[SOLVED] Pulseaudio - Love It or Leave it?

bassmadrigal · 05-30-2017, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STDOUBT

I wish this old saw would die. It hurts more each time I see it.
Before pa existed I had multiple audio streams with no tweaking OOTB with ALSA. Anecdotal, so be it.

I think the issue here is there is a lot of sites out there that override the dmix settings when they try and change the default output of alsa from hdmi to analog. Many of those sites would have something like:

Code:

  pcm.!default {
    type hw
    card 1
    device 0
    }
  ctl.!default {
    type hw
    card 1
    }

And this would override the default dmix settings and can prevent multiple streams on many cards. What should've been used was something like:

Code:

  defaults.pcm.card 1
  defaults.pcm.device 0
  defaults.ctl.card 1

@enorbet, my offer still does stand on providing hosting for any packages. I don't know if this thread will lead to a pulse-free system, as previous threads have attempted, or just some companion apps to help make it easier to use pulse. Either way, if some slackpkg+ compatible packages are needing/wanting to be hosted, I can do that.

jimX86 · 05-30-2017, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

So first thing here is I am setting out to build the following two packages from source and see about providing a Slackbuild.

1) Puseaudio-alsa

2) Pulseaudio-equalizer

From looking at the ArchLinux package, I think pulseaudio-alsa just provides a different asound.conf. Is that correct?

The equalizer should already be installed at /usr/bin/qpaeq.

You might have to load the following pulseaudio modules, although I only needed the second item (for dbus).

Code:

pactl load-module module-equalizer-sink
pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol

You may want to load them automatically in /etc/pulse/default.pa.

Then start the equalizer. You'll probably also need to run pavucontrol the first time you run an application. On the playback tab, change it to "FFT based equalizer".

frankbell · 05-30-2017, 10:15 PM

Klaatu addressed Pulse and audio in a recent podcast. I mention that because, in it, he discussed some of the differences between ALSA and Pulse, which can be summed up in the statement (I'm grossly oversimplifying here) that Pulse is a mixer and ALSA is a volume control.

You can find the podcast here: http://gnuworldorder.info/. Look for episode 11x7, 2017-04-24T16:51:10Z.

Whether you are pro- or anti-Pulse, I think you may find it informative.

I don't really have a pro- or anti-Pulse position. I first encountered Pulse in Ubuntu several years ago; it came on a Ubuntu netbook I purchased from Dell. Pulse has never given me any problems and, in my experience, works just fine in Slackware, but I wasn't using it when it was brand spanking new.

Just a thought.

Afterthought:

I commend Klaatu's podcasts to your attention. No other single individual has taught me as much about Linux as he.

Richard Cranium · 05-30-2017, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STDOUBT

I wish this old saw would die. It hurts more each time I see it.
Before pa existed I had multiple audio streams with no tweaking OOTB with ALSA. Anecdotal, so be it.

No tweaking?

You were able to plug in different headphones (say one in the audio ports and then another one via USB) and you didn't have to touch a single configuration file?

I find that difficult to believe. I'm willing to be convinced, although this thread may not be the place for that.

rkelsen · 05-30-2017, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

My main needs are to overcome the issue in which apps that don't or won't use pulse fall back on alsa and all the pulse apps then fail. This means that even if I have one flash or HTML5 web app up, the next one may or may not work and sometimes even base non-net apps fail as well.

These problems appear to have not been sufficiently answered. Your experience does not match mine. Like frankbell, I've not had any problems using it under Slackware. Could we have more specific details about your use case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbell

... Pulse is a mixer and ALSA is a volume control.

My experience is that Pulse & ALSA together work better than ALSA on it's own.

Richard Cranium · 05-30-2017, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelsen

These problems appear to have not been sufficiently answered. Your experience does not match mine. Like frankbell, I've not had any problems using it under Slackware. Could we have more specific details about your use case?

From what I can tell, those who *really* care about audio mixing love ALSA and dislike Pulse. They normally have special hardware that ALSA handles well but Pulse doesn't. They can hear the difference between the two sound systems.

None of the above is meant to be sarcastic; from what I see, those with high-end, high-quality audio cards and do audio work hate Pulse with a passion. I've got tinnitus in one ear, so I'm scarcely the one to push for audio quality or to comment on the sound quality differences between the two.

ppr:kut · 05-31-2017, 01:04 AM

For those really interested in pro-audio or higher fidelity of sound, it would probably make sense to look at the git version of pulseaudio. The changelog for the next version lists several improvements for items I heard people complain about here, most notably

Quote:

- Upmixing can now be disabled without bad side effects
- Avoid having unavailable sinks or sources as the default
- Option to avoid resampling more often
- Better latency control in module-loopback

55020 · 05-31-2017, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Cranium

They can hear the difference between the two sound systems.

In double blind tests?

https://twitter.com/tumult/status/855082563395768321

solarfields · 05-31-2017, 07:19 AM

i thought audiophiles only considered jack audio connection kit :P

enorbet · 05-31-2017, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal

@enorbet, my offer still does stand on providing hosting for any packages. I don't know if this thread will lead to a pulse-free system, as previous threads have attempted, or just some companion apps to help make it easier to use pulse. Either way, if some slackpkg+ compatible packages are needing/wanting to be hosted, I can do that.

