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Old 01-05-2011, 05:41 PM   #16
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guanx View Post
If the major maintainer(s) refuse to care about sth., it's under the risk of being forbidden.
Sorry, but I don't see that.
 
Old 01-05-2011, 08:08 PM   #17
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I think there is a difference between forbidding something and saying "I personally refuse". No one will forbid you to use as much RAM as you want.
To be honest, no more than 64GB on this silly 32 bits platform... There is still a limit.
 
Old 01-05-2011, 08:57 PM   #18
onebuck
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Hi,

So my wish for that new shared memory expansion unit is not granted?

Passions unguided are for the most part mere madness.”- Thomas Hobbes
 
Old 01-05-2011, 09:09 PM   #19
guanx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Sorry, but I don't see that.
If you don't see it, it does not exist. -- That is Philosophy.
 
Old 01-06-2011, 04:50 AM   #20
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,

So my wish for that new shared memory expansion unit is not granted?

Passions unguided are for the most part mere madness.”- Thomas Hobbes
The 64G barrier is a physical limit set by the processor architecture. What is it?

Here's what a Core 2 Duo says:

Code:
bash-4.1# cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep sizes
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Address registers are 36 bits, so you can access up to 64GB, in PAE mode.

Here's what a Phenom x4 says:

Code:
bash-4.1# cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep sizes
address sizes   : 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
address sizes   : 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
address sizes   : 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
address sizes   : 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Address registers have 48 bits, so you can access up to 256TB, in PAE mode. Unbelievable, huh?

The 2G Barrier and appalling stories about PAE, are just myths.

In fact, before hitting the natural barrier of the processor architecture, you will be limited by the motherboard.

For example, I have a Gigabyte GA-M720-US3. Even if the CPU is a Phenom x4, which allows me to access up to 256TB using Slackware32! the motherboard is limited to only 16GB.

So no matter what option I use, this is my hardware limit: 16G. And, sadly, I already have 8G.

------------
And last but not least, if we ask why we need this huge memory. In my case, virtual machines and 3D rendering. But the problem today is that there are some developers that are stupid. Especially those that create Web content in Flash.

For example, I know a site whose creator can successfully compete for the prize Worst Ever Existing WebDesigner. This site contains a (Flash) gallery of images, that require to allocate about 1GB system memory! If you have 2G system memory and you access this site, you're surprised to directly reach the swap. Unbelievable, huh?
 
Old 01-06-2011, 07:18 AM   #21
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
The 64G barrier is a physical limit set by the processor architecture. What is it?
<snip>
Shared Memory expansion was utilized when we truly had to have the means to share memory between systems, mostly DEC VAX years ago.

Still used with some stacked inter-processors between multiple systems with external stacks. The technique was first used with early PC for GPU and system memory. I think the IBM Pcjr was the first released with this technique.

In fact most kernels use this technique for memory management.

One thing you have to remember is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. PETA notice! No cats were harmed.
 
Old 01-06-2011, 08:49 AM   #22
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Question for Darth Vader:

I'm curious, how would it be possible to use an x86_64 kernel on top of Slackware32?

I run 64 bit Slack current, but there are one or two 32 bit programs I would really like to have.
The programs have ancient requirements and cannot be updated to 64 bit.
 
Old 01-06-2011, 09:12 AM   #23
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staus View Post
Question for Darth Vader:

I'm curious, how would it be possible to use an x86_64 kernel on top of Slackware32?

I run 64 bit Slack current, but there are one or two 32 bit programs I would really like to have.
The programs have ancient requirements and cannot be updated to 64 bit.
One thing less known is that the kernels distributed by Slackware64 are able to run the full Slackware32 in a excellent way, if you have, of course, a 64-bit machine. In fact, this is The Great Secret of Multi-Lib.

How to get this weirdo? Simply install Slackware32 in a classic mode, then install/upgrade one of the pair of x86_64 kernels. Voila!

