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Old 04-14-2011, 04:47 PM   #46
Woodsman
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Quote:
Woodsman, the 2.0 re-write was initiated through Usenet group alt.os.linux.slackware several years ago. I do not remember ever having seen you contribute there.
I'm aware of alt.os.linux.slackware. Yes, most news groups are open to anybody who wants to join, but I do not consider asking for help through that list a public request. Many people today are unfamiliar with news groups. Asking here at LQ would be a public request. I never participated for the same reasons onebuck stopped participating: The non-productive nature of the discussions and the generally holier-than-thou RTFM attitude of many of the participants. Once upon a time I regularly browsed the archives of the list through the linuxpackages forum. I remember the spitting contest between Alan and whomever Realto Margarino might be. Possibly the spitting contest continues, but I stopped browsing that list long ago.

Quote:
And the URL to the git repository is in plain sight on the front page of http://slackbook.org/
Fair enough. Thank you. Yet as this discussion is about the new version, I was looking for the link at that site, not the old site.

Quote:
then they realize that writing documentation is boring. Mind blowingly boring.
Who is they? Your statement implies that writing is boring to you. I have been working in the technical writing profession for two decades. I don't find the profession boring. My own web site is filled with hundreds of how-tos and journal entries. Such an effort is not the result of writing being boring. Hint: stop writing "documentation" and instead share knowledge and experiences. Changes the perspective.
 
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:11 PM   #47
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
I'm aware of alt.os.linux.slackware. Yes, most news groups are open to anybody who wants to join, but I do not consider asking for help through that list a public request. Many people today are unfamiliar with news groups. Asking here at LQ would be a public request
The version 2.0 of the Slack Book was under discussion 8 years ago. At that time there were many posts about the book, and some of those were bundled in these threads:
https://groups.google.com/group/alt....00d04e3cecf98/
https://groups.google.com/group/alt....0465517fa4ab9d

If that is not a public discussion than I don't know what is. If you and your target audience have an issue with the concept of Usenet, then still the above thread still leads to the writing of Slack Book v2.0.

Quote:
Yet as this discussion is about the new version, I was looking for the link at that site, not the old site.
What old site? What new site? It has always been http://slackbook.org/ you know, and Alan posted the location a few posts up too.

Quote:
Who is they? Your statement implies that writing is boring to you.
Then you are completely off track. Alan explained that in the end, he did a lot of the work because people showed interest and intention but failed to deliver.

Eric
 
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:24 PM   #48
onebuck
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Hi,

I'm a little groggy right now so please forgive any mistakes or seemingly misdirected thoughts.

@ woodman;
Quote:
excerpt from http://slackbook.org/
New book! Seriously! I mean it this time!

Yes, work has begun on a slackbook 3.0! Yes this has taken way too long. Yes, the more you complain to me the faster it will get done. No, I don't think Duke Nukem Forever will get released before the slackbook does (minus delays for printed copies). The more you keep griping to me about me being lazy, the faster I'll get this done.
In order to tide you over a little bit and to solicit feedback on improvements from the community, I've posted a beta online here. Please send all comments, criticisms, suggestions, fixes, additions, and the like to me via e-mail. The book currently does not have an official license, but will likely be CC Non-commercial (with a commercial exception for Slackware Inc. of course).
If you want to take a look at the Docbook source code and send in some patches, you can grab the latest version from git with:
darkstar:~$ git clone git://slackbook.org/slackbook
I have already got the book but the meds won't allow a clear thought process. Typing on laptop rather hard right now.

Alien_Bob is correct about the Slackbook issues at alt.os.linux.slackware concerning interaction. That is why I earlier stated;
Quote:
One of my major reasons for not participating at alt.os.linux.slackware any longer. Ceased long ago for lack of professional interaction(s) at alt.os.linux.slackware.
At the time usenet was considered a public venue and still is to some. The condition of the environment was very poor with individuals that had no respect and were very demeaning to other active users. You had to ignore users like rm and crew. The communications got heated,jagged broken snips and very poor intercommunication between other willing participants because of trash talk from the idiot spammers. Even now with Google the spam reports do not rid the vile attitudes nor verbiage of vulgar terms.
I'm closed minded now towards alt.os.linux.slackware. Maybe there are things that are done to the positive now within alt.os.linux.slackware. But the language is rough/vulgar therefore to me not professional.

Not to start a flame war with anyone. Venting one's frustration in an open forum as a defense is not moot. Alan has done a lot of work on the 2& 3 versions. Sure, people failed to fulfill their commitment so others had to fill the need for earlier version. We are discussing the goal of getting Slackbook 3.0 completed and how. Maybe Alan is burnt out and has been burnt by others who failed him for 2.0 version. Now we are looking to get the ball rolling down the alley to knock all the pins down for a strike. Thus having a 300 game.

LQ Slackware forum is the Official forum. So for Alan to post here and interact for the Slackbook is proper. I'm grateful that Alan has decided to 'git' the Slackbook. At least something can be done and there is no excuse for anyone to not participate in some way. As I stated before "People will talk the game but few will walk the game" or something like that.

