. Jumping through all the hoops again though has just got me so...down and bummed that I simply can't do it again. I just don't have the energy. I'll just hope that with the next version of 15ackware there will be some way to be able to choose which I want in my system - crapaudio...I mean pulseaudio, or alsa - which works and far better IMHO. I can dream and hope!

But thank you very much for all the work you've put into solving this for 14.2!
 
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:32 AM   #50
selfprogrammed
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I see such discussions on PulseAudio are still going on. I had a question like this and finally had to CLOSE it just to stop the harassment of the people trying to find a solution.
I recognize some of the same names, and the same statements, like the one that claims that PulseAudio works on his system, so therefore you just have to use it too. (( After I closed the thread, bassmadrigal sends me a private email, just to insult me some more. I still got that email, it has some choice bits that I could quote. It was unfortunate that immediately before discovering this thread, I had re-discovered that email, and re-read it. ))
((( This part being to warn the Question poster, about how I was treated asking a similar question, so he knows past history. I am really getting tired of the PulseAudio trolls. )))

PulseAudio could not handle my hardware at all, so I had to prevent it from trying.
Because it could not deal with the hardware, it insisted on creating some kind of audio sink, and absorbed all audio, even intercepting that directed to ALSA, sending it nowhere.
According to the PulseAudio supporters, I was wrong to abandon PulseAudio though, I was still supposed to be using it, somehow.

I have got the PulseAudio on my system mostly tamed so that ALSA gets used and PulseAudio is ignored.
I left it installed just to handle a few odd programs, redirecting to ALSA, but I have not seen it get used in years.
I did not have to recompile programs though, just had to reconfigure PulseAudio to not start up on its own.
It seems that most programs will find ALSA on their own.
I have tested this, those programs still can be heard, even when the PulseAudio volume control is turned down.
It has been a while, so if you are going to ask questions about the setup, I am going to have to double check everything again.
I has been rather nice, that I have been able to totally ignore the PulseAudio for so many years.

The most reasonable person was the guy from PulseAudio. I gave him my hardware specs, so they could fix PulseAudio. I don't think I every heard back from him again. Not going to provide those hardware specs to any third party PulseAudio supporters though (so don't ask). Too much past history, I don't trust them.

Last edited by selfprogrammed; 04-19-2020 at 12:19 PM.
 
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Old 04-19-2020, 11:14 AM   #51
garpu
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You've got a lot of audiophiles here, and if you don't give hardware, it's hard to give advice as to some of the problems you have. There's too much that could go wrong, and different audio hardware acts differently, given the situation, what you're doing with it, and what other software you're using.

I'm finding that linuxquestions.org is a great place, but you got to help us out, too. Paranoia and blame isn't going to get you very far.
 
Old 04-19-2020, 03:21 PM   #52
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selfprogrammed View Post
(( After I closed the thread, bassmadrigal sends me a private email, just to insult me some more. I still got that email, it has some choice bits that I could quote. It was unfortunate that immediately before discovering this thread, I had re-discovered that email, and re-read it. ))
I have nothing I'm embarrassed about in my PMs to you, and I'll quote them here so people don't think I act differently in PMs vs what I write on the forum.

Nowhere in those PMs (or on the forum) have I said that people are wrong for wanting pulseaudio removed if it doesn't work for them, but I did state, as I continue to state, that there are many who have pulseaudio work without issue (and I imagine those users that it works for far outnumbers the users who have issues with it). There is always the expectation that what solution works for most won't work for all. Slackware is not designed to work for everyone's setup, but to support as many as it can. There have been countless experiences documented on the forum where people have had to tailor Slackware to their needs since it didn't support their situation out of the box.

And since those PMs, Pat has decided to try and support more use cases by providing pure-alsa in extra/. I'm glad that option exists for those who aren't able to use pulseaudio like intended in Slackware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal
If you really want your thread closed, you should request it to be closed by the mods... otherwise anyone can still post in it, no matter your wishes. (Although, I don't know if mods respond to close requests). I seriously thought about posting this in there, since you had a very one-sided point of view on your last post.

But you bring up an interesting point:

Quote:
I deleted most of the RANT I had here, simply because there are too many people who just want to get a word in and they don't consider that they are just saying "it works for me" to a bunch of people for whom it does not work. No amount of RANT is going to get them to think twice about what they are saying, or where they choose to say it. This is a problem in too many of the threads in Linux Questions.
What about the opposite of your problem. So many people have had issues with alsa in the past. Do you have any idea how many threads exist on the forum where we've needed to try and help people resolve their audio issues? (They are usually because hdmi audio out is set as default.) Let me tell you, a lot. I've had the issue, and I've helped plenty with the issue. While there is a vocal group of people with pulseaudio issues, who knows how many people are using it problem-free. I'd imagine its orders of magnitude more. Not to mention that bluetooth audio would've been broken if pulseaudio wasn't added (or it would be held back to an older version... see below about that).

