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Old 06-01-2017, 03:11 AM   #46
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Ask and ye shall receive It is completely stock but I took it at face value that global was not wise and rc.pulseaudio shouldn't be employed and found no instructions to the contrary

Code:
 bash-4.3$ ls -l /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1171 Jun 22  2016 /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio
Hmm. OK, that's as it should be.

BTW, /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio itself tells you that you probably shouldn't use itself. That file also points you to a freedesktop wiki page about PulseAudio. From there, you can get to https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Sof.../PerfectSetup/, which I imagine you've already seen. If you haven't, maybe you should look at it.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 05:01 AM   #47
GazL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
That sounds great but my attempt following instructions on how to disable Pulseaudio did not work and I had to revert to have any sound at all on 14.2. So I have to ask are you doing this in 14.2 64 bit Multilib? If so could you possibly post or direct me to where I can find the information?
I'm using 64-current, no Multilib. Disabling pulse should be pretty straight forward:
Code:
--- etc/pulse/client.conf.slackware     2017-03-17 12:35:17.646458651 +0000
+++ etc/pulse/client.conf       2017-03-17 12:36:20.588906783 +0000
@@ -22,8 +22,8 @@
 ; default-server =
 ; default-dbus-server =
 
-autospawn = yes
-allow-autospawn-for-root = yes
+autospawn = no
+allow-autospawn-for-root = no
 ; daemon-binary = /usr/bin/pulseaudio
 ; extra-arguments = --log-target=syslog
And then comment out the two lines in /etc/asound.conf that redirect the default device to pulseaudio.

The only issue you might have is if your desktop environment's startup scripts are starting pulseaudio themselves. If you've disabled autospawn in client.conf and the pulseaudio daemon is still being started then it's most likely your desktop environment doing it (such as via /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop) or possibly another startup file. You'll need track down what is starting it and disable/remove these as well.


The freedesktop.org and arch linux wiki's are good sources of information (though the freedesktop one has an obvious bias when it comes to opinion on pulseaudio, but if you can mentally filter that out it's a good source of information non the less).


I've attached my sound related config changes in the form of a diff. Please note: they're not complete -- I haven't configured a source in pulse for one -- and they're tailored for my system and preferences, and as such I'm including them only as a reference example. Don't go applying them blindly to your system without understanding what each of the changes do or you'll likely just make matters worse. However they may give you a few pointers for things to google.
Attached Files
File Type: txt pulseaudio_config.diff.txt (3.3 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by GazL; 06-01-2017 at 05:17 AM.
 
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:24 AM   #48
elcore
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Select quotes from gentoo wiki:

Quote:
PulseAudio (or PA for short) is a sound server that provides a number of features on top of the low-level audio interface ALSA on Linux, such as:

Networking support (P2P and server mode);
Per-application volume controls;
Better cross-platform support;
Dynamic latency adjustment, which can be used to save power
Quote:
Using PulseAudio without udev/systemd is not recommended.
Quote:
PulseAudio’s module-udev-detect needs to access /sys
There's nothing useful there for me personally, all I see is a risk with no benefit.
I see why it's very useful for some but I prefer not to install that part.
The web browser that requires PA I will rather run in WINE or not at all.
 
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:23 AM   #49
jimX86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post

Code:
bash-4.3# 
ps aux | grep blue

root     30689  0.0  0.0  11672  2076 pts/3    S+   13:51   0:00 grep blue
So I have some other problem yet unresolved.
I just noticed that you ran that command as root. Are you also trying to run the equalizer from root? You'd have to run the equalizer as a regular user.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 05:14 PM   #50
enorbet
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My sincere and deep gratitude to you, GazL. With your help it looks like I can squeeze by another year or three without Pulseaudio as ALSA is alive and well now for me on 14.2 64bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL View Post
I'm using 64-current, no Multilib. Disabling pulse should be pretty straight forward:
It was with your simple solution! Upon initial installation of 14.2 64bit with just one or two must have additions, the first thing I did was google how to disable PA and use ALSA instead and it was a bloody mess - many errors and no sound anywhere on anything. Your 3 steps plus adding my own ~/.asoundrc is a success with no errors I didn't already have with PA and much works that didn't with PA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL View Post
If you've disabled autospawn in client.conf and the pulseaudio daemon is still being started then it's most likely your desktop environment doing it (such as via /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop) or possibly another startup file. You'll need track down what is starting it and disable/remove these as well.
I had zero issues here. PA daemon did not attempt to spawn. The few remaining issues I have, apps that launch but fail to make sound, may well have to do with 64bit vs/ 32 bit or possibly permissions more than pulse issues, but now I'm no longer in struggle-for-basics mode ie: nothing I did would launch the pulseaudio dbus module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL View Post
The freedesktop.org and arch linux wiki's are good sources of information (though the freedesktop one has an obvious bias when it comes to opinion on pulseaudio, but if you can mentally filter that out it's a good source of information non the less).
Although I am biased enough to steer clear of Freedesktop.org as much as possible I did seek info there. I routinely look at Arch's Wiki as it is a decent system that is exceptionally well documented and one only has to disregard the Pacman junk. Your similar usage feels right on the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL View Post
I've attached my sound related config changes in the form of a diff. Please note: they're not complete -- I haven't configured a source in pulse for one -- and they're tailored for my system and preferences, and as such I'm including them only as a reference example. Don't go applying them blindly to your system without understanding what each of the changes do or you'll likely just make matters worse. However they may give you a few pointers for things to google.
I will look that over now that I have my main "must haves" working for reference sake but I'm confidant I can solve remaining issues now that I'm no longer under the shadow of the Sword of Damocles.


