Gargamel, I like the way you think. I can only wonder how many of the young whipper-snappers running around here would know FORTRAN if they tripped over it.....


As for the JRE vs JSDK debate....I avoid Java like the plague, so it doesn't affect my day to day activities either way. There have been a few good points made, however. I really do enjoy the fact that I can install a working system with only 1 cd (now that I've dumped KDE). Even, then, I find myself omitting/removing quite a few packages.

The idea of multiple Slackware distro's customized to home users, servers, developers, etc. is an interesting one, but I'd be willing to bet that such a task is much too large for Pat to handle himself. That being said, I like the idea that there is (basically) one guy who makes sure that the product which goes out the door is stable, secure and fully operational. I've never used Debian (so please don't attack me), but I can't imagine that changing leaders every year is good for the overall direction of the project. To take that argument one step further, just look at the success Ubuntu is having. My impression of Ubuntu is that they are doing all the things that Debian does, but faster (and doing so, making the users happy).

In light of that situation, I would much rather have Pat make the decisions for Slackware and if it happens that I have to go beyond him for apps I want, then so be it.

At the end of the day, you can't argue with the fact that Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distro and Pat has been in charge from day one.

Does that mean gnome is gone for good? :D

Well, a sad thing is that there's no comparable distro out here. Like most of us (I suppose), I regularily check out other distros. But I keep finding out that nothing compares to Slackware.

I believe it's sad because it means that in this so-called "world of choices", you really cannot chose...

Stop whining and read the release notes
 

Has anyone read the Release notes for 10.1?

Here's a snip


>---------------------------------------------------------------------<
Slackware's default install now includes Sun's Java(TM) 2 Runtime
Environment (JRE) rather than the full Java Software Development Kit.
This is primarily due to the ever-growing size of the full Java SDK;
it is now too large to fit on either of the first two (install) ISO
images. A standard replicated disc has a factory limit of 670MB, and
there just aren't enough bits to include the full Java(TM) 2 SDK
there. My apologies if you are inconvenienced by this change.
Luckily, after working out the breakdown of the third ISO image it
was discovered that there was just barely enough room to include the
J2SDK in the /extra directory there. The Java(TM) SDK is not likely
to fit on the next release of Slackware (11) though, so in the future
those of you who require the full Java Software Development Kit will
need to download it from java.sun.com. I will continue to include
the scripts to convert the .bin file to a .tgz, so this shouldn't
present too much difficulty.
>------------------------------------------------------------------<

OK? You'll find the SDK in the Extra directory of your Slackware CD.

Re: Stop whining and read the release notes
 

Have you read this thread?

Keep up. Who in the last several posts has been 'whining', anyway?

Good work digi, quite to the point :D

Just to quote from the initial message


>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
So what is next? GIMP is very large. Maybe it will be purged? How about emacs or vi? No one needs both!
Where is it written that Slack can't be more than 2 CDs... or 10 CDs. The whole philosophy of Slack is that you do what's "right" not just "what fits."
Please, Pat, put back the Java SDK and take out something else if you must.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<

My point was that the SDK is till right there in Slack 10.1 - and the above sounds like whining, or trolling, to me.

Apologies
 

Tchah - sorry Digiot, I clearly didn't read the thread properly (having read it again) - you at least have read the changelog! Apologies for being so trigger-happy.

Well, you might want to read this:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html

Not to say that Java programmers are Quiche eaters... ;-)

In fact I learned Pascal, which I hated, then C which I hated even more, then 6502 assembly, which was ok, went on to ARM assembly language on an Acorn Archimedes, which I liked, was forced to learn, but luckily not to use C++, with all it's double-plus brain damaged memory leaks, switched to FORTRAN for performance reasons (nothing computes faster, not even hand-optimised C, provided you have a native FORTRAN compiler at your finger tips, and C++ is almost as sluggish as Java when it comes to real computing), struggled with some LISP derivative, which made me recurse to Smalltalk, which is still the only full-scale OO language I like, learned to make a living off Java software engineering, and now I am seeking for a project that allows me to learn Ruby or Groovy or so, because these languages seem to be a handy as Perl, as readable as Basic, as structured as Pascal and as properly OO as Smalltalk, and they can be run in a Java VM, which, despite of all the intrinsic problems, is a much more useful invention from Sun than Solaris and SPARC.

To summarize: Real programmers just don't use Pascal. ;-)

gargamel

Slackware is all about supplying the best mix of unadulterated software to give a working system. It doesn't include OpenOffice or Scribus. KDE comes with it's own office tools. I use Kpackage to pick and choose which applications/tools I wish to include on my system for instance I uninstall Apache because I will never user it, well not for the time being anyway.

I never use Alsa as supplied by Pat, I always download from the ALSA site and compile. OpenOffice I get from the OpenOffice site. ClamAV I get from LinuxPackages. Scribus, even though it's available from LinuxPackages, I always download from a mirror and compile the latest version.

I choose from Slackware or the appropriate mirror site for the tool/application or LinuxPackages. Whichever at the time works best. After all it's about choice.

As long as you stick to one desktop you can't go far wrong. I use KDE so I know that I can't use Evolution without jumping through a few hoops. It's my choice!

I develop Java apps for a living, so I *DO* use the Java SDK.

Those of us who develop Java apps for a living usually prefer that *NO* Java SDK be included with the operating system, so Patrick actually made my life slightly easier by not including it. Now, when I install Slackware, I don't have to go to the trouble of removing it from the list of packages to be installed.

We Java developers usually want to install the SDK ourselves because we usually want to have a specific version of the Java SDK, which is usually not the version that comes with Slackware. Slackware tends to include the latest version of the Java SDK, and, due to poor quality control at Sun, the latest version is often not the best version. (Although, I must say, with the 1.5 version, Sun seems to be much better at QC.)

Furthermore, once we start a project, we usually stick with the same version of the SDK until the project ends (unless there is a compelling reason to upgrade). A typical project could take two years, and we don't want our SDK updated whenever we upgrade our OS.

As for running Java applications or supporting a Java plug-in, other posters to this thread have already pointed out that the JRE, which is included, should work fine.

I think at the core of all this is the lack of a centralised ("official" ) slackware user-list, where slackware users can express what they would like and what they would like to see dropped. There is no forum that is representative of slacker's preferences.

I have the best of both worlds.

I don't need Java installed with the system.
I don't need to download it either.

My tech magazine I subscribe to gives away Java SDK in their CDs for Win and Lin every few months! :D

So I don't need to download if I want it :)