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Old 05-24-2024, 07:29 PM   #1
arfon
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Opinions Please: Slackware+Virtualbox or Proxmox


I just installed Proxmox on a box and I have two concerns-

1) Years ago when I ran Proxmox, they turned off the free/hobby version so I went to Citrix. Citrix then did the same thing.
2) It's been so long that the re-learning curve is pretty steep.


I'm not running anything super hardware intensive but, I also don't want a dog-slow VMs. I know Proxmox is KVM on Debian but everything tells me that KVM is faster then VirtualBox.

Should I stick with Proxmox or should I throw on Slackware and run VirtualBox?

Opinions?
 
Old 05-24-2024, 08:03 PM   #2
frankbell
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I think the key question is how much RAM you have available to allocate to the VM.

I have not use Proxmox, but I've used VB for years and found it quite acceptable. I commonly allocate 4GB RAM to a VM and seldom run more than two at a time (that is, I may be using one and updating another).

Just my two cents.
 
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Old 05-24-2024, 08:14 PM   #3
wpeckham
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#1 any container system is going to have less overhead than any full virtualization solution. This gives it closer to native iron performance.

#2 virtualbox does not have impressive performance for a full virtualization solution, but CAN be easier to implement. I prefer QEMU with Virtual Machine Manager, but that is largely a matter of taste and style.

#3 depending upon the urgency, using the tools you are more familiar with (and more able to troubleshoot) might outweigh factors of performance.
 
Old 05-24-2024, 08:17 PM   #4
Daedra
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I say use Proxmox, the learning curve is really not bad at all. I have two spare computers running in a proxmox cluster. I got two different Slackware VM's on that cluster I use for testing and as part of my icecream distributed compile nodes. I also run some lxc containers for things like pihole and for testing Ansible playbooks. However I also use virt-mananger as an alternative to Virtualbox on my main machine. Virt-Manager makes using QEMU basically idiot proof, you should try it out, its far superior to Virtualbox as far as raw speed goes since you are using KVM, however you won't get 3d acceleration and some of the convenience features you get with Virtualbox. Easiest way to install virt-manager is to create an sbopkg queue file with the following packages.

Code:
osinfo-db-tools
osinfo-db
libosinfo
yajl
numactl
libvirt
libvirt-glib
libvirt-python
gtk-vnc
spice-protocol
spice
usbredir
spice-gtk
device-tree-compiler
libnfs
snappy
vde2
virglrenderer
libslirp
qemu
virt-manager
save this file in /var/lib/sbopkg/queues/virt.sqg. Then launch sbopkg and load the queue and let it build all the packages. Once it is finished add these lines to your /etc/rc.d/rc.local

Code:
# Start libvirt:
if [ -x /etc/rc.d/rc.libvirt ]; then
  /etc/rc.d/rc.libvirt start
fi
now you can reboot or start libvirt with

Code:
/etc/rc.d/rc.libvirt start
Going this route gives you both options, you can run proxmox on your extra machine. And you can have a much faster alternative to Virtualbox on your main computer. Plus virt-manager and Virtualbox can coexist since virt-manager is basically just a GUI for QEMU/KVM, they just can't be running at the same time AFAIK.

Last edited by Daedra; 05-24-2024 at 08:25 PM.
 
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Old 05-24-2024, 11:56 PM   #5
arfon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I think the key question is how much RAM you have available to allocate to the VM.
I've got 32GB in that machine... 4-5GB is what I usually allocate the VMs. I only use this machine as sandboxes to try stuff out so, they don't need much performance.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
#1 any container system is going to have less overhead than any full virtualization solution. This gives it closer to native iron performance.
I had not thought of that but, it makes sense. I guess I need to play with some containers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
I say use Proxmox, the learning curve is really not bad at all. I have two spare computers running in a proxmox cluster.
I think you're right, I learned it once, I should do it again because when I got it all going, it was pretty nice.


Thanks all for the input.
 
Old 05-26-2024, 03:08 PM   #6
rkelsen
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Proxmox and VirtualBox are different things.

Your use case needs to be considered, or at least your desired result.
 