You seem to only be concerned about the problems pulseaudio caused, not the solutions it provided. Yes, some software may not work when system software is upgraded/replaced. That's the software business. If applications can't be tailored to use standardized libraries (and as much as I hate to say it, pulseaudio is standardized with just about EVERY distro using it), then that is the application's fault, not the OS maintainer. Pat can't simply hold back the OS because a few people need programs that refuse to work properly with an industry standard.

So, while Slackware might've gotten it wrong *for you*, that doesn't mean they got it wrong for the overall progress of Slackware. I haven't made the decision on that second one (whether or not it has been beneficial for Slackware), since I am one of those "irritating" people that use their computer like 90%+ of the population... not needing any special requirements for audio. Pulseaudio works for me, but after a bit of quick tweaking, so did alsa. Pulseaudio is a bit easier in that regard, but I would not be disappointed if they went back to only alsa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by selfprogrammed
It has never been the policy of Slackware in the past to break Legacy software. In fact it is one of the dist that was best in this regards.

What happened with PulseAudio in Slackware is suspicious. Someone decided to kick ALSA into the ditch rather than leave around the support files that it needed. It did not take very many adjustments to make PulseAudio work with ALSA, after I restored the missing files from another version of Slackware. I have some doubt that everyone at Slackware knew what was being done.

The thread is for helping with that effort. As the OP, I made it clear what the topic was, and that arguments were not welcome. PulseAudio has been argued in other threads, and anyone who wants to defend PulseAudio can start their own thread, it can be dedicated to arguing. In this thread it interferes with the OP topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal
Legacy software within Slackware wasn't broken, but legacy software outside of Slackware is fair game for breakage. Do you think that Slackware had to make concessions for software that was only designed to work with XFree86 when Slackware moved to Xorg? What about software that is only designed to work with the 2.6 kernel when we moved to the 3.x and 4.x kernels (or when they moved from the 2.4 or 2.0 kernels)? What about when the binary system was switched from a.out to ELF?

Slackware can't maintain support for all legacy software that isn't shipped with Slackware, because if it did, it would be stuck in the past. We'd still be running 1.x kernel circa 1995. Slackware can't honestly be expected to maintain support for some piece of software that hasn't been touched in 10-20 years. If it works, great. If it doesn't, then it's time to try and start patching or looking for an alternative (or keeping an old version around that does still run the software)... or you can try and take an axe to your current install to try and cut out what is causing the problem and hack something back in place (I'm not talking specifically to your pulseaudio issue, but problems with older software in general). Slackware 14.2 users can't even use older AMD proprietary drivers because AMD never added support for Xorg 1.18. Should Slackware have kept Xorg on 1.17 just so that driver would work? No, because then -current would still be at 1.17 and Xorg and mesa wouldn't have all the newer features that are there now.

As for being OP and specifying the rules of the thread, there are no rules of the forum stating that the thread can only contain what OP desires. Any member is free to comment on any thread unless it is locked (however, they state, "Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack. Differing opinions is one of the things that make this site great."). You're free to mark a thread as solved, but that doesn't mean that people can no longer post there. If LQ wanted to provide OPs that ability, they'd give OPs the ability to close their own threads.

There are some very knowledgeable people you rudely shut out just because you said you didn't want input from people who are not having problems with it. Just because someone isn't having the problem you're having doesn't mean they can't help with the issue. If that were the case, I wouldn't be able to help the vast majority of people here because I'm not having the problem they're having. But just because I don't have that problem doesn't mean I may not be able to help them solve the problem.

But if you really think you have the answer on how to handle pulseaudio in Slackware, feel free to shoot Pat an email or post it in the Requests for -current thread. If it is viable and doesn't break packages already in Slackware (namely BlueZ 5.x since they no longer support alsa), he may be willing to put it in. Although, if you do decide to email him, you really should cut back on the rude, unforgiving attitude.
 
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Old 04-20-2020, 02:18 PM   #53
Alien Bob
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Thanks bassmadrigal for sharing your reply with us. I could not conceive that your reply would have looked otherwise. Mr. selfprogrammed might want to reconsider the way he wants to interact with people in this forum. After all this is "linux questions", not "this is my topic and I refuse to allow people to express an opinion which is not mirroring my own".
 
