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Old 09-08-2019, 05:53 PM   #196
abga
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From my PoV, one real benefit of the UEFI extension is the Secure Booting. A pity that the signing process is badly designed (organized) and that most of the Linux distros are not able to use this functionality.
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...6/#post5825557

But then, as with all these new closed source complex firmware developments (Intel ME comes to mind), UEFI turns to be a security vulnerability by itself:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...rootkit_apt28/

I'm still in denial about UEFI, disabling it (configuring Legacy Booting) whenever I have the occasion and hope that something like coreboot will be generally adopted soon (wishful thinking).
--- end of of-topic ----

Slackware is alive & kicking!
 
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #197
dowelld
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
It seems to me the greatest benefit of UEFI is almost totally Windows-centric.
Of course it is, it was designed largly by Microsoft.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 04:43 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
From my PoV, one real benefit of the UEFI extension is the Secure Booting. A pity that the signing process is badly designed (organized) and that most of the Linux distros are not able to use this functionality.
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...6/#post5825557

But then, as with all these new closed source complex firmware developments (Intel ME comes to mind), UEFI turns to be a security vulnerability by itself:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...rootkit_apt28/

I'm still in denial about UEFI, disabling it (configuring Legacy Booting) whenever I have the occasion and hope that something like coreboot will be generally adopted soon (wishful thinking).
Agree on all counts. I was in denial too...until purchasing my last laptop (Acer Spin 5, a very nice laptop, except for no legacy boot!). So I just had to bite the bullet and deal with it :-(

I think new PCs will increasingly drop the legacy boot option since Intel announced that they would no longer support it for new processors, starting in 2020 [1]

Regarding coreboot: if using it means giving up the Windows agreement, not sure many manufacturers will rush to adopt it... Except maybe some niche players such as Purism.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...-bios-by-2020/
 
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:09 PM   #199
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I just think UEFI is easier to deal with. You can add and delete boot entires in UEFI setup, pointing directly to EFI partitions and the boot file for a given operating system.

MBRs fine, it works, I use it still on some older non-UEFI laptops.. but I can't think of a single reason to use it over UEFI if I have the choice.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 05:26 PM   #200
abga
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@philanc

Thanks for the reminder, forgot about Intel's plan to ditch the Compatibility Support Module for legacy booting. Indeed, it's maybe time to prepare and embrace the UEFI crap.
On coreboot - I doubt Redmond can impose anything related to how the system should be booted, nor require that it should be able to provide Secure Booting, at least not in Europe...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...92P0E120130326
 
Old 09-12-2019, 05:39 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReFracture View Post
I just think UEFI is easier to deal with. You can add and delete boot entires in UEFI setup, pointing directly to EFI partitions and the boot file for a given operating system.

MBRs fine, it works, I use it still on some older non-UEFI laptops.. but I can't think of a single reason to use it over UEFI if I have the choice.
Cautiously I will venture a "Thank you" for that. It's good to know a few find it utility enough to prefer it once they get the mechanics down. I say "cautious" because while I am especially used to creating a dedicted boot partition for a Universal Bootloader back in 32 bit days, I haven't seen anything like that for 64bit. In 32bnit Xosl wasn't bad and Partition Magic's PMagic Boot was excellent especially since if something messed up a simple, quick DOS rescue disc had you back up and running in moments. There are a few others that can be rescued easily and admittedly I haven't had enough failures of LILO to build a simple rescue disc that takes less time than a full system boot, but if UEFI can do all that I guess I will begin the process. So I suppose first order of business is to find out just how does one get into the UEFI /boot partition to effect a rescue. At least now I may have something to look forward to instead of yet another annoying "upgrade".
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:08 PM   #202
philanc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
On coreboot - I doubt Redmond can impose anything related to how the system should be booted, nor require that it should be able to provide Secure Booting, at least not in Europe...
I'm afraid they can:

-- Minimum hardware requirements (05/02/2017)
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...sktop-editions

- in section 3.7 Trusted Platform Module (TPM): "As of July 28, 2016, all new device models, lines or series must implement and be in compliance with the International Standard ISO/IEC 11889:2015 or the Trusted Computing Group TPM 2.0 Library and a component which implements the TPM 2.0 must be present and enabled by default from this effective date."

and in: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...odule-overview
(11/29/2018):

Note: "TPM 2.0 requires UEFI firmware. A computer with legacy BIOS and TPM 2.0 won't work as expected."

-- in Frequently Asked Questions: Windows 10 (12/18/2016)
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...4-45f4b7ed2fb9

- Will Windows 10 require UEFI and Secure Boot?

- No, Windows 10 works just fine on legacy BIOS systems. New devices that come preinstalled with Windows 10 later this summer must have UEFI by default and Secure Boot enabled at the factory.


