You describe something really weird, and if I had such a problem, I'd most certainly switch to Xfce or Fluxbox, but I think it's worth mentioning, that I do not observe this. kdesu so far works flawlessly and starts all the applications I pass to it as a "parameter".

Question is, how to track down what your problem is actually caused by. Maybe some of the highly skilled crew members here can help. (If I could, I wouldn't hesitate, but your problem seems to go beyond my skills).

gargamel

@ gargamel -- it is definitely weird, and not consistent in how it manifests either.

Also, I AM using XFCE! :) But to start something as root, I still use `kdesu` from XFCE. I've tried the ALT-F2 thing or whatever it is, to get the XFCE run-dialog, but seems that too uses the kdesu backend (I haven't torn it apart to verify this) so meanwhile, I'm just dealing with it, by entering the password a whack of times until it accepts :)
Sasha

Yes, correct, thanks! This is a really neat feature, I like it a lot. In fact I think, that KDE 4 has a few rough edges, still, but the fundamental approach nicely combines the best things from various desktop paradigms (such as Mac and Windows) with its own innovations. The result is much better than just trying to copy what Windows users may be used to.

I am not really happy about the recent developments in OpenOffice.org. I liked StarOffice 5.2 a lot better. It was different than everything Microsoft had to offer at its time, and it was better and more productive.
Now it's a clone of Microsoft Office, with the advantage of being open-sourced and using an ISO standardised document format. But the technology is no better and not much different. In fact, mewnwhile the UI resembles Microsoft stuff to a degree, that I consult the OOo help, when I don't know how to do something in MS Excel.
Of course, it means, that I don't have to re-think when I switch applications, but it also means that there will be no real added value from an end-user's point of view in using OOo instead of MS Office.

While KDE 4 is young and in some minor areas a little immature, I like it much better. It shows real innovation, and some of its concepts and its basic architecture justify the highest expectations for the future. It demonstrates, what the community is able to achieve, which is much more than just clone existing commercial stuff.

gargamel

Have you had the opportunity to try Go-OO? It looks interesting.

Your support of KDE 4.xx is both interesting and baffling. As I've said elsewhere I ran it for 6 months and the only program that I used daily that was anywhere as functional and/or configurable as its KDE 3.5.10 predecessor, was not KDE related at all, but, rather, Opera which I downloaded and installed directly from the Opera web site with each new release.

Sorry, but Forcing a desktop upon the community that "is young and in some minor areas a little immature..." and "...shows real innovation, and some of its concepts and its basic architecture justify the highest expectations for the future..." sounds like ms-speak out of Redmond, Washington.

That KDE would force a "immature" and features and functions lacking (its applications) desktop upon us via the various Linux distributions that have played along, has to be one of, if not the, greatest injustices, read "scam" if you will, ever perpetrated on the Open Source community. Replacing something that works, i.e, KDE 3.5.10, with something "that isn't quite ready,"i.e., KDE 4.xx, and hasn't been "quite ready" for the 1 1/2 years since it was introduced, has been, IMHO, a great source of disappointment. As other posts here and on other forums have shown, mine is not an unique opinion.
There is a little solace to be had in knowing that at least Slackware wasn't the first to jump on the KDE 4.xx bandwagon.

I have to agree with some of the posts here. KDE 4.2 is a disaster. It looks nice, but that's the only positive thing I can say about it. After two days of trying to get used to it, I decided the easiest thing was to go back to slack 12.2. My biggest gripes are...

Hard to customize. Customization in KDE 3.5 was non-intuitive and difficult,
but at least it could be done. Not so with KDE 4.

Akonadi! I will never use this. The best way to improve this application is to allow me to remove it from my system. Even if it is "one of the pillars of KDE 4"

Can't drag and drop with konqueror or dolphin while in detail view

Can't disable all the annoying tool tips.

I know this is not really a Slackware issue, but as the main window manager, KDE is dragging down the whole distro. I've been a big slackware fan since around version 7 or 8 and this is the first time that I've been disappointed in a new version.

Slackware 13 was my first long encounter with KDE4, and what a horrible Vista like mess it is. It's not that it isn't pretty, innovative and fast - it's that it's so unstable, bordering on being useless. It crashes and locks a lot more than KDE3 (which hardly ever crashes - at least I can't remember when it last died on me), and seeing as my computers are how I earn my pay, crashing really isn't an option for me.