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Old 04-20-2020, 06:31 PM   #54
Regnad Kcin
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PulseAudio works ok for me.
Everything has a learning curve.
At one time I learned about ALSA.
Later I learned about PulseAudio.
I rather prefer PulseAudio's graphic interface and the visual feedback.

The thing I like about Slackware continually is the general ability to
customise things and drop as deep into the rabbit hole as you want to go
without running into an impassible locked door.
Some effort may be required.
 
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Old 04-20-2020, 06:59 PM   #55
rkelsen
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Whenever I see this topic it makes me wonder if these people also remove NetworkManager, DBUS, HAL & (e)udev since they're all on the same philosophical level.

I get it. I look back with great fondness on the days when you could run "modprobe emu10k1" on a clean Slackware installation and have working sound.
 
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Old 04-28-2020, 05:42 AM   #56
unInstance
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This is a minimal and universal ALSA config to just make sound work. Link everyone in need to this post.
All you have to do is substitute your sound card number. Use aplay -l to get it.

Before you start! If you have a good external sound card, you may not need software configuration because it can do everything at hardware level. If it is the case, then here is full config that you need... All you have to do it to select the card.
Code:
pcm.!default {
        type hw
        card 0 # Use 'aplay -l' to find your card and put here.
}

ctl.!default {
        type hw           
        card 0 # Same number put here as well.
}
If aplay -l output confuses you, then just try every card one-by-one. YOU ARE DONE.

If the above thing is not the case, here is what you are going to do... I split configuration into two files: one for configuration and one where to define a sound card.
Save this as /etc/asound.conf and do not touch it. I documented everything so that you can know what is happening.
Code:
# Includes (supports absolute paths only)
#
</etc/sound_card.conf> # Define sound_card to use

# dmix plugin
#
# Configure software mixing―the ability to play sounds from different
# applications at the same time through the same device.
#
pcm.dmixed {
	type dmix
	ipc_key 1024 # Must be unique across plugins!
	slave {
		pcm "sound_card" # Defined in sound_card.conf file.
                channels 2
		period_time 0
		period_size 1024
		buffer_size 8192
		rate 44100
	}
	bindings {
		0 0
		1 1
	}
}

# dsnoop plugin
#
# The dmix plugin is for mixing multiple *output* streams together. If you want
# multiple programs to access your microphone (*input* stream) simultaneously,
# you need the dsnoop plugin.
#
pcm.dsnoopped {
        type dsnoop
        ipc_key 5978293 # Must be unique across plugins!
        ipc_key_add_uid yes
        slave {
                pcm "sound_card" # Defined in sound_card.conf file.
                channels 2
                period_size 1024
                buffer_size 4096
                rate 44100
                periods 0 
                period_time 0
        }
	bindings {
		0 0
		1 1
	}
}

# asym plugin
#
# This plugin combines playback and capture PCM streams together. 
# If you set dmix to be the slave in pcm.!default then you will not be able to
# use the microphone because dmix works with playback only.
#
# You have to combine both playback (output) and capture (input) streams
# together with asym plugin and set it to be a single slave in pcm.!default
#
# Dependency map:
#	(1) YOUR CARD (playback)	YOUR CARD (capture)
#	    |				|
#	    v				v
#	(2) dmix: playback mixing	dsnoop: capture mixing
#	    |				|
#	    v				v
#	(3) asym: combine playback and capture strams in one
#	    |
#	    v
#	(4) pcm.!default
#
# (1 and 2) We take the raw *playback* stream from the sound card and pipe it
# through the dmix plugin in order to be able to play sound from more than one
# program simultaneously. At the same layer we take the raw *capture* stream and
# do the same with but with the use of dsnoop instead of dmix. (3) We combine
# both the playback and capture streams into one just for the sake of ALSA. (4)
# Make a device/interface that behaves the way we defined earlier and through
# which programs in our computer can talk to the sound card.
#
pcm.asymed {
	type asym
	playback.pcm "dmixed"
	capture.pcm "dsnoopped"
}

# Define the above mentioned device/interface through which programs in our
# computer can talk to the sound card. We call this device 'default' because, by
# default every piece of software tries to talk to the device named 'default'.
# So the 'default' name makes no special sense in ALSA but it does make it for
# the programs that try to play sounds.
#
# '!' sign is used to override the original default value set by ALSA.
#
pcm.!default = {
	type plug
	slave.pcm = "asymed"
}
 