I proofed this post the best that I can. Must stop for now since my head is spinning. No wise cracks in the future. This post is submitted while under the influence of Doctor induced 'UI' therefore take it for what it is. I'll probably read it Friday and say 'OMG'
 
Old 04-14-2011, 08:26 PM   #49
Woodsman
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Quote:
If that is not a public discussion than I don't know what is.
I'm defining "public" to mean knowable to any user in a ready fashion. As I mentioned, most news groups are open to anybody to join, yet many people today do not know about news groups. Or even care. Perhaps 8 years ago those "in the know" about Slackware all joined that group. I doubt many people today join or even know about the group. Your links show the discussion was "public" to the participants of the Slackware news group, yes, but not to the general public who also use Slackware and are interested in the book.

Yet even if Alan solicited help, he did so 8 years ago. That means solicitations for version 2.0, not 3.0, which has nothing to do with the people who have queried about the book in the past two to three years.

Quote:
What old site? What new site? It has always been http://slackbook.org/ you know, and Alan posted the location a few posts up too.
With reference to my statement:
Old site: slackbook.org
New site: the beta version of slackbook 3.0

He posted links to the beta version --- to which I was referring.

Quote:
Then you are completely off track. Alan explained that in the end, he did a lot of the work because people showed interest and intention but failed to deliver.
Hardly off track. You established there was a discussion about version 2.0 but not 3.0. That was my point. When did he solicit help for writing version 3.0? Version 2.0 was released in 2005. That is five years ago. Since then I don't recall a request for help with 3.0.

The point in this and previous threads is folks in the community are weary of not having a book at all. Alan wants everybody to kick him in the butt but the only person who can motivate Alan is Alan. Alan might be an excellent coder for the Slackware development team and might a terrific person too, but has said himself in this thread that he seeks external motivations to finish the book. Hence my statement that he is the one who is bored, not others.

I don't discount the work Alan has provided thus far on 3.0. Yet I think the time has arrived to let people in the community help. People don't want to learn how to use git version control software only to help with wordsmithing. A more convenient method is needed.

Last edited by Woodsman; 04-14-2011 at 08:31 PM.
 
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:01 PM   #50
hitest
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post

I proofed this post the best that I can. Must stop for now since my head is spinning. No wise cracks in the future. This post is submitted while under the influence of Doctor induced 'UI' therefore take it for what it is. I'll probably read it Friday and say 'OMG'
I hope you're feeling better soon, onebuck. I'm currently getting over a plague/virus inflicted upon me by my delightful children.
 
Old 04-14-2011, 09:09 PM   #51
mRgOBLIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
I don't discount the work Alan has provided thus far on 3.0. Yet I think the time has arrived to let people in the community help. People don't want to learn how to use git version control software only to help with wordsmithing. A more convenient method is needed.
All I hear is blah blah blah...

Woodsman.

You do not need to learn git to help, just read what Alan posted.

Quote:
Also, git is publicly available now, so you can check-out the source code and send me diffs via e-mail. Those will be greatly appreciated and not go unnoticed.
And there is no need to learn git to contribute...
I'm sure even you can read the website announcement and follow the simple instructions given there.

Quote:
If you want to take a look at the Docbook source code and send in some patches, you can grab the latest version from git with:

darkstar:~$ git clone git://slackbook.org/slackbook
Unless you have been given commit access to the git repo, that command is the only time "git" will be needed... (except perhaps in a different context )

Just let it go,
The subject has been brought to light, Alan has responded by providing a suitable method for contributions.

If the instructions and methods provided seem a little difficult then perhaps it's a suitable "barrier to entry".

And yes I know I'm coming off as an elitist jerk but enough is enough.
 
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:37 PM   #52
vtel57
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What's the big damned fuss here, anyway? It's just a book. How many of those here bitching about how long the 3rd Ed is taking actually even read the 2nd Ed? Slackware Essentials is a pretty decent basic introduction to Slackware and Linux, but admit it... most of you here in this thread are waaaay past the level of knowledge that is used in that book. So, again... what the hell's the big deal? When Alan finishes the book, it'll be finished. Then you'll all be happy again.

I had a .pdf version of Slackware Essentials since forever. I only bought the dead tree version to help out Slackware, Inc in a small way. I'll buy the 3rd Ed for the same reason. Oh, I'll read it, don't you worry. That's just me, though. I might actually learn something. It's happened before.

Let's all be happy-ass Slackers and leave off this topic before it starts to get ugly in here.

Regards,

~Eric
 
Old 04-15-2011, 02:27 AM   #53
lumak
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But Alan wants it to get violent and ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by +Alan Hicks+ View Post
I know there's some points I missed but I hope I hit all the highlights. If I start to slip don't send me a nicely worded simple e-mail asking me when I'll be done, send a real nasty-gram. I mean the kind of flames that make grown men weep as their ass hairs shrivel up inside their asbestos underwear. The kind of e-mails that remind me of ANC or Realto Margarino. Threaten me with bodily harm. Go on IRC and piss me off. Don't me nice. The time for being nice is over; it's time to get shit done.
 
