Slackers have known for some time that Pat eventually was going to adopt KDE 4.x and drop 3.5. The latest current branch reflects that path.

Traditionally, Pat does not adopt a package unless proven stable. Therefore I am inclined to believe Pat thinks KDE 4.2.1 is reasonably stable. Many reviewers seem to think the same, although bugs and compatibility issues remain.

Seems then the remaining significant KDE 4.x question is not one of stability but completeness. After all, KDE is an acronym for K Desktop Environment, which implies a robust collection of apps. I've been surfing the web trying to discern which KDE components have not yet been converted fully to QT4. Some examples include K3B, Quanta Plus, and KOffice (beta).

From what I have read KDE 3.5 apps will run in KDE 4.x. That is not the issue. I'm only curious about what is not yet converted. I appreciate anybody adding to this thread to create a list of KDE apps not yet converted or fully supported in QT4.

Thanks.

This what you get in the -current's /slackware/kde directory at time of writing:As you can see, k3b and koffice are present. Quanta+ is not, though it used to be shipped with kdewebdev.

To complete my former answer, please find attached the list of all binaries shipped in slackware-current's slackware/kde directory at time of writing and being installed in /usr/bin.

No less than 411 apps

I'm not impressed with the KDE4 version of Amarok. It seems to have been designed with iTunes users in mind. I use it almost exclusively for podcasts, and unless I missed something, I don't see how new podcasts are indicated the way they were in the tree list tree.

I'll keep using Amarok 1.4.

I would imagine that KDE 3 will be available for some time. Computers more than 5 years old may run better with KDE 3 than KDE 4, but I might be proven wrong.

Thanks for the list. The K3B and KOffice version numbers indicate they are not fully ported.

Based upon the release cycle adopted by the KDE developers, the 4.3 release is scheduled for July 2009. Based upon the more-or-less typical Slackware release cycle, I don't expect Slackware 13.0 until July or later. Perhaps Pat will wait to release 13.0 until after 4.3, which, hopefully, then will prove KDE being more complete than 4.2.1.

With KDE 4.x still in development flux, I wonder whether Pat will distribute KDE 4.x updates between official Slackware releases. Traditionally he does not do that except for security patches. Yet if KDE 4.x is incomplete, then providing updated packages would be nice. For example, if a fully ported K3B is released after 13.0 is released, then hopefully Pat would distribute the updated package.

I'm in no hurry to migrate to 4.x, but has anybody run across good articles or tips for migrating from 3.5.x to 4.x? If 4.x remains incomplete when Slackware 13.0 is released, and that includes "extra" apps such as DigiKam, K9Copy, Kaffeine, etc., then I'll be content to update to 13.0 except for the KDE 4.x packages.

None of this is life-and-death, of course.

You have to realize that both are being re-written from scratch. The k3b developer admitted that he was busier with other projects and did not give k3b a high priority. And Koffice is a big program, the re-write resulted in missing features compared with the old 3.x releases. That is why they still call it beta now, even though the programs work well. YOu also have to realize that we are talking about slackware-current here. People tend to forget that slackware-current is a development project - there may be surprises along the road. If you are bothered by sudden and major leaps, then by all means, use one of the stable Slackware releases (like 12.2). By the time the next Slackware release ships, the KDE4 version of k3b should be stable. If not, the k3b developers are to blame but Slackware will not likely wait for them.

By the way, both programs - k3b and koffice - are not part of the KDE "core", their development cycles are independent of KDE's.

KDE4 is complete. What you see as "missing features" may not be present in KDE4 for a long time. Quanta4 has not seen any serious development during the past year, and you will have to use the KDE3 version together with the KDE3 compatibility libraries in slackware-current/extra. That same "trick" can be used for some of the other programs that were part of the KDE3 family and were not ported over to KDE4 or have not seen recent development.

I do not see the need for this. KDE4 is a complete, fast and useable desktop environment. When Slackware 13.0 (or 12.34567890 or whatever) ships, it will have KDE4.2.1 or perhaps 4.2.2 or even 4.3. But that version will not be updated in /patches . I guess that only vulnerabilities will cause a package update.