FWIW here is the "scoreboard" so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by text
_______32bit 14.0_____________|________________64bit 14.2__________

aqualung(w/ Ladspa) - works -------|--------- aqualung (w/ Ladspa) -- works
Amarok ---------------- works --------|---------- Amarok ------------------ Fail (no sound)
Ardour (w/ Jack) ----- works --------|---------- Ardour (no Jack yet) - to be tested when Jack works but plays audio now!
Audacious ------------ works --------|---------- Audacious ------------- works
Hydrogen ------------ works --------|---------- Hydrogen -------------- not yet installed
KPlayer -------------- works --------|---------- KPlayer ---------------- Fail (no sound)
MPlayer ------------ works ---------|---------- MPlayer -------------- -- Fail (no sound)
SMPlayer ----------- works --------|--------- SMPlayer -------------- Install problems
VLC ----------------- works ---------|---------- VLC ------------------ Not Yet Installed
xine ----------------- works ---------|----------- xine ------------------ works
xmms --------------- works --------|--------- xmms ---------------- Fail (no sound)

BTW and FWIW Deparment
- I swear I'm not being patronizing (pun only slightly intended ) when I clarify that I didn't feel "muscled" by Patrick. I am potently aware that falls on Lennart's messianic shoulders. I am rather confidant that PA or something like it should and will come to Linux over time as de rigeur. I'm just happy to reduce the number of learning curves a little while longer. The adjustment to 64bit Multilib is substantial enough for me these days and far less pressing and difficult for what I expect is longer than the imminent feature/threat of PA. I really don't see that Patrick had much choice, just like the rest of us.... Lesser of Evils and all that
 
Old 06-01-2017, 05:16 PM   #51
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86 View Post
I just noticed that you ran that command as root. Are you also trying to run the equalizer from root? You'd have to run the equalizer as a regular user.
Thanks but that wasn't an oversight. I su'd to rule out any possible use. PA's EQ would launch but not work as I never got the dbus module to load.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 05:18 PM   #52
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Hmm. OK, that's as it should be.

BTW, /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio itself tells you that you probably shouldn't use itself. That file also points you to a freedesktop wiki page about PulseAudio. From there, you can get to https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Sof.../PerfectSetup/, which I imagine you've already seen. If you haven't, maybe you should look at it.
Thanks but yes, I do tend to look before I leap
 
Old 06-01-2017, 05:21 PM   #53
enorbet
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Well it may only be temporary but, thanks to GazL's excellent and simpler instructions I remain in the "Leave It" crowd so I am going to mark this thread as Solved. Thank you all for your contributions. It is what makes Linux, and especially IMHO, Slackware, so High Quality.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #54
jimX86
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Four pages into the thread and we never solved the original question. I think that speaks volumes about where we're at with audio right now. I don't think running an equalizer under pulseaudio is some exotic request that only an audiophile would want. I have absolutely no idea why it works for me and not enorbet, but by my definition this certainly doesn't qualify as pulseaudio "working just fine" out of the box.

I can't believe we're buying into this. Pulseaudio solves some problems at the expense of introducing others. How is that a good solution?
 
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:28 PM   #55
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86
Four pages into the thread and we never solved the original question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86
I just noticed that you ran that command as root. Are you also trying to run the equalizer from root? You'd have to run the equalizer as a regular user.
Thanks but that wasn't an oversight. I su'd to rule out any possible use. PA's EQ would launch but not work as I never got the dbus module to load.
Looks like some of his problems are self-inflicted.

He was told that PA runs per-user and that any processes running as root would disrupt things.

He was also presented with ways of getting Jack to collaborate with PulseAudio, but was instantly dismissive.

