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Old 05-31-2017, 12:57 PM   #31
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimX86 View Post
I don't use bluetooth, so I had disabled the blueman applet. If I enable that as a startup application, then I can duplicate your problem.

I don't use Bluetooth either which is one reason why I resented the forced change in 14.2,

and....

Code:
bash-4.3# 
ps aux | grep blue

root     30689  0.0  0.0  11672  2076 pts/3    S+   13:51   0:00 grep blue
So I have some other problem yet unresolved.
 
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:13 PM   #32
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I've said my piece on pulseaudio before so I won't go over the pros and cons again, but what I've done here is configure pulseaudio so that it runs on top of the alsa dmix device. However, I've also disabled autostart of pulseaudio and all my programs fallback to using alsa directly. With this setup, if I need pulse it's just a start command away, but I generally have no need of it and so don't start it.
 
Old 05-31-2017, 02:31 PM   #33
askfor
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I, actually, don't want multiple streams to be played in the same time. I praise Vivaldi browser which has option to mute all but selected tab. And I don't want to run either PA, or Jack or Esound, or anything.
 
Old 05-31-2017, 02:36 PM   #34
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My "audiophile" skills are so strong, that usually I do not need something other than the built-in speakers from a LCD monitor, and them at a modest output level.

You know, those little craps which give to Arnold Schwarzenegger a voice of tenor...

Then, I for one, be pulse-audio or fire-squad-audio, I care next to zero point zero, until it gives me sound in Skype.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 05-31-2017 at 02:37 PM.
 
Old 05-31-2017, 02:38 PM   #35
PROBLEMCHYLD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
My "audiophile" skills are so strong, that usually I do not need something other than the built-in speakers from a LCD monitor, and them at a modest output level.

You know, those little craps which give to Arnold Schwarzenegger a voice of tenor...

Then, I for one, be pulse-audio or fire-squad-audio, I care next to zero point zero, until it gives me sound in Skype.
The sound in your Skype doesn't work?
 
Old 05-31-2017, 02:42 PM   #36
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PROBLEMCHYLD View Post
The sound in your Skype doesn't work?
Works fine, thanks you!

Of course, since pulse-audio addition.
 
Old 05-31-2017, 07:02 PM   #37
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
At this stage I am not sufficiently schooled in pulse to expound on anything more than in 32 bit 14.0 (ALSA only) EVERYTHING that has audio works whether alone or in multiple instances with no required action from me.
Isn't it funny how people can have different experiences? Personally, I always struggled to get MIDI working properly on an ALSA-only system. With Slackware 14.2, it is not difficult at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
In 14.2 64bit many applications either fail when others are active (or even inactive but still open as in "stopped playing" and minimized) or in web situations if I have another Tab not in current use but having an audio stream and player at all involved.
I suspect that some of your issues may be due to misunderstanding how it all works. With Slackware 14.2 there has been a fundamental change in the way sound works... So what you previously did may or may not continue to work.

My understanding of it (which may not be 100% correct) is as follows: With Slackware 14.2, any sound-related services are supposed to be run at user level, not system-wide. This way, PulseAudio (which runs per-user) will have the correct permission to capture & mix the output of those services.

Taking my MIDI example from above, running Timidity++ as root will give that process exclusive access to the sound hardware (through ALSA) and will effectively block user-level services (i.e: PulseAudio) from working properly...

However, if I run Timidity++ as a user, then PulseAudio captures the output and can mix it with sound from other user-level processes. IME, this now (finally!) works better than it has in every version of Slackware since ALSA came along... (to digress: prior to that we had OSS, which was superior to ALSA in every respect, but was removed from the kernel due to licensing issues).

Edit: This page has some (ignoring the parts which are specific to Fedora) good information on how to "integrate" Jack: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US...with_JACK.html

The Jack website also has some alternate options: http://jackaudio.org/faq/pulseaudio_and_jack.html

Last edited by rkelsen; 05-31-2017 at 07:36 PM.
 
