Kernel Hard Drive Notation
 

I am one of those guys that liked the /dev/hda1 notation. I am not handicaped and I dont need 2 paranthesis and a coma to read where are my partiotions. It appears that under a standard slack12 instalation I cant boot the new kernel with lilo since lilo.conf does not accept this as a viable syntax method. How can I disable that notation -- like forever or so!

what ?!?!

I am using the /dev/hda notation right now with lilo. Only grub uses that stupid notation.

Hi,
'lilo' still works the way it always has. Maybe you should 'man lilo.conf' and 'man lilo'.

You can check the 'man' for each. The default Slackware 12 install uses 'lilo' not grub. If you do want to use grub then it is available in the Slackware 12 /extra.

Here's a snippet from my Slack 12 lilo.conf...

I reinstalled lilo and it worked, seems lilo itself was acting weird. Thanks for the help anyway!

That "stupid notation" is necessary because GRUB doesn't get re-installed in the MBR every time you change the menu (menu.lst in GRUB). GRUB stage 1 (in the MBR) operates in the absence of the kernel, & w/ only the knowledge of the attached drives as discovered & passed by the BIOS.

I probably hate the 0-based numbering as much as anyone, but something like it is necessary. At least the "hd(n,m)" syntax makes it abundantly clear that you are not dealing w/ a kernel "/dev/", a piece of syntax I could live w/o -- what's wrong w/ "hdan"?

If you don't like GRUB, stick w/ lilo. Personally, I'm willing to trade the 0-based numbering & the lack of the ability to enter a simple number in the menu for the extra features, such as the availability of the GRUB shell during boot

I agree, but that doesn't mean they have to use a different numbering. Use hda1 for hd(0,0) and everyone is happy. Why did they have to come up with their own notation? That wasn't necessary, even if they are without a kernel.

I'm afraid you're missing my point. (hd0,0) is NOT necessarily hda1, due to BIOS & mapping issues. (hd0,0) is always, AFAIK, the 1st drive found by the BIOS. hda1 is always (on) the IDE Primary Master. Often, maybe usually, these are the same, but if there is NO Primary Master, then hda1 won't exist & (hd0,0) will be something else, like perhaps hdb1.

The change I would like would be to 1-based numbering & maybe use brackets (easier to type -- no shift key) instead of parentheses: [hd1,1]. However, calling the 1st drive found by the BIOS "hda" would lead easily lead to people thinking that it is the same as Linux (kernel) "hda", which it isn't. The current GRUB notation is rubbing our noses in the difference, however uncomfortable or unpleasant that may be.

Sorry, I can't easily find a link to a better explanation, maybe someone like saikee, aus9, syg00, or our ubiquitous Moderators would help out here.

Here are some basic, albeit not very on point, references:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/man...ing-convention

Similar problems here at LQ:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...er-grub-618617
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...eration-618654
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...l-path-373987/
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ion&do=process

I won't call anything stupid, but it's lilo that is out of step here. Nearly everything in the *nix world starts with number 0, not 1, when enumerating things. If lilo were consistent then the 7th partition on the first drive would be hdag and not hda7. I'll agree that (hd0,6) has to be interpreted just like hdag or hda7 has to be.

Most people use and defend lilo just because it'Ss what theay are used to, or because they are stuck with it, in the sense that Slackware doesn't give you an easy choice in the installer. But just watch -the day that PatV changes to using grub, then lilo will be the most vile, clumsy and stupid thing there ever was. I'll refer you to past arguments about the use of dbus, hal and udev if you don't believe me...

Good observation, gnashley.
I'm quite comfortable using grub in Debian. I know there are several Slackware developers here. Is there any indication that Pat may adopt grub in the future? I'm comfortable with lilo as well (I'm not trying to start a flame fest here, just curious).:)

Btw, the hard drive notation in GRUB2 will be slightly changed (partition numbering will start at 1).

/me wonders what kind of response that gets from the community…

Wow, that sounds like a recipe for massive amounts of frustration and irritation on the part of existing users of grub.

Lilo is not "out of step". Lilo has no control over the naming of the hard drives--you can blame Linus Torvalds for that.

Disk partitions are enumerated using natural numbers, not whole numbers. Natural numbers (i.e., "counting numbers") are more human-friendly than trying to make people think of everything in terms of offsets from zero. There are times when it's appropriate to use counting numbers, and times when it's appropriate to use whole numbers, and the term "counting" should be a big hint about why partitions use counting numbers.

"Past arguments" about dbus/hal/udev are rather likely to simply be foolish trollery. Your argument isn't too far from that, since the complaints about dbus/hal/udev were likely people carping about changing to it. For this to be a reasonable comparison, people would have to be complaining about switching to LILO.