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Old 06-23-2018, 10:59 AM   #76
sombragris
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About this supposed issue of Plasma5:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wael_h View Post
2) Printing is more complicated; every time I print I had to select paper size and set margins.
I have to print a lot due to my profession. Using the hplip set of tools I can set the default parameters for paper size, margins and quality and these are carried out in all print dialogs, both Qt (Plasma5 included) and GTK+.

I'm kind of a grumpy old man so I'd say that printing used to be easier in the kprinter days (this shows my age...) but to be honest I never saw the printing issues described by Wali.

Plasma5 is ready to be included in Slackware in my opinion.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 10:59 AM   #77
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
And it 's working on hardware that doesn't cost $1000. Such as the Radeon device that Pat tested it on.
Yes, I agree. IF you open the computer and browse the web for a half of hour or something, it will work relative well.

The fun part comes when you use the box literally all the day.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 06-23-2018 at 11:03 AM.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 11:14 AM   #78
dugan
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Interesting, possibly relevant:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105381

The other hits I got googling this were very old, so I hope they're not relevant enough to post.

Last edited by dugan; 06-23-2018 at 11:20 AM.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:19 AM   #79
Nille_kungen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
So it's one of X libraries introduced in 1.16 which is supposed to be hardware independent, and the reason why the problem only surfaced in KDE is because other DE aren't making use of that library?
The screenshots were taken on nvidia binary, by the way. Also, I couldn't repro this thing anywhere else, before or after. On integrated radeon it just didn't happen.
I can't help with nvidia since i currently have no nvida hardware in use.
It looks like one of the rendering errors glamor caused.
To be honest i still get a sporadic error with glomor it causes flickering on the roll down of the address bar in firefox every now and then.
I see that very seldom and it doesn't bother me much.
When i used my older hardware glamor gave me a lot of strange problems, it might be fixed now i just don't know.
That's why i recommend that the users with older card try EXA to see if it solves the issue.

Last edited by Nille_kungen; 06-23-2018 at 11:27 AM.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 11:39 AM   #80
montagdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
I understant that you explain us that the graphics stack from Slackware-current is not ready for Plasma5. I agree, we can consider this way too, could be that the Slackware is not ready for Plasma5.

But, following this idea, while is nothing wrong with Plasma5 (specially when you own a $1000 video card), yet is not the time to include it, because the kernel, libdrm, X.org and Mesa from Slackware does not support yet this wonderful modern DE.
The fact that it has issues on a couple cheap video cards, while the vast majority handle it fine, is not a good reason to hold off on including it. The rest of us who actually want to use it (unlike you, who have said multiple times in the past that you intend to remove all traces of Plasma 5 from your system when it does make it in) are not impeded by these issues.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 11:53 AM   #81
elcore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nille_kungen View Post
To be honest i still get a sporadic error with glomor it causes flickering on the roll down of the address bar in firefox every now and then.
I've had flickering on each and every GTK+3 program, and there's plenty of other strange bugs to choose from in /kde/

I remember one bug where if dark theme was used and kde4 program was opened for the first time, it would display a white window for a second before rendering it.
After closing the program and opening again, it stopped doing that until next X server restart.
Funny thing is, it only happened with kde4 programs, not qt4 programs using the exact same color scheme. It's not a visible bug on default white scheme, but it's there still.

Another thing I've noticed is kde4 programs disrespect xrandr and only respect krandr configurations, causing a mismatch in DPI and other *randr settings.
So when /xap/ program looks fine, a /kde/ program looks twisted, and the other way around.. until both xrandr and krandr configs are set to same values.

As far as OP question goes, I don't mind inclusion of plasma5, but I probably won't be using it anyway.
Qt5 I already built since 5.9.x hit LTS and I have nothing to report, it just works.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 11:54 AM   #82
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Interesting, possibly relevant:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105381

The other hits I got googling this were very old, so I hope they're not relevant enough to post.
Well, the ~/.drirc workaround presented in that bug report does nothing useful, but as excepted, make the desktop to tear like hell, which is really strange, as is supposed to use DRI3, while the workaround hits DRI2.

However, it gives a new insight: looks like Plasma5 maybe is not ready yet for X.org 1.20...
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:02 PM   #83
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montagdude View Post
The fact that it has issues on a couple cheap video cards, while the vast majority handle it fine, is not a good reason to hold off on including it. The rest of us who actually want to use it (unlike you, who have said multiple times in the past that you intend to remove all traces of Plasma 5 from your system when it does make it in) are not impeded by these issues.
Meanwhile I use literally that Plasma5. You know what Julius Caesar said: keep your friends close and the enemies even closer.

Then permit me to comment as an informed Plasma5 user.

In other hand, I bet that for every North American or Western European who buy a $1000 video card, around of world are 100 who buy those $50 video craps. Because they work really well for a desktop with whatever Windows (and even with Slackware sporting the KDE4).

However, asking for a hardware stack highly superior to what Windows do for a freaking desktop, I consider laughable.

Microsoft Corp. tried one time that, asking for new and costly video cards, for new CPUs, for new everything. It was Windows VISTA, and it failed lamentable.

So, permit me to ask a bit rhetorically: will be Slackware 15 only for rich guys who not bother to buy brand and costly new computers for it?

I hope we could learn from the Windows VISTA story.