So for the first time ever, I'm considering XFCE instead of KDE. Or perhaps I'll just stay with 12.2 and hope for a more stable experience with Slackware 13.1 and KDE4. I suspect 12.2 will win.

As other have said, I'm sort of baffled at the choice of KDE4 for Slackware 13. IMHO it belongs in testing/. KDE4 is currently dragging the Slackware brand through the mud, at least on the computers I've tested (one AMD/ATI, one nVidia and one Intel Atom). At least that's my opinion. I see that a lot of Slackware users are very happy with KDE4, so chances are it's just me being unlucky.

Oh well, here's hoping for a better experience with Slackware 13.1

:)
/Thomas

I should probably remain silent since I don't use KDE. However, most of the problems seem related to adapting to operational changes of the desktop. Personally, I agree with Pat's inclusion of KDE 4.x. KDE 3.5x might have been put in /pasture, though, if possible. Crashes are a problem if due to KDE 4.x, but most users should probably spend a bit more time ADAPTING to the operational changes ... ;)

I don't know, I think everyone is being too hard on the inclusion of KDE 4. What would a brand new dot zero Slackware release be without a few liberal changes, especially a new desktop? Pat can't cling on to KDE 3.5 forever guys. It's already pretty much dead and personally I was getting bored with it anyways. There's no direction it can possibly go except down. Not sure what all the fuss is about, we already know Pat's reasons for not shipping GNOME with Slackware anymore and there's already other great window managers like fluxbox and desktop alternatives like XFCE. Shipping 13.0 with KDE 3.5 would have been a disappointment imo. As it stands it's like living on the edge a little with KDE 4 vs. kicking a dead horse with KDE 3.5.

Anyways, I installed 13.0 last night and really love it. Thanks again Slack team for all your hard work on this release. I think all of the best decisions were made :)

EDIT: Also thank you to everyone for all your opinions. I know a lot of you aren't getting along with KDE4, in fact despise it, so there's a lot of conflict of taste and opinion and I don't want to sound like "you're wrong, I'm right." I just feel KDE4 has more direction and keeps the forward momentum of the project going as a whole.

I used Slackware-current for a bit with KDE4 on a Pentium 4 with 2GB RAM and a GeForce FX 5600 for video.
Overall, I was unhappy with KDE4 on that setup. It made my computer feel its age, so I opted to try XFCE.
It was the first time I spent any decent amount of time using XFCE, but I came away really liking it. Not quite up to par with the aesthetics of a full-blown GNOME desktop, but with a little work things were snazzy enough for me.

Then I built my Core i7 920 box, now sporting a passively-cooled GeForce 9800 GT. KDE4 is very nice.
Building packages and compiling packages? Freakin' sweet compared to the Pentium 4.


I posted earlier in this thread about a sound issue, where I could only hear sound from one source at a time. I made some headway, and now I can hear sound from multiple sources at once, though I'm still working on getting sound from a VBox guest while also getting sound from my Slackware64 host. I'll start another thread when I get it all figured out.

Pat V explained the move to KDE 4 in the Slackware 13 release notes:
http://slackware.com/releasenotes/13.0.php
As Smoooth103 said, KDE 3 (and the KDE apps that run on it) have pretty much reached end of life and will no longer be supported.

I had this in another thread about "upgrading" KDE4 to KDE3.5, but I think the point is still really relevant (I normally don't toot my own horn, so sorry for this).

Can you please explain how KDE 4.xx whose applications are not as functional or configurable as their KDE 3.5.10 counterparts can be a step up?
At least 3.5.10 worked. 4.xx does not, or not as well as 3.5.10.
So, we are suppose to bite the bullet, feel the pain, give up a known working product and use an unfinished product because those in power feel for whatever reasons it will SOMEDAY, BUt NOT NOW, be a good desktop? Boggles the mind! Sheeeeezzzzzzz
:banghead:

No, you can simply ignore 13.0 and stick with 12.2 or you can try another Windows Manager (ex: XFCE, fluxbox) or, may I say, switch to another distro.

PV explained in detail the reasons for the switch to KDE4 in the RELEASE_NOTES.