If some of the programs that live in KDE's slipstream have a different pace of development, that means that some of these programs inevitably are going to become obsolete. If that is an issue, it would be better to talk to and encourage the developers. Software developers, especially those who write software in their free personal time, like to hear that people love, and use, the stuff they produce. Disinterest is the death of a lot of good software.

Since none of these programs are part of KDE, or Slackware, I do not see their relevance to the discussion. Still, I can tell you that digikam should see it's first stable KDE4 oriented release any day now, kaffeine has already has a stable KDE4 port and k9copy seems to lag behind seriously.

Please take into consideration that you can not make this a theoretical exercise. You will actually have to install slackware-current including KDE 4.2.1 and use it for a while in all seriousness before writing here that it is not "complete". Even when there are some applications that are missing, there are many advantages to migrating over to KDE4 (not the least being the fact that Slackware 12.2 was the last release to see KDE3). I love KDE4, it does what I want much better than KDE3 ever could. On several levels: I like dolphin better than konqueror, I like the plasma desktop over the KDE3 desktop features, I like the built-in automatic compositing manage. Plus, it looks so much better than KDE3. It looks better than MS Windows for sure - something which I can not say of KDE3. Overall, my gut feeling is that I am more productive using KDE4.

Eric

Sorry for the move away from topic, but if koffice is not KDE4 ready and it is not a core part of KDE, then would it be a sensible time to dump it in favor of openoffice.

samac

Samar,

in my understanding this request should be addressed directly to Patrick Volkerding -- my guess being that you are neither the first not the last asking to include OpenOffice in Slackware

Meanwhile, as you probably already know SlackBuilds for it are available @ http://slackbuilds.org.

Well... I was NOT impressed with KDE 4.0, or 4.1.x, but they did finally get it right with 4.2.1.

However, as Woodsman has pointed out, it is not complete.

IMHO, The Panel is far from complete. There is nowhere near the features, i.e., "configerability" that was available in 3.5.xx.

The System Tray overlaps into the digital clock or maybe that problem is with the digital clock window. The clock is also missing some of the "configerability" options, e.g., a 24 hour clock, that were available in 3.5.xx.

The Quicklaunch, again, lacks the "configerability" options of the quick launch in 3.5.xx, and there is no easy way, as there was in KDE 3.5.10, to add programs to it, or, at least I can't find it.

Gwenview, now part of the kdegraphics package, still cannot use all the kipi-plugins that were available in the version made for KDE 3.5.xx, which makes it not much more than a simple graphics viewer.

Never cared for Dolphin and still don't, much prefer Konqueror, but Dolphin use to give you the option of opening a folder as root. That option is no longer available or, at least, I can't find it.

Wish List:

OpenOffice instead of, or in addition to, KOffice.

VLC (Videolan) as the default multimedia application.

KMail still lacks the ability to forward HTML e-mail in its original format, but, then again, that wasn't an option in 3.5.10.

I don't have the same issues as you. In the link below, I have a 24 hour clock, and the system tray is a good distance away from the clock. To add an icon to quick launch, right click and choose add icon. http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5403/shoti.png


To open a folder as root in KDE 4 with Dolphin http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kde4+dolphin+open+as+root Sorry had to use that link. Create your own service menu, or create an application link for kdesu dolphin, right click on a folder set the preferences to add your new link. Konq is still present as well.

OpenOffice along side KOffice.

VLC should NOT be included with Slackware. It can be a nightmare to build, which includes far too many outside dependencies, many are unstable (ffmpeg and x264 just to name 2) Leave one out and you piss too many people off. Xine does a fine job, and is easy enough to build, track and update. For my local build of VLC, I have to track 10 or so different projects. If one gets updated, everything needs to be rebuilt. PITA. I'm sure Eric enjoys building VLC as well

Just as an alternative to KOffice was suggested, try using another mail application. Thunderbird is included. Not sure about HTML mail.

Maybe you don't want a 24 hour clock?