As bottom line: is not the Eric's fault. Contrary, I appreciate much his herculean efforts! BUT, those Plasma guys are either plain crazy or their software is USA only.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 06-23-2018 at 12:11 PM.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:11 PM   #84
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
In other hand, I bet that for every North American or Western European who buy an $1000 video card, around of world are 100 who buy those $50 video craps. They work really well for a desktop with Windows, and even with Slackware sporting the KDE4.
...
So, permit me to ask a bit rhetorically: will be Slackware 15 only for rich guys who not bother to buy brand and costly new computers for it?
I think you should stop this kind of rhetoric. I don't think there are many Slackware users, if any, that pay 1000 euros/dollars for a graphics card. When I was in need of a 'very fast graphics' card in 2015, I bought an Nvidia brand (GTX960) and it cost me not even 200 euros I think.
The last one I bought was a GT1030 in 2017 and it cost me 81 euros.
I think you are richer than many of the people posting here.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:51 PM   #85
TheTKS
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I would love to see Plasma 5 in the next Slackware release.

No graphics problems with an Asus desktop with AMD and a Radeon R7 (don’t know the submodel.)

I’ve been running Slackware64 14.2, no graphics issues with its KDE since installing (~ Nov? last year) with minimal messing around (haven’t even switched from the huge to the generic kernel.)

I’ve tried, a bit, Eric’s Plasma 5 Live 64 (whichever was the latest in the middle of March) on this desktop box and a 4-year old HP laptop. Both worked without problems.

If the next Slackware release has Plasma 5 that works and looks as good as Alien Bob’s, then bring it on!

As for expensive vs cheap hardware, I’m in Canada, where our hardware is usually more expensive than in the US but usually less than in Europe: Amazon.ca has Radeon R7s around the CAD 100 range. BestBuy.ca has a desktop box at CAD 500 (on sale) with AMD and Radeon R7, with slightly better specs than mine bought almost a year ago, higher spec'd than most home users need. Today EUR/CAD is 1.55, USD/CAD is 1.33.

That’s for my use case. I’m a home user that likes to tinker, so my usage doesn’t compare to Darth’s. I’m one of those that uses my box a bit most days – email, browser, word processor, spreadsheet, photo viewing and light editing, occasionally some design & layout CAD/sketching.

Last edited by TheTKS; 06-23-2018 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Elaboration
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:54 PM   #86
wael_h
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Hello everyone;

I think a lot of you did not read my other post I mentioned earlier. It is here. I think this is a very serious issue when login screen is preceded by a screenshot of what you have been doing ....
There are other issues I listed and I asked a question in that post ... I got no answers.
I know it is not up to me to include or not include Plasma5 in slackware, I just think it needs more testing ... I am willing to do my part. I am in the process of installing slackware64 current + multilib + kde5 to provide more accurate logs and reports.

Thank you all very much,

Wali
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:26 PM   #87
RadicalDreamer
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Darth Vader, I get it. Welcome to technological progress. Windows XP worked great on many computers but Microsoft wasn't done. It released Windows Vista and then Windows 7. Computers that run Windows XP couldn't run the newer operating systems. If they did they ran it poorly. I'm sure there have been perfectly capable graphics cards that didn't have the latest DirectX that could run the games for it. I'm sure your computers runs great on KDE 4 but KDE 4 like Windows XP is dead. KDE 4 was great. Windows XP was great. Windows 2000 was the best Microsoft OS. They are dead. Slackware 14.2 will be around for probably another 5-6 more years due to the incredibly long support after a stable release. It is just how the computer ecosystem works. You have to buy a new PC every decade or so if you want to run technologically complex desktop environments. Windows 10 isn't as good as 7 but a lot of people use it. They also get the new DirectX with it if they have the hardware to take advantage of it and not everybody can enjoy DirectX 12. KDE 4 is worse off than Windows 7 right now because no one is maintaining the code. Plasma 5 can be fixed but KDE 4 cannot because its dead. You'd have an argument if someone was maintaining KDE 4's code base. Most distributions have moved on to Plasma 5 and they drop support faster on their older operating systems than Slackware. Slackware isn't like Microsoft. You aren't going to go to sleep one night and wake up with Slackware 15 on your computer without installing it yourself. Its sad when old hardware isn't supported very well in new software but that is how it works sometimes. The KDE developers probably don't have a bunch of old Radeon GPUs laying around so without bug reports they don't know that you are having problems.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 01:45 PM   #88
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer View Post
DWindows 10 isn't as good as 7 but a lot of people use it.
If we want a Reduction Ad Windows, my computers (sporting those budget video cards) runs really well not only Slackware-current with KDE4, but also the Windows 10. Also the Windows 8.1, also the Windows 7.

Oh, and excluding two mini-PC, which are dual core, all of them have processors which are either quad-core, or with eight cores on AM3+ socket.

Did you just said me that an FX-8140, which is an EIGHT cores able to reach 4GHz, paired with 32GB RAM at 1600MHz, THAT thing is obsolete now for you?

OK, it is not a Ryzen, and the memories are DDR3, not DDR4 how any kool kid buy today, but still...

Last edited by Darth Vader; 06-23-2018 at 02:03 PM.
 
Old 06-23-2018, 01:56 PM   #89
montagdude
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Whether he means to or not, Darth is making a good case for including Plasma 5 in Slackware -current so that these bugs have a chance of getting reported properly, because we all know he's not going to do it. He's just going to keep complaining.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:58 PM   #90
elcore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer View Post
Welcome to technological progress.
Welcome to planned obsolescence, you mean?

Not that it's relevant to this thread, but kde3 codebase is maintained by trinity project..
And XP is being officially supported, just not within the States, and not for general public..
 
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