Fluxbox is always a good choice! Personally, I think KDE4 rocks, I've been using it since it came out as their 'testing' (right around 4.0). It may not be as solid as 3.5 but at least we're finally seeing some innovation on their part. I have to agree with gegechris and say that if you don't like PV's choice, there's always Ubuntu...

As you know Slackware 13.0 ships with a plethora of desktop environments. If KDE 4.2.4 is not to your liking give XFce 4.6.1 a try. I alternate between KDE and XFce on Slackware 13.0. XFce is quite full-featured, light and fast.
Like it or not, cwizardone, KDE 3.5.10 is dead.

That attitude is something that has bothered me since I first signed on to this forum. While most of the members here are friendly and willing to help when they can, there are a few who cannot or will not join in a debate or discussion of the pros and cons of any particular issue, but rather are quick to basically say, "like it or take a hike."
Lemmings to the sea and all that....
:tisk:

From the release notes:
"...and nearly everything that was available for KDE3 has been ported to KDE4 and works great."

Sorry, but with all due respect, that is simply not true and "nearly" isn't good enough.

Then don't let the minority bother you. I'm sure you've seen by now the posts explaining how to "upgrade" ;) from KDE 4.x to 3.5.10.

Regards,

Slackware 13 x64
 

Just finished my third install of Slackware 13 after waiting since release day for Gnome to compile. Still amazed at the simplicity under Slackware. Even most of the info in the Slackbook that came along from version 11 still works.

By the way, can't get the system tools in Gnome to work. Just doesn't find any system information to insert into the boxes and panels for users and groups etc. Had this problem with Arch Linux too but they just don't seem to care about repairing it.

Anyway, other two installs are running on KDE and Fluxbox. Both are really speedy (Core2Duo E4400, 2GB Ram, Intel G945 Onboard) but I'm struggling to use to KDE, it seems a bit messy to navigate around and there are file names and folders that just seem to hang in the middle of graphics with now real 'structure' to hold them on to the page; might be better with it in a week or so. Fluxbox is just great and I was testing it before shoving it onto an old laptop (Sony Vaio P3, 1GB Ram). Will try XFCE again soon because I like the way it renders the windows.

Other than that, totally stable, installation was a breeze and should do me good for at least the next 3 years on all my machines.

Thanks Pat and team.... again.

@cwizardone: I apologize for my ambiguous intentions there, I only meant to whimsically remind everyone of their options ;-). Also, you have to remember that you weren't exactly asking for help, rather bashing the distro and the creators. That seems to remind me of a certain saying about flies and honey and vinegar and such...

I've noticed quite a few comments about things "not working" in KDE4. What specifically? I think people get frustrated because some of the items in KDE4 are non-intuitive or not consistent with the same method of acheiving the same task under 3.5.

People also saying too much processing overhead on slower machines? You can cut off all those fancy effects and make it look and feel exactly like 3.5. It's a lot easier to cut off those effects and unnecessary things now as well.

In my case it's a simple matter of stability. There's no specific program that causes it (as far as I can tell), but KDE4 is not as stable as 3.5, at least not on my computers.

Currently KDE4 is not able to keep up with the pressure of my regular workload. As written earlier, my computers are work-tools. I'm not just reading email, web surfing and listening to a bit of music.

As for look and feel, I'm very impressed with KDE4, and I truly look forward to the day where it is as stable and solid as 3.5. I will switch in a heartbeat.

Currently KDE4 is a toy, and my work is too important for me and my family to be trusted to a toy. I have rent to pay, and a crashing/freezing toy DE is not helping me bring in the cash to do so.

:)
/Thomas

I could see that KDE4 potentially is not as stable as 3.5. My experience is that if you have something runnning that is reliable, work dependent especially, why upgrade at all? Even though Slackware is on the forefront of reliability, anytime you upgrade isn't there inherently more technical issues and bugs? There has to be a happy medium between being on the "cutting edge" and being archaic. I think slackware is it. Why not just load "window maker" or something that is archaic that likely has most of the bugs worked out, and can be purely reliable?

I will likely run 12.2 on my critical machine until I have been sufficiently confident that 13, after some time, testing, and evaluation, will meet my requirements... hard to think everyone has done all that in the 2 days since it has been released. ;)

I'm using Slackware64, and I really like KDE4. That said, I do have issues with k3b. I have had two iso burns fail at 99%. I could install the k3b from /extra, but I can accomplish what I need from the cli. So its not that important to me. I will wait on the k3b developer, then build it.