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:12 PM   #38
Pixxt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
Isn't it funny how people can have different experiences? Personally, I always struggled to get MIDI working properly on an ALSA-only system. With Slackware 14.2, it is not difficult at all.

(to digress: prior to that we had OSS, which was superior to ALSA in every respect, but was removed from the kernel due to licensing issues).

Just to nikpick OSS was removed/deprecated because it was badly outdated code that could not work well in modern systems and ALSA was superior to the OSS that was in the kernel, please do not confuse OSSv4 with the crap OSS that was in the kernel. So no OSS was not superior to ALSA on any technical terms at the time.
 
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:17 PM   #39
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL View Post
I've said my piece on pulseaudio before so I won't go over the pros and cons again, but what I've done here is configure pulseaudio so that it runs on top of the alsa dmix device. However, I've also disabled autostart of pulseaudio and all my programs fallback to using alsa directly. With this setup, if I need pulse it's just a start command away, but I generally have no need of it and so don't start it.
That sounds great but my attempt following instructions on how to disable Pulseaudio did not work and I had to revert to have any sound at all on 14.2. So I have to ask are you doing this in 14.2 64 bit Multilib? If so could you possibly post or direct me to where I can find the information?
 
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:34 PM   #40
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
Isn't it funny how people can have different experiences? Personally, I always struggled to get MIDI working properly on an ALSA-only system. With Slackware 14.2, it is not difficult at all.

I suspect that some of your issues may be due to misunderstanding how it all works. With Slackware 14.2 there has been a fundamental change in the way sound works... So what you previously did may or may not continue to work.

My understanding of it (which may not be 100% correct) is as follows: With Slackware 14.2, any sound-related services are supposed to be run at user level, not system-wide. This way, PulseAudio (which runs per-user) will have the correct permission to capture & mix the output of those services.

Taking my MIDI example from above, running Timidity++ as root will give that process exclusive access to the sound hardware (through ALSA) and will effectively block user-level services (i.e: PulseAudio) from working properly...

However, if I run Timidity++ as a user, then PulseAudio captures the output and can mix it with sound from other user-level processes. IME, this now (finally!) works better than it has in every version of Slackware since ALSA came along... (to digress: prior to that we had OSS, which was superior to ALSA in every respect, but was removed from the kernel due to licensing issues).

Edit: This page has some (ignoring the parts which are specific to Fedora) good information on how to "integrate" Jack: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US...with_JACK.html

The Jack website also has some alternate options: http://jackaudio.org/faq/pulseaudio_and_jack.html
Of course much of my problem is lack of understanding how pulseaudio works. This is true for two reasons. One, I have only recently been muscled into having to use it and essentially waste the learning curve effort that gave me a perfectly working, great sounding system with ALSA. The second reason is ALSA instructions are easy to understand while pulseaudio help tends to be anachronistic, assuming you already know things that if you did you wouldn't need help in the first place. I also find the error messages less than helpful but assume optimistically that will improve as I struggle to learn more.

OTOH it does help me some that you explained it all runs at user level. I'm not certain I totally get that yet since if I run "pulseaudio -D" as user it errors out. If I run it as root I imagine it has succeeded since after a short time my prompt returns but I get no message for success so I have no idea if it in fact succeeded. If I run " pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol" I then get a message that "Failure: Module initialization failed" but no clue as to how or why. This happens whether done as user or root and it ignores any attempt to make it Verbose.

As for Jack I already mentioned that I am aware that a version is available for compatibility with pulseaudio, but as of now it lacks some features I'd really like to keep as I've found them useful on my ALSA-only 32bit 14.0 system. I wish I could glean more from your MIDI examples but I don't use MIDI much but as I recall midi-based apps like Hydrogen work fine on my ALSA only system. I'll save any MIDI concerns for later since I use it so little.

Thank you for your input though.
 