Change your settings in Regional & Language System Settings to reflect this.

So, back to topic. I switched to kde4 (on 12.2) recently and also switched some applications already. Here's the status of the apps I know:
- amarok (released, I can play music)
- krusader (beta, works very good)
- gtk-qt-engine (released, svn-version works good in normal gtk apps, firefox looks like crap)
- k3b (pre-alpha, works well depending on the svn revision)
- basket (pre-alpha. kde4 port underway - still using kde3 version)
- konversation (pre-alpha. kde4 port underway - still using kde3 version)
- rosegarden (pre-alpha. kde4 port underway - still using kde3 version)
- pinentry-qt4 (svn, works good)
- xconfig (linux kernel configuration utility. No signs of a qt4 port)

and the things I haven't tried yet:
- krename (beta, not tested)
- digikam (beta, not tested)
- kaffeine (pre-alpha, not tested)
- k9copy (released, seems not at all lagging behind as the last update was last week)
- kftpgrabber (svn, not tested)
- kmobiletools (svn, not tested. was in kdepim, but has been moved to playground again lately)
- kdebluetooth (released, not tested)
- bibletime (released, not tested)

For other apps you can take a look at http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KD...Porting_Status

That I knew, but add icon from where? The .desktop folder?
Work your way through the file system to each and every program and it its icon separately? In KDE 3.5.10 you can just drag and drop an icon from the desktop to the Quicklaunch bar.

Between the two I would rather have OpenOffice as I don't find KOffice to be of much use and un-install it almost immediately. I admit I haven't used it recently, i.e., in over a year, but last time I tried KOffice it could not save ms-word files and it could not open and properly display my old WordPerfect files. OpenOffice does both extremely well.

Isn't VLC now self contained? Why do you feel every program has to be "built" or "re-built" to be used in Slackware? Many programs work just fine straight "out of the box" from their developers with no tweaking required. As I've said before, some Slackers seem to make things far more difficult than necessary.

Thunderbird works fine with HTML mail and that is the only reason I keep it on the hard drive.
Thunderbird will forward HTML mail, which is the vast majority of the e-mail I receive each day, in its original format. If you use Firefox as your browser you can "copy and paste" from a web site into a Thunderbird and it will transfer over as it appeared on the web site, including all graphics and photos, but not the colored background.
You can't do that with Opera and KMail, unfortunately.

However, Thunderbird doesn't keep you informed as to what account it is checking for mail. You can't highlight a portion (a sentence or paragraph) of an e-mail and then click on reply and respond to just that highlighted section.
KMail can do that and must more. KMail gives you more control of your e-mail, both sending and receiving, and it can display received HTML mail but it cannot forward HTML e-mail in its original format. You can forward it as an attachment, but then you can't edit out any addresses, etc., that you don't want to be included. That is its only flaw, IMHO.
The public is using HTML e-mail, so regardless of what the KMail developers think of HTML e-mail (security risk) they should give the users what they want or KMail will be left behind.

I just checked "Regional and Language System Settings" and there is NOT an option for a 24 hour clock, unfortunately.

With all due respect, Alien Bob (and I mean that with all sincerity) how can KDE 4.xx make you "more productive" when it lacks the functionality of its predecessor?

How can (and what) can it do "much better than KDE3 ever could" when it lacks the functionality of KDE3??!!

I'm just a end user and don't have your knowledge of Slackware and KDE (and computers in general), but, in my personal opinon, Dolphin is not as easy to use as Konqueror and I don't really care for either as I would prefer something along the line of Midnight Commander à la Krusader.

The developers seem to all be "in love" with KDE4, but as an end user I just don't see it. Oh, it is pretty, in a dark sort of way, but as to functionality... well, IT just isn't there. Or, as that old TV commercial use to say, "Where is the beef?" So, where is the beef? Why is KDE4 so important? How am I, as a end user, going to see the "Benefit." Sorry, while, again, it is pretty, I don't see the "benefit." Sell me. Sell me the benefit, because other than a pretty face, it is not apparent. Pretty faces often disguise empty souls.