Other than k3b, I am really enjoying this release. And I intend to stay pure 64 - goodbye google earth. :)

I'm not "bashing" Slackware or its developers, but I'm not happy with the folks over at KDE. :)

The question remains, why would anyone replace something that works with something that does NOT work as well as what it is replacing?

IMHO, KDE 4.x should remain in the background as a development project until the time comes that it works was well as 3.5.x. Then, and only then, should it be released as "stable" and a suiteable replacement for 3.5.x. Until then it is just a pretty girl with a rotten personality. :)

The primary reason for upgrading is because I would like to have the latest version of GNAT GPL (libre.adacore.com). It wont run on Slackware 12.1, which is what I'm using on my primary desktop computer at the moment.

Had it not been for that specific piece of software, I would probably not have considered upgrading yet.

I wont load "window maker" because I'm quite happy with KDE3.5 and I had hoped KDE4 would've proved to just as solid.

And no, going from Slackware 10.2 to 12.1 (and 12.2 on some computers) has been completely painless. I've not experienced more technical issues/bugs with each new release - quite the opposite actually.

Except with 13.0 - or rather with KDE4.

I too will keep using 12.1 and 12.2, and patiently wait for 13.1 and what will hopefully be a more mature and stable KDE4 experience.

And in my case, I don't need more than one day of freezes and crashes to tell me that KDE4 is less stable than KDE3.5

And please note: I'm not complaining about HOW things are done in KDE4. I'm greatly impressed by the design and the feel of KDE4, and I truly look forward to being able to use it in my daily work in the, hopefully, "near" future. :)

/Thomas

Even if one thinks that something is stable, there are usually always problems found and improvements to be made. I don't think that anything is ever "stable". Use and abuse will improve KDE4x.

[Humor attempt coming]
I mean, where would Windows be if it waited until it was stable?

So far so good, well most of it anyway...

Only two 'less fun bugs' I've noticed.
1. slackpkg mirror file has some URL's not being correct (posted that in its own thread).
2. KTorrent is not latest version + https URL's don't work
(KTorrent, well, https in tracker URL's is working if KIO is disabled. But then
trackers with http URL's don't. And the other way around).

So there's (atm) two packages I'd like to see an upgrade for soon...

Else from the above:
Have to adjust to the new KDE (navigate and tweak it).

/M

No, not yet. Maybe I'll do so, sooner or later.

Not what I observe, definitely. Konqueror and KMail and Kate and some others, I use daily, are, at least, as configurable and much more stable than in 3.5.x. Konqueror properly renders a lot of pages, it wasn't able to display in previous versions (though there are still a couple of pages where it fails). And: In many cases I don't have to configure anything, as the defaults now are exactly what I set manually in KDE 3.5.x. This way KDE 4 simply saves me time.

Oh, my goodness! LOL!!! :D

Well, I doubt, that MS would describe something it wants to sell as "immature". And no, I am not getting paid by an open-source desktop environment development project, and I am not working for the "evil empire", either. ;)

I understand your point, and I think it might have been a good idea to include both KDE 3.5 and 4 with Slackware 13, but it would only really have made sense, if KDE 3.5 would be maintained, at least for a while. I think you are a bit too pessimistic here, but, as I said, I get your point.

gargamel

Did you try to use the burned CDs? I see k3b hang at 99%, too, here, but after cancelling the burn process I can use the CDs without a problem, nevertheless.

gargamel

Good way to put it! :)

gargamel

Actually, it was the dvd. I just tossed it without trying. Maybe I should have tried, but I was afraid something would be missing.

That was not my experience. KMail and Koepete were both so unstable I stopped using them in KDE 4.xx. Konqueror I've rarely used for more than file a manager, so I can't make a fair comparison. However, i much prefer Konqueror over Dolphin as the file manager.
Gwenview, now part of the graphics package in KDE 4.x, wasn't as useful as the KDE 3.5 version.
Okular wasn't bad, but I still prefer Adobe's pdf reader.
The games are "prettier" in 4.x, but I rarely use them.
K3b and Kaffeine are both not ready for 'prime time" in 4.xx
KOffice as always been a joke, IMHO, and the space on the installation CD/DVD could be better used for something else.
KDE 4.xx brings nothing to the party that I, as an "end user," see as worthwhile, other than a pretty face, and should not be the default, IMHO, but just an optional desktop along with KDE 3.5x, XFce, Fluxbox, etc., etc.