# As you may have noticed, 'pcm.<name>' commands are used to contol the
# behavior of individual plugins. Apart from this there are similar commands
# such as 'ctl.<name>', which let your alsamixer know which settings to show
# when you start it.  For instance, if you open a terminal window and type in
# 'alsamixer', you probably expect it to open sound card settings. But it does
# NOT know about them. You have to specify this using ctl.default:
#
#	ctl.!default { # '!' is used to override the original default set by ALSA
#		type hw
#		card 0
#	}
#
# From now alsamixer should know that you want to control your sound card when
# you start it. If you do it this way...
#
#	ctl.!default {
#		type equal
#	}
#
# then 'alsamixer' will open equalizer settings. ctl.default defines which
# settings to open when you start alsamixer without any arguments. Aside from
# ctl.default we can define different interfaces as well. For example...
#
#	ctl.fuckyou {
#		type equal
#	}
#
# I defined a 'fuckyou' device. In order to open this device in alsamixer, you
# have to type 'alsamixer -D fuckyou' in your terminal. The -D option specifies
# the ctl interface name (the one after the dot).

# This sets the default inteface for alsamixer, the one that starts when you
# launch alsamixer without any arguments.
#
ctl.!default = ctl.sound_card # Defined in sound_card.conf file.
Then you save the following file as /etc/sound_card.conf and use aplay -l to substitute your card number.
Code:
# Define sound_card to be your sound card's name.
#
pcm.sound_card {
	type hw
	card 1 # Select your card from /proc/asound/cards (or aplay -l).
}

ctl.sound_card {
	type hw
	card 1 # And here as well to be able to open it with alsamixer.
}

Last edited by unInstance; 04-28-2020 at 05:45 AM.
 
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:01 AM   #57
enorbet
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UPDATE - FWIW later versions of -Current "pure-alsa-system" are not working for me. I don't expect it to work with KTown, since apparently Patrick hasn't officially announced his support yet, but I've had problems with KDE v4.x for a few months now. After running "sh ./README" which completes without error, I can no longer "startkde" by any method. KDM still works but any attempt at launching KDE fails. Trying to login to runlevel 3 as "user" and attempting to run "startx" fails with cannot find "libpulse".

This is exactly the sort of hard dependency that really chaps my butt about Pulse. I haven't done deep level programming in years so could someone explain to me why it is apparently so difficult to code for "default sound server" or allow for a backup to what exists when Pulse libraries are not found? If you think Pulse is a merely a successor to ALSA, try removing ALSA and see/hear how great sound works. ALSA is where the rubber meets the road. IT, or something that doesn't yet exist, should be Default, not Pulse. GRRRRrrr! What a royal PITA, and started by stupid Bluetooth that has since dropped the issue. Double GGGrrrrr.

NOTE: To avoid confusion for others and to compare for myself, I have multiple installs of -Current... one with KTown, 2 with KDE4.

Last edited by enorbet; 05-07-2020 at 11:03 AM.
 
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Old 05-07-2020, 12:02 PM   #58
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
If you think Pulse is a merely a successor to ALSA, try removing ALSA and see/hear how great sound works.
As you already found out, PA is a layer on top of Alsa, to especially make multi-application access to the sound system easier.
The API (Programmable Interface) is wholly different, so programs need two different sets of coding, for Alsa OR for PA, to be able to do both (and a lot developers do not bother).
The switch between those two sets of coding is normally at COMPILE time, not runtime, that's why the separate "pure-alsa" directory in -current.
 
Old 05-07-2020, 12:31 PM   #59
Didier Spaier
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That it takes so many posts for some to not understand that one can have installed libpulse.so without ever starting a pulseaudio server is beyond me. That people feel the need to spend (waste, IMO) a lot of efforts to remove a software from their system instead of just not using it is beyond me. That Pat accepted to maintain two versions of software to satisfy the pulseaudio haters is beyond me.

This was my rant of the day, thanks for your attention, now everyone may resume the tasks interrupted to read it.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 05-07-2020 at 12:49 PM.
 
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:05 PM   #60
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehartman View Post
As you already found out, PA is a layer on top of Alsa, to especially make multi-application access to the sound system easier.
The API (Programmable Interface) is wholly different, so programs need two different sets of coding, for Alsa OR for PA, to be able to do both (and a lot developers do not bother).
The switch between those two sets of coding is normally at COMPILE time, not runtime, that's why the separate "pure-alsa" directory in -current.

Thanks but I get all that. I don't get why software doesn't just defer to The System Default Sound Server and let others deal with it, which if one has sound, one already has.
 
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