EDIT: reformed original post. Ignore this post.

You will know if/when he so decides. The answer to the next question: "when will he decide?" is: "when he will be ready "

Please forgive me my ignorance, as well as the needless extension of yet another systemd thread, but shouldn't it be possible to start systemd so that hard dependencies (such as udev) are satisfied, and then have systemd launch the classic init?

No. Because systemd run everything in its very own cgroup container, so, launching another init from systemd pid1, you'll end in something similar with a LXC container.

Hmm ... I think it might soon get harder and harder to hold out. It since looks like Ubuntu just folded as well. That doesn't leave many distros not on the systemd bandwagon. Just us and Gentoo? Or have I missed others?

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316

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CRUX developer Fredrik Rinnestam also expressed that he is against systemd: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux...ux.devel/2292/ (It's from 2012, though.)

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So... where does that leave us? That is, what is the alternative? FreeBSD?

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As did the members - in similar strong terms

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the kernel is all we really need
and the kernel has a rule that goes something like "don't break shit"
combined with the mentality of "every bug is of same importance" i don't think Linus will allow systemd devs to break the kernel (i know one tried)

also ofc, where there's a will there's a way

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Kernel plus Busybox - and you have what runs the majority of all Linux machines worldwide...

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Fortunately Slackware project does not suffer from similar BS like executive committee, regulations, voting, bigmouth promises like "guaranteed" release cycle you can "rely" on, big-corporate money back-up and arising own interests from etc.
Just the long-term almost 10 years positive experience matters. The rest are just words, noise..

I didn't become involved in many endless debates about this RedHat's cancer. Yep, I don't like it and personally see no one serious reason which can justify so wide and deep system changes its adoption causes.

I'd wish Slackware would avoid it as far as all important upstream software included in distribution allows to be packaged without too much hassle.

This is a major intervention and for our business it does mean even to ditch Linux completely. Fortunately there are still free BSD systems, however narrower hardware support complicates things a bit for the lasting contracts but they are already being solved.

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It seems they considered developing udev but only time will tell
Quote from Pat:

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One thing I completely dislike about systemd is that literally it acts as a locked hypervisor to the GNU OS. There's no shell interaction with systemd at all because it's completely self-contained unlike every other init system out there that interacts with the system shell. There's near-zero administrator level inside of systemd unlike bsdinit, sysvinit, runit, s6, upstart or any other init system.

I think honestly people have gone insane over this software being viable. The guy from CRUX made a good hint. Mdev is a step back in time, but maybe that's what needs to be done. Maybe this is a metaphor and clear message to say in order to see where we stand, we have to take a step back to see not just our present but our future as well.

Maybe it's time those distributions that don't want systemd need to start working together.

Systemd reminds me of the question, if everyone jumps off the bridge to their deaths should you jump as well? The answer clearly... Is NO.

On the switching to *BSD argument, if you feel the need to do so, start learning now. Don't forget there's also Solaris, Illumos, and other UNIX branded distributions also.

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RHEL7 will have systemd, and it's made my RHEL/CentOS/ScientificLinux-using sysadmin friends grumpy. They don't want to talk about it, and they don't want to think about it, because they don't want to be "angry all the time" (an exact quote from one of them).

It's made me think this might be an opportunity for a Slackware-for-the-Datacenter project. Eventually some of these professionals are going to look around for viable systemd-free alternatives for their business. I don't think there currently are any. It would be very nice to have one to offer them.

Offer Slackware you must young padawan! Then and only then a Jedi shall you be! Mmm!