Old 04-15-2011, 05:12 AM   #54
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtel57 View Post
What's the big damned fuss here, anyway? It's just a book. How many of those here bitching about how long the 3rd Ed is taking actually even read the 2nd Ed? Slackware Essentials is a pretty decent basic introduction to Slackware and Linux, but admit it... most of you here in this thread are waaaay past the level of knowledge that is used in that book. So, again... what the hell's the big deal? When Alan finishes the book, it'll be finished. Then you'll all be happy again.
You have a right to your opinion. Most of the members that are serious Slackware users desire a tool that benefit all Slackware users, new & old. You have been a Slacker long enough to be aware of other distro user attacks concerning myths about Slackware. I for one desire to have the best documentation for the greatest distribution. Share what I know along with other users that can benefit both the newbie or a casual user.

As to your query about who has read Ver 2.0, count my vote as to have used & read the book. I'm ashamed that involvement was not there from fellow Slackers for Alan with ver 2.0. Myself included. I for one was not fully aware of the whole situation at the time. I have been trying to get information for a long time as to the situation for ver. 3.0. Not just the past few dates. That is what bothers me! If we had been provided feedback or answers to emails then the irritations would not be there. I hope your correct about member involvement with being happy about the Slackbook situation. A great quote that fits;

"Knowledge is of two kinds. We Know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it."- Samuel Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtel57 View Post
I had a .pdf version of Slackware Essentials since forever. I only bought the dead tree version to help out Slackware, Inc in a small way. I'll buy the 3rd Ed for the same reason. Oh, I'll read it, don't you worry. That's just me, though. I might actually learn something. It's happened before.
Great! I hope the final installment will not be that long off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtel57 View Post
Let's all be happy-ass Slackers and leave off this topic before it starts to get ugly in here.

Regards,

~Eric
Open discussion between intelligent beings can sometimes get rough intellectually. If one is intelligent and keeps personal feeling out then there should be no blood letting. Two more great quotes that fit the situation;

Good manners is the art of making those people easy with whom we converse. Whoever makes the fewest persons uneasy, is the best bred in the company.”- Swift

A tool is but the extension of a man's hand and a machine is but a complex tool. He that invents a machine augments the power of man and the well being of mankind.” - Henry Ward Beecher

Thanks for the input!

 
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:16 AM   #55
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
I hope you're feeling better soon, onebuck. I'm currently getting over a plague/virus inflicted upon me by my delightful children.
Thanks! Going through the pain to remove pain sometimes can be very tiring. Awoke this mourning feeling much better than yesterday. My Grand kids know not to come near me when their sick. They respect me and honor me because they have grown to know what happens to Grandpa when he gets sick. They do not like to visit hospital either. Being a Dad is totally different, you can't avoid contact.
 
Old 04-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #56
vtel57
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Awww well, hell...

All good points, Gary. I think your heart is in the right place. +1 rep for you.

Later...

~Eric
 
Old 04-15-2011, 01:28 PM   #57
catkin
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Best wishes to all working on the next edition but TBH I don't see much advantage in having such a book; one of the great things about Slackware is that it is plain Linux (plus GNU plus ...) so almost al the information you need to administer Slackware is already well covered in generic documentation. That lack of a real need for the SlackBook may be why it has languished this long. Perhaps the new edition could detail only the few Slackware-specific subjects and, for all the rest, could simply have links to the best pages of generic information
 
Old 04-15-2011, 01:31 PM   #58
Woodsman
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Quote:
Let's all be happy-ass Slackers and leave off this topic before it starts to get ugly in here.
Ignoring problems won't solve them. Sometimes folks need to talk and discuss.

Quote:
All I hear is blah blah blah...
I could respond to your post with the same sentence.

Sometimes folks become overly focused in the midst of a serious discussion. I use Slackware and I care. So do you or you would not have responded as you did or be a part of the development team.

I intend to find time for some proofreading and editing. Hopefully 3.0 will be here soon.

Quote:
. . . but enough is enough.
Agreed.
 
Old 04-15-2011, 03:52 PM   #59
lumak
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@catkin

The book is nice because it answers questions about package management and gives a basic knowledge you need to start administering a system.

After all, if you don't know the name of the tool for the job, how do you know what man page to read? Sure apropos is nice if you know about it... but what if you didn't even know that? Worse yet, what if there was no man page or even what man was!?

Hrmm speaking of missing documentation, It appears the Slackbook is missing a LAMP section. Doesn't have to be very long... but one would be nice.
 
Old 04-15-2011, 04:58 PM   #60
mRgOBLIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumak View Post
Hrmm speaking of missing documentation, It appears the Slackbook is missing a LAMP section. Doesn't have to be very long... but one would be nice.
It's all about scope really and I'm not sure if a LAMP section really fits in the book.

I do have a How-To here though... some of that could likely be used in there.

http://connie.slackware.com/~mrgobli...kware-lamp.php
 
  


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