Just downloaded and installed it. I just overwrote my root partition from 12.2, will mount and rename my old home folder then create my user account so all the KDE config is fresh. Took maybe an hour, I just selected my root, formatted and selected everything then went outside with the kids for around an hour and came back in and checked and it was done, install lilo and reboot. Log in as root, wlan0 iwconfig essid="myssid", dhcpcd wlan0, startx and I'm here, took about as long to do as to type it,fast easy install and setup, recognized wireless and video no problem. Easier to install than Windows for sure. Looks like it still has the dpi issue, fonts are big.
My eeePC is a 900HA with a 500G drive I swapped in replacing the 160G.

So the other minor issues is the Akonadi server for Korganizer complains about not being configured right, thats not really an eeePC issue though.
Starting KDE took a few seconds but IIRC is does the very first time due to setting up all the config files and such, next time should be faster. I find the new KDE start menu to be somewhat annoying, have to wait for it to slide over to the next menu and I can't find the run command dialog, will take some getting used to. Seems faster so far, firefox scrolling smoother for example. The animations in KDE are smoother and faster.

One of the main draws of Slackware for me has been its "Keep it simple" approach to things. KDE 4 on the other hand is going in completely the opposite direction. All that Akonadi stuff being a prime example. I'm finding it hard to reconcile the two approaches into a coherent product. The people who appreciate slackware for what it is are likely to be turned off by the complexities of KDE4.

If Slackware is still going to appeal to this set of people then I think there's going to need to be some changes to the way it's distributed. Someone who just wants a simple XFCE based system isn't going to want to have to download a 4GB DVD image containing all that KDE bloat to get it.

Moving some of the KDE dependencies out of the L set and putting them in with KDE itself would be a start, but it's my belief that making the KDE4 an optional download/addon module for slackware would be a better way to go.

I also support this great quote. It is a dilemma with no ideal solution.

krunner (ALT+F2) is actually one of the best features in KDE4 and almost removes the need for a menu at all (for experienced users).
I absolutely hate the new KDE4 menu but you can either change it to the "Classic" style or try something like "Lancelot" or use krunner (as above)

As for stability, the main reason I never really liked KDE at all was due to it being very unstable and bloated. Thus far 4.2.x actually runs faster and is more stable than any other 3.x version I've tried. I've been running it as my default desktop on my 1.8Ghz/1Gb Ram notebook for many months during the time we have been testing and have been very impressed with it.

I still prefer Konqueror over Dolphin and I also find that kpdf is actually better than either okular or Acrobat reader, the important thing is that there are still choices.

We knew there were still a few issues with k3b and these are mentioned in the Release notes as are some work-arounds.

KDE3 is all but EOL'd and I think that Slackware moving to KDE4 was the correct thing to do at this time. We would have liked to include 4.3.0 but we were too close to a release and it would have been wrong to let it go pretty much un-tested.

It's good to hear intelligent feedback about what is good and bad with KDE4 (and the release as a whole) but the whiney "It's just broken/alpha/rubbish/different'/not kde3'" rants will likely be ignored by all but those participating in them.

I upgraded to slack 13.0 from slack 12.2 and everything is running smoothly. The only issue I noticed after the upgrade is an error message related to "alsactl restore", which I solved by running "alsactl store" once I log in my session.
I found myself enjoying KDE 4 once I turned off all the effects. Not that I don't like the effects, which are by the way really good, but simply because I don't need them. I have to admit that as a former KDE 3.5 user, it took me a few hours of reading to understand all the new concepts in KDE 4, especially plasma. From my viewpoint, KDE 4 is a clear improvement. The only thing I'm really missing from KDE 3.5 is the transparency settings in Konsole. They don't seem to work when plasma is activated.
Also, I wasn't able to run Kile after the upgrade for compatibility reason with KDE 4. As there is no current sbo build for the KDE 4 version of Kile, I had to compile the 2.1beta2 from source and it worked fine (by the way, okular is amazing). I had similar issues with other packages but they were easily solved thanks to slackbuild.org and sbopkg.
So far, the only thing I couldn't figure out is how to get auctex in texmacs and Krisk to run. The former just doesn't want to get installed and the later simply crashes all the time:).

