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Old 08-29-2019, 09:15 AM   #421
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
In the UK, we have a political joke: Columbus was the first Labour politician. He set off without knowing where he was going, arrived without knowing where he was, and came back without knowing where he'd been, and he did it all on someone else's money.
Whereas your current prime minister knows the exact date, time and location of the programmed train wreck.
 
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:21 AM   #422
hazel
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We are cursed to live in interesting times.
 
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:54 PM   #423
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You may find the opinions of a former IBM employee and FreeBSD user to be of interest:

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/c...-2#post-436148
I find all this "corporate Linux" bashing a bit annoying. Let me give you an everyday example instead of some futile speculation.

I'm currently in the process of replacing all my bone-headed NIS/NFS based single sign on setups by a solid and secure solution based on 389 Directory Server. 389 Directory Server is to Red Hat Directory Server what CentOS is to Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Originally, it spent some years in the commercial world before returning as an Open Source project. It has an active development community, a real professional documentation, and it JustWorks(tm). Plus, it's free as in speech and as in beer.

Yes, I'm more like a glass-is-half-full type of guy.

Cheers,

Niki

Last edited by kikinovak; 08-29-2019 at 01:56 PM.
 
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:46 PM   #424
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You may find the opinions of a former IBM employee and FreeBSD user to be of interest:

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/c...-2#post-436148
Thank you. That was interesting even if I don't fully "buy it".
 
Old 08-29-2019, 07:16 PM   #425
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
In the UK, we have a political joke: Columbus was the first Labour politician. He set off without knowing where he was going, arrived without knowing where he was, and came back without knowing where he'd been, and he did it all on someone else's money.
Except he did know where he was going, arrived knowing where he was and came back knowing where he had been.... He used Chinese maps, was given the title Governor/Regent of the new lands before setting sail, etc... That's an old tired myth that he did not know.

back on topic...
 
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:14 PM   #426
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
He used Chinese maps, was given the title Governor/Regent of the new lands before setting sail, etc... That's an old tired myth that he did not know.
Is that a Chinese joke?

EDIT: This comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df-uemc-e3w

Last edited by Richard Cranium; 08-29-2019 at 10:15 PM.
 
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:14 PM   #427
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
back on topic...
Too late. This thread has been marked as [SOLVED] long ago.
 
Old 08-30-2019, 12:01 AM   #428
abga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Those That Mitchell & Webb Look episodes were brilliant, I truly miss them. They inspired me with the best attitude in life - adopted it right away!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMvCFlIwMas
(the same attitude I have towards systemd - just to stay on topic )
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:28 PM   #429
Gerard Lally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak View Post
I find all this "corporate Linux" bashing a bit annoying.
Great. But you're the one who started an enterprise Linux project and then abandoned it in mid-air.
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:01 PM   #430
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard Lally View Post
Great. But you're the one who started an enterprise Linux project and then abandoned it in mid-air.
The MLED project has been quite a funny learning experience between 2006 and 2017. Some stuff is still online here. In the end, it simply became unmanageable, because I spent a significant amount of my time building packages from source. Plus, some stuff couldn't be included due to some of Slackware's idiosyncrasies.

If I only used Linux on a couple of home PCs, I would probably still run Slackware. But I really needed something else for the job, so I simply chose a tool that's more apt for my needs.

Here's an experience from the real world you can try for yourself. Currently I'm using 389 Directory Server for Single-Sign-On. It's 100 % Open Source, free as in speech and as in beer. Please build that on Slackware. And then publish the corresponding packages as well as your detailed documentation. Don't tell me that "it's simple, everyone can do it". No. Just do it. Actually do it. Spend hours and days and weeks trying to make that square peg fit in a round hole, and then we'll have that talk again.

So far, there's only one guy who managed to configure secure SSO with LDAP on Slackware, that's ivandi, and he had to rebuild a considerable chunk of the distribution to do that. If I went down that path, I'd probably become an alcoholic. So instead of desperately trying to adapt the tool to my needs, I simply ended up using different tools. Which work perfectly.

Cheers,

Niki
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:15 PM   #431
hitest
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak View Post
So instead of desperately trying to adapt the tool to my needs, I simply ended up using different tools. Which work perfectly.