Oh well. You can lead a horse to water...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86
I can't believe we're buying into this.
Settle down.

As a long term Slacker, I can say that there haven't been any major changes in Slackware which were not necessary. When a change like this is made, it is done so in a measured and careful way.

And let's face it... something was necessary, because ALSA has never worked as well as the system it replaced.

Perhaps there could be more documentation around Slackware's implementation, but it appears to me that the people who aren't having problems are the ones using it as intended.

Last edited by rkelsen; 06-01-2017 at 08:31 PM.
 
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:39 PM   #56
jimX86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
Settle down.
C'mon now. I've been using Slackware for 20 years. I understand why the change was made. And it's easy enough to rip pulseaudio out altogether. (For right now.)

I still think the criticisms of pulseaudio are valid.
 
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:44 PM   #57
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86 View Post
I can't believe we're buying into this. Pulseaudio solves some problems at the expense of introducing others. How is that a good solution?
We also can't be pretending that everything with Alsa was perfect. I'd imagine most users who have an HDMI video card but wanted audio output through analog connections could vouch for that. Both programs have issues and neither provides a perfect solution. Pat and team just felt that breaking Bluetooth audio or keeping BlueZ at a lower version were not valid options. At least, those were the only reasons presented to the public for moving to pulseaudio. There could also be reasons that weren't presented in the ChangeLog.

I didn't have any issues with alsa once I stumbled through the initial setup of making sure the card I wanted was default. I haven't ran into any issues with pulseaudio, but then I am a pretty basic user of it. I have an HTPC that outputs via HDMI to my stereo. I was able to easily change between passthrough for surround sound or have kodi process it and mix it to the various channels. It has also worked without issue on my laptop.

But I imagine enorbet wouldn't mind if the conversation continued on his original points/questions... even though he has marked it as solved.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 08:48 PM   #58
jimX86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Pat and team just felt that breaking Bluetooth audio or keeping BlueZ at a lower version were not valid options.
I understand that. And I should have anticipated that my comment would be interpreted how it was by you and rkelsen. My mistake.

I just don't think we should blindly pretend that pulseaudio works fine and that anyone complaining about it is an audiophile who expects too much from their system.
 
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:37 PM   #59
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal
We also can't be pretending that everything with Alsa was perfect. I'd imagine most users who have an HDMI video card but wanted audio output through analog connections could vouch for that.
Count me among those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86
I just don't think we should blindly pretend that pulseaudio works fine and that anyone complaining about it is an audiophile who expects too much from their system.
As far as I can see, nobody has said either of those things in this thread.

It would help if they at least tried to co-operate with the new system, instead of trying to bypass or rip it out so that things could go back to the way they were.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 10:05 PM   #60
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86 View Post
I just don't think we should blindly pretend that pulseaudio works fine and that anyone complaining about it is an audiophile who expects too much from their system.
While there are a lot of "it just works" in relation to pulseaudio, I don't think any members of this forum think that people with issues are making them up or attempting to create the problems on purpose. Sure, a lot of issues have been from people sticking with their "tried and true" methods to get alsa to work, and that doesn't work for pulseaudio.

I think that everyone should be able to use their system as they please. If that entails removing pulseaudio, so be it. If someone can document all the packages that need recompiling and provide them to me, I'd be happy to host a slackpkg+ capable repo for them if there aren't other host options available.

Likewise, I think people should be able to run jack or an equalizer with pulseaudio and not have it break their system. I'm sure that many of us would be willing to help troubleshoot those issues. However, my audio is working fine on my computer and I don't have a need for jack or an equalizer, so I would be reliant on the issues reported here to use my limited knowledge to try and help solve the problem.

Unfortunately, it seems that the users who don't want pulse just because of its original author or they feel the scope of the software doesn't match what they think it should match have drowned out the voices of people who are truly having an issue with pulse. I'm all for trying to help people with pulse problems... if I have the knowledge to do so. Part of the problem is pulse is still pretty new to Slackware. Many of us long-time users have run into a lot of issues with software like alsa, so many of us know the "ins and outs" of the program and can usually find quick methods to fix user's problems. With pulse being so new to Slackware, many of us are just tipping our toes in the water with it. If we aren't running into issues with our setups, it's sometimes hard to diagnose the problems others are having... but we'll try our best

Long story short, Pat and team have mentioned that pulse is here to stay and will likely only get more ingrained into the system. People can continue to try and swim upstream and try and avoid using it... but eventually it probably won't be worth that effort (but then others are still working on FreeSlack, and in my very personal opinion, it just isn't worth the effort... but I do applaud those who feel it is a big enough issue to do something about it -- and on top of that, they provide that information for those who agree with them).
 
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