I didn't know the ALT-F2, would be nice if it were on the menu someplace.
The Akonadi issue, can its requirements be setup by default in slackware? Also the dpi issue, how can I tell if its a Slackware issue or X issue, i.e. whom do I report it to.

I've been using -current since the 12.2 release and LOVE 13.0....everything is perfect imho. Admit it was a tough adjust from
kde 3.5 to the present, but hey..you know what..stuff changes...and I must admit that for my daily use which granted is hardly the same as everybody else...*it just works* -- Long Live Slackware :)

Thats what I find with Slackware, everything just works. I admin Windows servers for a living and do some security reporting for our Unix team and have been sent to RedHat training so when I get home I don't want to tinker with OS's which is one of the reasons I gave up on Windows XP, it took way too much work to keep it running, Slackware I install and it runs, I don't have to mess with it unless I want to upgrade when a new version comes out like 13, then I spend less time than installing the current month's Windows updates and I have a whole new version.

You speak of 4.xx. Did you use the apps in 4.2.4 or previous versions?
Because I use KMail for bulk email work, and it is so far absolutely stable and also faster then its 3.5.10 incarnation. I, too, use Kopete, and I haven't had stability problems with it in 4.2.4, so far.

Kaffeine works just fine, here. I use it for many things, including watching TV vial DVB-T. It never crashed, so far. In fact, it gets stable image, where with previous versions I mostly saw noise, with the same hardware. Only the localisation is rather incomplete, leading to funny mixes of words in different languages.

I totally agree with you regarding K3b and, even more, KOffice. Especially the latter was never usable for anything. KWord still "flushes" ODF documents. Yesterday I gave it try: I loaded a document created with OOo. Adding a few words and saving it "cleared" the text. So KWord actually is the JPEG of word processors: It compresses documents, by removing data. ;)

gargamel

I also am using Kaffeine in Slackware 13 (32bit). I have had no problems with Kaffeine so far. Videos play just ok and without issues.
I also just burned a data DVD with K3B and it burned the disc just fine.

Human beings are adaptable, that's why we're at the top of the evolutionary tree. I adapted to using a computer at the age of 57, I adapted to using GNU/Linux at 60. I can adapt to using KDE4, XFCE, FluxBox, any DE/WM. I can adapt to anything, or adapt
anything to suit me.

slackware64 gets a two thumbs up for me. i have been running current (32bit) before switching to slackware64 13.0 release. i'd say the performance are more snappy and responsive than before. i use kontact heavily for mails, rss feeds and calendaring and it runs fast and stable. the same can be said for kopete and firefox. k3b works fine so far with burning images and data..only that the other day when it didn't report a successful burn when it actually was. dolphin takes a bit of configuring to get it to look and work smoothly, but once i was used to it file operations are a breeze. my system also seems to run quieter and smoother, maybe due to efficient cpu usage but maybe that's just me.

coupled with slackpkg and sbopkg, i can get access to new software rather easily and with much control over the system. all in all i would say the release is awesome and worth the upgrade. big congrats and thank yous to pat, bob, eric and the team behind slackware :D

IIRC, I started with 4.1.3 and the last version I used was 4.2.1.

I see 4.3.1 was released yesterday, 1 September.

Slackware 13 was just released last Friday and it looks, in regards to KDE, that we are already two steps behind. On Monday I was "chatting" with a friend on Yahoo Messenger via Kopete on my side. Everything worked fine. Yesterday when I fired up Kopete, and each time since, I get a message from Yahoo Admin. telling me I'm using an obsolete version of Yahoo Messenger and I have to upgrade. So, I left a message over at the KDE forum asking if there was a patch for Kopete and received the following reply:

"Unfortunately this means you now need to upgrade to the KDE 4.3 or higher release of KDE in order to get the newer version of Kopete that uses Yahoo's newer protocols. ICQ will likely be fixed by doing the same."