Cheers,

Niki
This is the beauty of open source software. The freedom to choose an OS or program that meets your needs.
Good to see you on the forum, Niki.
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:49 PM   #432
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Is that a Chinese joke?

EDIT: This comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df-uemc-e3w
LOL...

Zheng He: Columbus and De Gama's largest ships were the size of the lifeboats on Zheng He fleet.
https://precolumbianoceanictravel.we...nd-others.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He
https://www.ancient.eu/article/1334/...s-of-zheng-he/
http://www.gavinmenzies.net/Evidence...-the-1418-map/
http://marcopolovoyages.com/Beijing_...SectionOne.htm

Now way off topic, apologies to everyone else. We now return to your regularly scheduled systemD mashup.
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:42 PM   #433
Gerard Lally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak View Post
Here's an experience from the real world you can try for yourself. Currently I'm using 389 Directory Server for Single-Sign-On. It's 100 % Open Source, free as in speech and as in beer. Please build that on Slackware. And then publish the corresponding packages as well as your detailed documentation. Don't tell me that "it's simple, everyone can do it". No. Just do it. Actually do it. Spend hours and days and weeks trying to make that square peg fit in a round hole, and then we'll have that talk again.
But why should I? I did Postfix+Dovecot, LDAP, PXE, RDP over VNC, multiple virtual networks on a single Xen host, etc., ten years ago. Packet filtering and bandwidth shaping on OpenBSD fifteen years ago. I'm no longer running around as an IT guy. I have neither pretensions about nor ambitions beyond my very low rung on the IT ladder. You obviously still consider that important. Good for you, but I simply don't care one bit to use a bleeding OS to do the same things you use it for. I have run Slackware and do run Slackware for different purposes, and it suits me far more than OpenSUSE does, or Scientific Linux ever did.

Good for you Niki, but please don't keep telling us directly and indirectly you and Ivandi are so much superior because you've narrowed in on one aspect of enterprise that CentOS and SUSE do best. We simply don't care, because that's just your area. It's not ours, and it most certainly doesn't prove Slackware is any less suitable for enterprise purposes. Again, good for you, but we simply don't care, and we don't particularly look forward to either of you visiting the Slackware forum to tell us how superior you are and how much more important your work is. If Slackware and its users are so far beneath you just trundle off and spend your life in the SUSE and CentOS forums instead, where you can at least mix with your equals.
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 07:07 PM   #434
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard Lally View Post
Good for you Niki, but please don't keep telling us directly and indirectly you and Ivandi are so much superior because you've narrowed in on one aspect of enterprise that CentOS and SUSE do best. We simply don't care, because that's just your area. It's not ours, and it most certainly doesn't prove Slackware is any less suitable for enterprise purposes. Again, good for you, but we simply don't care, and we don't particularly look forward to either of you visiting the Slackware forum to tell us how superior you are and how much more important your work is. If Slackware and its users are so far beneath you just trundle off and spend your life in the SUSE and CentOS forums instead, where you can at least mix with your equals.
Well, the deal is that (judging from the Patreon numbers), there isn't that much money floating around for Linux distributions outside of enterprise applications.

As I write this, Pat's going to get the equivalent of an hourly wage of ~$11.41 (assuming that he only works on Slackware M-F, 8 hours a day, and that I didn't eff up the math) from Patreon donations. That's better than the average McDonald's restaurant manager (according to https://www.payscale.com/research/US...on/Hourly_Rate), but a WalMart cashier makes almost as much (according to the same website).

I'm in awe that he's still doing it for a living.
 
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Old 08-30-2019, 07:33 PM   #435
Gerard Lally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Well, the deal is that (judging from the Patreon numbers), there isn't that much money floating around for Linux distributions outside of enterprise applications.
The flip side is that offering an enterprise Slackware Linux would require an outlay in terms of cost and energy. He can work at home, no commute, no travel expenses. No creche expenses? And there must be funds coming in from other sources?

A US company here in Ireland offered me a job in IT and I was staggered to learn how poor the pay was. On a par with McDonalds, and not even at manager level. IT is critical to every sector of society now, yet the bean counters seem to think IT is no more important than serving burgers. Something doesn't add up.
 
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