Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
(Post 6021042)
Maybe. But that's precisely how it was sold initially.
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I don't think it was
ever how it was sold by the developers. I think this is because users used it, saw the speed increase, and then started talking about how fast systemd can boot the system.
This is even #2 on their frequent myths about systemd.
Quote:
Yes, systemd is fast (A pretty complete userspace boot-up in ~900ms, anyone?), but that's primarily just a side-effect of doing things right. In fact, we never really sat down and optimized the last tiny bit of performance out of systemd. Instead, we actually frequently knowingly picked the slightly slower code paths in order to keep the code more readable. This doesn't mean being fast was irrelevant for us, but reducing systemd to its speed is certainly quite a misconception, since that is certainly not anywhere near the top of our list of goals.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
(Post 6021042)
Try this:
$man dmesg
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dmesg does not provide everything you see while booting. It does provide most of it, but there have been things I've searched for (I saw something specific come up during booting and then went to look for it in the dmesg output and it didn't exist).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard Lally
(Post 6021095)
Second: if nobody can point to a feature of systemd that we didn't already have, why exactly did they cause so much disruption by imposing it? And yes, they did impose it, because they made the burden of maintenance so much harder for developers offering alternatives.
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Pretty much everything systemd implemented existed in some way or another, but nothing offered everything combined. The list I provided in my post were things that didn't exist in Slackware, even if some of those features existed in other init systems.
What is unique with systemd is they are trying to get all these separate components and have it all included in one program, which does cause a disruption, especially when the older program providing that service is effectively EOL and doesn't implement features that systemd's version does and new programs start relying on that feature (like with login1).
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
(Post 6021104)
I have to say I'm rather disappointed that it appears few have actually watched the video. The speaker is a BSD guy and he explains some deep level uses, uses that have parallels in MacOS and Windows, in fact he castigates Lennart somewhat for his apparent fascination with (and "taking pages" from) Apple. The point is that if a software developer for BSD, with the deep background he seems to have, sees some developmental value in such init systems (one area mentioned is containers and security, others I understand even less) it is at least worthy of honest discussion IMHO.
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Do you really expect most people in the Slackware forum to watch a 45 minute long video on a subject they are not fans of? I certainly have a lot better things I could do in the 45 minutes than listen to someone talk about something I hope never comes to Slackware. It's painfully obvious you haven't spent any detailed amount of time looking into systemd if you're still asking similar questions to what you asked 4 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
(Post 6021104)
As for the spelling, bassmadrigal, I have read that too and frankly I don't give a hoot. In a title where it is common to capitalize, given that not one single person would misunderstand "SystemD" I care even less.
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I know some people don't care about respecting others choices, but for those who just weren't aware of the proper case of systemd, I wanted to point it out. You can continue to use whatever case you desire, but it may come across to others that you don't know what you're talking about if you can't use the right case of the program. And where is it common to capitalize the last letter of a word?
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
(Post 6021104)
So this thread is so I can hear from anyone who was forced into that curve and accepted that curve and found some value of which I am unaware and I don't mean necessarily limited to systemd, but the entire concept behind why anyone would consider it a good idea.
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Considering how many distros use systemd, it is obvious people were forced into it and many probably grew to realize its benefits since those distros are still extremely popular. We've seen a few people come to Slackware because of this, but there's still plenty who are sticking with the default init. But asking this in the Slackware forum was pointless, because these threads always lead to issues and you have an extremely small pool of people who have the expertise and experience to dive into "intelligent assessment" (and no, I don't consider myself one who as the expertise and experience as I've never used a distro with systemd for much of anything).
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
(Post 6021104)
Years have now passed since so many distributions chose (or caved depending on your POV) to switch to it. Surely the community knows more now than they did then.
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The community wouldn't really include the Slackware forum except for those few who like to distro hop or are forced/required to use it for work. Maybe you should PM Niki Kovacs since he chose to switch to a systemd distro for his business. Surely he would be able to provide you more insight than many of us Slackware users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
(Post 6021104)
I would greatly appreciate fewer comments by people who can't be bothered to spend 47 minutes to get a 2019 update from someone experienced in the field, especially someone something of an outsider whose only affiliation is software development and seems to be reasonably objective. If it is just a rehash of how you (or I) initially reacted, as many have already noted, that's been done to death and doesn't belong in this thread.
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You're annoyed that many of us can't be bothered with a 45 minute video, but your ignorance on the systemd subject seems to persist after 4 years (except now you have a little more understanding after watching a 45 minute video years later). You knew many people wouldn't watch it, but you posted it anyway... Guess it's time to pull out some popcorn until this thread eventually gets locked.