Heck, I haven't even "upgraded" to Slackware 13 with KDE 4.2.4, so I guess that puts me, what, 3 steps behind?
:banghead:

(Not that I consider KDE 4.xx an upgrade, mind you. :) )

None of the previous 4.xx versions was tested and quality assured as 4.2.4 by "the crew". All I can say is, that I trust in Pat V., Alien Bob, Robby Workman and the other members of the Slackware team, and that they did not disappoint me.

I admit, that there may be scenarios and use cases where the snags and the existing gaps (I don't deny them) of KDE 4.2.4 in functionality may bite you. But for the things I do with my computer they are not that relevant, and certainly none of them is show stopper for me. Your situation may be different. But it also might be the case, that the stability problems you report about KDE 4.2.1 and earlier don't exist in 4.2.4, anymore.

Unfortunately it is impossible (or rather complicated and time consuming, at least) to install both KDE 3.5.10 and 4.2.4. Therefore I cannot really recommend you to try 4.2.4, as this would mean you had to install Slackware 13.0, and then re-install 12.2, in case you still don't like KDE 4.

Regarding Yahoo: Three weeks ago I could chat using Kopete in KDE 4.2.4 on Slackware64-current. Did they really change their protocols in the meantime, making them incompatible with practically all existing software (not only Kopete)?

gargamel

This is nothing new. It's happened several times before.

Yahoo wants you to use their IM client so they get the ad revenue from making you look at all the ads. You can't really blame them, they are a business after all. However, ever since alternate 3rd party IM clients started appearing which allow users to avoid Yahoo's ads then that presents Yahoo with a problem. So, every so often they change the protocols in one way or another in an attempt to break the 3rd party clients. Of course, the 3rd party client developers soon catch up and bring out a new release, but it usually takes a little time and is an inconvenience to the users. Yahoo hopes that this will make the users turn back to their official client and restore their ad revenue.


If the KDE guys had anything about them, they should expect Yahoo to change the protocol from time to time and design the app accordingly by abstracting the protocol related code into an independently updateable plugin module. Requiring users to upgrade not only the IM client, but also the entire Desktop environment just because Yahoo change the IM protocol is just bad design.

Of course, it's far easier to criticise and say how it should be done than to actually do it, but the point still stands.

Well I installed Slack 13 yesterday so I guess it's about time to say what I think:

The installation went smoothly as Slackware installations usually do, and soon enough I was booting into the new installation. I shocked by the 2.6.29.x "Tuz" logo, which I have to admit is a little creepy...

I started kdm and logged in to KDE4. I was impressed by the fact that Slackware 13 has a lot better support for my laptop's power system. I can now suspend, hibernate, use CPU throttling, and adjust volume with the hardware wheel; unlike 12.2 where none of these things worked in a fresh install. My computer also appears to run a lot cooler in Slack 13 than it did in 12.2, in which I was even having overheating problems. These factors make upgrading to 13 worthwile for me.

At first I was pleased with not having to set up an xorg.conf, but then I started noticing display problems like cursor corruption and screen corruption when moving windows and such. I also had no OpenGL support. I tried installing ATI's display drivers (version 9.2) but it did not support the Xorg version or the kernel. I heard the 9.8 version of ATI's drivers work but unfortunately they don't support my card, leaving ATI proprietary drivers completely useless to me. However, after a while of experimenting and some research I'm using the xorg radeon driver without any problems. I downloaded the latest git version of libdrm, the drm kernel modules, the radeon display driver, and Mesa, compiled and installed them and set up an xorg.conf. Finally I have OpenGL support and no screen problems whatsoever using open source drivers instead of ATI's, which is a first for me using Linux!

As for KDE4, I've finally gotten used to it and I like a lot of its new features.
Overall, Slackware 13 is probably the best distro/version I've tried!

I'm planning on trying to install KDE 4.3.1 and KDE 3.5.10 on my Slackware box using these instructions:
http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Star...sting_Versions

Basically they want the user to make a special account that uses special envvars for compiling one version of KDE so that it doesn't interfere with one that's installed already. I wonder if the same thing could be done by making a startkde script for each version that sets the envvars like the guide suggests your .bashrc does? The only problem is that Slackware installs KDE's executables to /usr/bin, and you'd probably want that in your PATH regardless of what version of KDE you're using. I guess I would have to remove KDE 4.2.4 and install the two versions I want in different prefixes, maybe /opt/kde3 and /opt/kde4...

Sorry for rambling.