Thanks again bassmadrigal and to be clear I have at least temporarily given up trying to remove pulse and instead am attempting to make it just play nicer with ALSA. I still wish I didn't have to as ALSA does everything I need exactly as I desire on my 14.0 32 bit system. I just recognize that before too long I will be forced to choose between trying toi keep an older system working and adapting to at least a modicum of what is rather clearly The Future.

For comparison I still prefer and buy Stick Shift cars but that is only possible because enough people also do, that they are still, at least for now, available. At one time I went to great lengths to mod a Ford van to accept a particular engine and transmission even after being told by Ford "that's not possible" but alas I am no longer that young and feisty

and choose my battles much more carefully.

enorbet · 05-31-2017, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimX86

From looking at the ArchLinux package, I think pulseaudio-alsa just provides a different asound.conf. Is that correct?

The equalizer should already be installed at /usr/bin/qpaeq.

You might have to load the following pulseaudio modules, although I only needed the second item (for dbus).

Code:

pactl load-module module-equalizer-sink
pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol

You may want to load them automatically in /etc/pulse/default.pa.

Then start the equalizer. You'll probably also need to run pavucontrol the first time you run an application. On the playback tab, change it to "FFT based equalizer".

Thank you for this. Naturally I ran into the dbus issue right away and don't yet know enough about pulse mechanics to solve errors I got. I will try this tonight and see if that just does it. If not I will post my errors. Thanks again.

EDIT: Ok already bumping into errors possibly involved in auto Bluetooth code which I am investigating but here's a start

Code:

bash-4.3$ pactl load-module module-equalizer-sink
28

bash-4.3$ pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol
Failure: Module initialization failed

EDIT 2 : Why I suspect Bluetooth issues

as User

Code:

pkill pulseaudio; pulseaudio
pkill: killing pid 14189 failed: Operation not permitted
W: [pulseaudio] sink.c: Default and alternate sample rates are the same.
W: [pulseaudio] source.c: Default and alternate sample rates are the same.
W: [pulseaudio] source.c: Default and alternate sample rates are the same.
E: [pulseaudio] bluez5-util.c: GetManagedObjects() failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files

as root

Code:

bash-4.3# pkill pulseaudio; pulseaudio
W: [pulseaudio] sink.c: Default and alternate sample rates are the same.
W: [pulseaudio] source.c: Default and alternate sample rates are the same.
W: [pulseaudio] source.c: Default and alternate sample rates are the same.
W: [pulseaudio] server-lookup.c: Unable to contact D-Bus: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
W: [pulseaudio] main.c: Unable to contact D-Bus: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
E: [pulseaudio] bluez5-util.c: GetManagedObjects() failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files

enorbet · 05-31-2017, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarfields

i thought audiophiles only considered jack audio connection kit :P

I can't speak for all audiophiles but for me Jack is simply essential. There does exist a version of Jack for PulseAudio but it lacks a few features I require. If I was still heavily involved in professional recording I would simply build a dedicated machine but these days I mostly record a few demos and revive old tapes while committing to digital form. For now the main thing I need most is to have an assignable EQ so that at the very least I can switch either quickly or automatically by assignment from Music to Voice. There are some LADSPA and LV2 plugins that would be useful as well but that's less pressing and hopefully just getting EQ will build toward that.

enorbet · 05-31-2017, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelsen

These problems appear to have not been sufficiently answered. Your experience does not match mine. Like frankbell, I've not had any problems using it under Slackware. Could we have more specific details about your use case?

My experience is that Pulse & ALSA together work better than ALSA on it's own.

At this stage I am not sufficiently schooled in pulse to expound on anything more than in 32 bit 14.0 (ALSA only) EVERYTHING that has audio works whether alone or in multiple instances with no required action from me. Additionally I can assign LDAP plugins to some types of applications and exclude others so I al;ways get what I desire and expect.

In 14.2 64bit many applications either fail when others are active (or even inactive but still open as in "stopped playing" and minimized) or in web situations if I have another Tab not in current use but having an audio stream and player at all involved.

I'm sorry I can't yet be more specific than that but I hope to be able to soon.

enorbet · 05-31-2017, 11:21 AM

GENERAL NOTICE :

though I've stated that as of yet this thread has not devolved into a simple rant fest

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypicalTrolls

Ford forever!Chevy sux!

Your Mom you Moron, Chevy rulz!

Anecdotal experiences are for now being allowed because I think it is an important side issue that people see what others experience both good and bad.

HOWEVER I will not allow this to degenerate into the usual and neverending battle between "audiophiles" and self-styled "sensible people". Hearing is subjective and also subject to training or lack of it. There can be no resolution to such arguments so they will not be allowed in this thread. If you want more of that inane crap, start your own thread. Those that wish to actually teach or learn something viable are warmly welcome.

jimX86 · 05-31-2017, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

Ok already bumping into errors possibly involved in auto Bluetooth code which I am investigating but here's a start

I don't use bluetooth, so I had disabled the blueman applet. If I enable that as a startup application, then I can duplicate your problem.