Old 05-27-2024, 07:32 AM   #7
walecha
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If you don't need some hardware pass-through (eg. gpu pass-through), then you can use qemu directly without using libvirt. I'm using it in my local pc. I'm only using libvirt on remote hypervisor or if I need some fancy hardware pass-through because defining pci/pcie address for the vfio interface in qemu is a little bit complicated

I'm using a script like this to run my ordinary vm if needed:
Code:
qemu-system-x86_64 \
-enable-kvm \
-name guest=GUEST_OS_NAME \
-machine type=q35,accel=kvm \
-m 2G \
-smp 2,sockets=1,dies=1,cores=2,threads=1 \
-cpu host \
-usb -device usb-ehci,id=ehci \
-net nic,macaddr=52:54:00:XX:YY:ZZ,model=virtio-net-pci \
-net user,hostfwd=tcp::5555-:22 \
-monitor stdio \
-rtc base=utc,driftfix=slew \
-global kvm-pit.lost_tick_policy=delay \
-device virtio-rng-pci,id=rng0 \
-device intel-hda -device hda-duplex \
-boot menu=off \
-display gtk,gl=on \
-vga qxl \
-drive file=GUEST_OS_DISK.qcow2,if=virtio,index=0,media=disk,cache=none,aio=io_uring,discard=unmap \
>/dev/null
 
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Old 05-28-2024, 01:53 PM   #8
yvesjv
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How do you assign IPs to your virtuals?
And what do you use to simulate a network switch?
 
Old 05-28-2024, 08:22 PM   #9
walecha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesjv View Post
How do you assign IPs to your virtuals?
And what do you use to simulate a network switch?
I think most of hypervisors already has internal dhcp server (kind of) and network switching capabilities. Libvirt for example use dnsmasq to serve as dhcp server for the vm:
Code:
~# ps -ef | grep libvirt | grep dnsmasq
nobody     3687      1  0 Apr13 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/dnsmasq --conf-file=/var/lib/libvirt/dnsmasq/LAN-192.168.25.0-27.conf --leasefile-ro --dhcp-script=/usr/libexec/libvirt_leaseshelper
 
Old 05-28-2024, 08:35 PM   #10
wpeckham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesjv View Post
How do you assign IPs to your virtuals?
And what do you use to simulate a network switch?
Personally, I always start by reading the documentation.
 
Old 05-29-2024, 04:47 AM   #11
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesjv View Post
How do you assign IPs to your virtuals?
And what do you use to simulate a network switch?
I use bridge mode networking, so that they get an IP from my main router. No need to emulate anything, and they run as if they're just another machine on my LAN.
 
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Old 05-29-2024, 11:32 AM   #12
Daedra
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I am currently using the SR-IOV feature of my intel i350 NIC. Some server grade intel network cards allow you to "split" the one physical card into multiple "virtual functions" that can be passed directly to the virtual machines. The virtual machine sees this as an actual physical network card and these virtual function cards run at basically native performance of the host card. This is not something you need on a desktop machine, but its a nifty little feature of higher end network cards that is nice to have.
 
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Old 06-07-2024, 12:25 AM   #13
yvesjv
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Thanks guys.
I went the way of vde2 with bridge mode.
Was wondering if there was more options.

Wouldn't mind borrowing Daedra SR-IOV NIC for 'temporary' testing
 
Old 06-07-2024, 12:41 AM   #14
Daedra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesjv View Post
Thanks guys.
I went the way of vde2 with bridge mode.
Was wondering if there was more options.

Wouldn't mind borrowing Daedra SR-IOV NIC for 'temporary' testing
Most of the NIC's that support SRIOV are X4 or X8 slot cards, which you won't find on most desktop motherboards. However there are third party ones that use the I350AM2 chipset that are X1, the I350 series support 7 virtual functions per port. Aliexpress sells them. However your motherboard has to support IOMMU and SRIOV in order to use this feature.

Last edited by Daedra; 06-07-2024 at 12:45 AM.
 
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Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM   #15
yvesjv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
I use bridge mode networking, so that they get an IP from my main router. No need to emulate anything, and they run as if they're just another machine on my LAN.
And I did an apt-get dist-upgrade on my devuan install to get it to Daedalus.
On reboot seeing this error:
vde_switch[1773]: send_tap port 1: Input/output error

Swapped to bridge networking and just worked.
# brctl show br0
bridge name bridge id STP enabled interfaces
br0 8000.7c8bca03f877 no eth0
vnet3

Last edited by yvesjv; Yesterday at 04:46 PM.
 
  


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