Old 05-31-2017, 08:43 PM   #41
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixxt View Post
Just to nikpick OSS was removed/deprecated because it was badly outdated code that could not work well in modern systems and ALSA was superior to the OSS that was in the kernel, please do not confuse OSSv4 with the crap OSS that was in the kernel. So no OSS was not superior to ALSA on any technical terms at the time.
Hey man, I'm simply reporting my observations at the time (2003 to 2004-ish):

- With OSS I could record audio and multitask... If I tried the same while recording with ALSA, it meant that the recording would be full of stuttering and distortion. Even just moving the mouse would cause issues. I'd have to hit record and literally step away from the box...

- Setting up OSS was as simple as 'modprobe driver.' By comparison, ALSA's setup was a horrible mess.

- ALSA didn't handle mixing well and didn't play nicely with aRTs or MIDI.

- OSS sounded better. It seemed to have much better support for the emu10k1 chip than ALSA did.

Yes, these issues have been (mostly) resolved with time... but these were my findings back then.
 
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:49 PM   #42
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Of course much of my problem is lack of understanding how pulseaudio works. This is true for two reasons. One, I have only recently been muscled into having to use it and essentially waste the learning curve effort that gave me a perfectly working, great sounding system with ALSA. The second reason is ALSA instructions are easy to understand while pulseaudio help tends to be anachronistic, assuming you already know things that if you did you wouldn't need help in the first place. I also find the error messages less than helpful but assume optimistically that will improve as I struggle to learn more.

OTOH it does help me some that you explained it all runs at user level. I'm not certain I totally get that yet since if I run "pulseaudio -D" as user it errors out. If I run it as root I imagine it has succeeded since after a short time my prompt returns but I get no message for success so I have no idea if it in fact succeeded. If I run " pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol" I then get a message that "Failure: Module initialization failed" but no clue as to how or why. This happens whether done as user or root and it ignores any attempt to make it Verbose.

As for Jack I already mentioned that I am aware that a version is available for compatibility with pulseaudio, but as of now it lacks some features I'd really like to keep as I've found them useful on my ALSA-only 32bit 14.0 system. I wish I could glean more from your MIDI examples but I don't use MIDI much but as I recall midi-based apps like Hydrogen work fine on my ALSA only system. I'll save any MIDI concerns for later since I use it so little.

Thank you for your input though.
If I may ask, what is the output of
Code:
ls -l /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio
?
 
Old 05-31-2017, 09:09 PM   #43
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
One, I have only recently been muscled into having to use it and essentially waste the learning curve effort that gave me a perfectly working, great sounding system with ALSA.
Funnily enough, these were my exact feelings when the change from OSS to ALSA happened.

It's progress. Patrick has said that it's the way forward, and that there is no going back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
The second reason is ALSA instructions are easy to understand while pulseaudio help tends to be anachronistic, assuming you already know things that if you did you wouldn't need help in the first place.
Patrick, I know you're reading this thread... (Thanks! ) ... Could we please have more information about PulseAudio in the Slackware docs? Eg: A brief description of Slackware's implementation of PulseAudio and how to use it properly.

Last edited by rkelsen; 05-31-2017 at 09:58 PM.
 
Old 05-31-2017, 10:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
That sounds great but my attempt following instructions on how to disable Pulseaudio did not work and I had to revert to have any sound at all on 14.2.
I followed instructions on disabling pulseaudio as well. But in all attempts, pulseaudio remained active interfering with control of the device, but I always had sound (except when it auto-muted for no reason, but that was easy to recognize).

So I considering the available instruction on disabling pulseaudio to not work either. But removing pulseaudio was easy enough for me. I'm not suggesting to change your course of action. All I'm pointing out here is that we started the same way, but went completely different ways.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 12:16 AM   #45
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
If I may ask, what is the output of
Code:
ls -l /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio
?
Ask and ye shall receive It is completely stock but I took it at face value that global was not wise and rc.pulseaudio shouldn't be employed and found no instructions to the contrary

Code:
 bash-4.3$ ls -l /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1171 Jun 22  2016 /etc/rc.d/rc.pulseaudio
 
  


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