-- Windows 10 will require UEFI? (03/2015)
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...5-016ef69acc99

No, Windows 10 will continue to support legacy BIOS. For new devices that are launched a year after the release of Windows 10, they must have UEFI and Secure Boot enabled at the factory. This does not affect existing systems.

So I guess Yes, they do force manufacturers to implement UEFI for Windows compatibility. Their powerful tool is the Windows Hardware Compatibility Program
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...compatibility/
 
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:50 PM   #203
abga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philanc View Post
I'm afraid they can:
...
So I guess Yes, they do force manufacturers to implement UEFI for Windows compatibility. Their powerful tool is the Windows Hardware Compatibility Program
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...compatibility/
Just learned now that coreboot actually provides UEFI support:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coreboot#Payloads
https://www.tianocore.org/
And its TPM looks like work in progress:
https://www.coreboot.org/images/f/f1/Tpm_-_Philipp.pdf

But then there's SeaBIOS which comes with both UEFI & TPM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaBIOS
So there are some open source alternatives already.

Redmond will surely get sued again when the sh... hits the fan, that's when people will buy HW and realize they can't load another OS because the system is locked with Secure Booting (without the option to disable it). Remember those Redmond stickers with "Designed for 95/98/XP"? They stopped doing it with Win7.
For HW manufacturers it doesn't really make sense to get into any strict agreement with Redmond, but only to comply with the UEFI standard/specs, they just want to sell their stuff and will surely avoid legal issues - again, at least here in the EU:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ompetition_law
Besides, I noticed in Central & Easter Europe they sell laptops (big brands incl.) with FreeDOS and various versions of Linux, presumably because nobody needs Redmond, thus, the market dictates the supply&demand.
 
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:33 PM   #204
abga
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Basically, to sum up (again), Slackware is alive and kicking! And it does provide all necessary tools for the modern day - UEFI was our last subject.

I guess I'll start learning grub again, last time I used it was on RHEL, very long time ago, it wasn't able to boot from SAN and I raised a few support tickets with the professional "non-English speaking" RH support team in Bangalore. Obviously, nothing was resolved, not even an acknowledgement of the issue and I had to boot from local HDDs.

grub looks simple, there are only a few (pages) options ...
https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html
They should have embedded a shell (like bash) into the boot loader and not creating so many options and directives trying to cover so many scenarios

Last edited by abga; 09-12-2019 at 11:44 PM. Reason: correction
 
Old 09-13-2019, 12:21 AM   #205
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It's also worth pointing out that even though Slackware users are a smaller percentage of all Linux users today, the number of Slackware users has almost certainly gone up.

It's impossible to say for sure, since nobody has been keeping accurate tallies, but the community sure seems larger today than it did in the 90's.

As long as it has users, contributors and our beloved BDFL, it is alive.
 
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:10 PM   #206
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
Basically, to sum up (again), Slackware is alive and kicking! And it does provide all necessary tools for the modern day - UEFI was our last subject.

I guess I'll start learning grub again, last time I used it was on RHEL, very long time ago, it wasn't able to boot from SAN and I raised a few support tickets with the professional "non-English speaking" RH support team in Bangalore. Obviously, nothing was resolved, not even an acknowledgement of the issue and I had to boot from local HDDs.

grub looks simple, there are only a few (pages) options ...
https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html
They should have embedded a shell (like bash) into the boot loader and not creating so many options and directives trying to cover so many scenarios
Ah, the days of OpenBoot, which was essentially a FORTH interpreter.
 
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:42 AM   #207
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttk View Post
As long as it has users, contributors and our beloved BDFL, it is alive.
Well-said, my friend.
 
Old 09-14-2019, 09:48 AM   #208
hpfeil
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I don't use grub, don't need it. After a new kernel upgrade, "cd /boot", invoke mkinitrd as advertised,

/sbin/mkinitrd -c -k (new kernel version) -m ext4

then

cp initrd.gz vmlinuz efi/EFI/Slackware

reboot.
 
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:12 AM   #209
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttk View Post
It's also worth pointing out that even though Slackware users are a smaller percentage of all Linux users today, the number of Slackware users has almost certainly gone up.

It's impossible to say for sure, since nobody has been keeping accurate tallies, but the community sure seems larger today than it did in the 90's.

As long as it has users, contributors and our beloved BDFL, it is alive.
We know what the numbers are. Pat told us. They were actually far, far better than anyone, including him, had ever thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi View Post
The 14.2 release generated nearly $100K in revenue.

...

I only found out about how bad it really was last year when I finally managed to get some numbers...I thought the sales were just that bad, and was really rather depressed about it.
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...9/#post5882751

Honestly, if Slackware survived what happened with the store, it's going to survive everything.

Last edited by dugan; 09-14-2019 at 10:14 AM.
 
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:12 PM   #210
Jan K.
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As long as you're here, you might just as well read something interesting!

The other day I was reading Alien Pastures blog, followed a link, read some more, followed other links and came across this link to LQ...

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ckware-949029/

Enjoy!
 
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