However, when you compile something, you must use setarch to report a fake i686. I must admit that if you want to compile kernel modules, things become slightly more complicated. You must install the x86_64's kernel source and use a bi-arch GCC, as in AlienBOB's Multi-Lib or the cross-compilling.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-06-2011 at 09:56 AM.
 
Old 01-06-2011, 09:37 AM   #24
enorbet
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Hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
One thing less known is that the kernels distributed by Slackware64 are able to run the full Slackware32 in a excellent way, if you have, of course, a 64-bit machine. In fact, this is The Great Secret of Multi-Lib.

How to get this weirdo? Simply install Slackware32 in a classic mode, then install/upgrade one of the pair of x86_64 kernels. Voila!

However, when you compile something, you must use setarch to report a fake i686.
Isn't that essentially similar to recompiling a 32bit kernel and selecting something like "CONFIG_MK8=y"
but leaving "CONFIG_X86=y" and "CONFIG_X86_32=y" (and maybe a few other options) ?
 
Old 01-06-2011, 09:43 AM   #25
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Isn't that essentially similar to recompiling a 32bit kernel and selecting something like "CONFIG_MK8=y"
but leaving "CONFIG_X86=y" and "CONFIG_X86_32=y" (and maybe a few other options) ?
No. The kernel is really x86_64, the operating system is the old good i486. You can use directly the kernels shipped by Slackware64, if you don't want to experiment with the bi-arch (multilib) GCC or the cross-compiling (my option).

Anyway, an excerpt from the weirdo's kernel source configuration file:

Code:
#
# Automatically generated make config: don't edit
# Linux kernel version: 2.6.35.7
# Sun Oct 10 19:31:46 2010
#
CONFIG_64BIT=y
# CONFIG_X86_32 is not set
CONFIG_X86_64=y
CONFIG_X86=y
CONFIG_INSTRUCTION_DECODER=y
CONFIG_OUTPUT_FORMAT="elf64-x86-64"
CONFIG_ARCH_DEFCONFIG="arch/x86/configs/x86_64_defconfig"
CONFIG_GENERIC_TIME=y
CONFIG_GENERIC_CMOS_UPDATE=y
CONFIG_CLOCKSOURCE_WATCHDOG=y
CONFIG_GENERIC_CLOCKEVENTS=y
...

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-06-2011 at 09:49 AM.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 08:22 AM   #26
dTd
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I'd like to see a thread covering this in detail, that is running a 64bit kernel on 32bit slackware. Kernel modules being the main brunt of the discussion. I use the nvidia module as I'm sure many others do. It would be nice to know if getting that running is possible with this setup.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 06:08 AM   #27
lonestar_italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
No. The kernel is really x86_64, the operating system is the old good i486. You can use directly the kernels shipped by Slackware64, if you don't want to experiment with the bi-arch (multilib) GCC or the cross-compiling (my option).
Interesting. What is the advantage of such installation, and how does it save you from keeping a full multilib structure? Don't you still need the whole set of 64bit libs when you want to run a 64bit application?
 
Old 01-09-2011, 09:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar_italy View Post
Interesting. What is the advantage of such installation, and how does it save you from keeping a full multilib structure? Don't you still need the whole set of 64bit libs when you want to run a 64bit application?

Yes, or statically built 64bit apps.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 10:39 AM   #29
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar_italy View Post
Interesting. What is the advantage of such installation, and how does it save you from keeping a full multilib structure? Don't you still need the whole set of 64bit libs when you want to run a 64bit application?
Who said that I run 64 bit applications?

Like I said, I run ONLY 32 bit applications. Unfortunately, the standard platform for testing at my job require 6G memory virtual machines. And YES, the 32 bit VMWARE is able to run those machines on this setup. So, YES, I can work at home, too...

Then, you need this setup only if you need to be beyond "the 4G limit per application" of PAE.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-09-2011 at 10:50 AM.
 
  


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