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bassmadrigal 03-12-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCerovec (Post 5972790)
in that thread where the containers and VM where discussed, and some other threads too, it seems, a quite universal conlcusion was reached of what belongs to the "minimal" install.

The system has to be able to perform only the following tasks:
1. boot (obviously)
2. bring up networking and serial ports if present
3. enable a remote login (be it via net & ssh, or via serial port)
4. have one tool that enables download from network (curl? wget?) via a supplied URL
5. have tools to install an locally referenced package

And that's all - eventually a bare minimal text editor - just to not use ed.

it fits about 128MB really

But then comes the rest of what I mentioned... how many people will be happy with that minimal install? Very few. Almost everyone will need to install additional software, and without dependency resolution, a lot of people will become frustrated very quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCerovec (Post 5972790)
There is currently a trend to make ever more RAM constrained specialized ARM SBC systems that actually fall well within the territory where Slackware excels - LAN routers and servers.

One of them being 256MB ram falls just short of being able to run an Slackware install, for instance, but boasts an quad 1.2GHz CPU and twin Giga LAN ports. Its worth nothing that Slackware runs effortlessly once installed on such a machine - provided you serve IMAP and SAMBA without X.

And this is a perfect example of one of the many misconceptions of minimal installs. Installing less has absolutely nothing to do with RAM usage. That's only based on what you run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCerovec (Post 5972790)
The virtualization crowd really wants a "seed" - a same barren setup that once cloned can be custom fitted with whatever - emphasis on smallest memory footprint as it will be run in great many numbers. They then custom tailor scripts that install whats needed per use basis. And whatnot. Just something as barren as possible still able to log into and run #slackpkg install-new

This already exists in Slackware with lxc templates (see /usr/share/lxc/templates/lxc-slackware -- the below is from 14.2, the list would be different on -current):

Code:

aaa_base
aaa_elflibs
aaa_terminfo
bash
bin
bzip2
coreutils
dcron
dhcpcd
dialog
diffutils
e2fsprogs
elvis
etc
eudev
findutils
gawk
glibc-solibs
gnupg
grep
gzip
iputils
libunistring
logrotate
mpfr
net-tools
network-scripts
ncurses
openssh
openssl-solibs
pkgtools
procps-ng
sed
shadow
sharutils
slackpkg
sysklogd
sysvinit
sysvinit-functions
sysvinit-scripts
tar
util-linux
wget
which
xz

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCerovec (Post 5972790)
All I say is, we're talking of an list of max 20-30 packages that, once established, isn't drastically changed across many releases. The lists should be answering "what can we omit and still be able to acquire a package and install it?".

And all I'm saying is we're talking about adding a minimal install to the installer, which will invite new users to use that option, which will undoubtedly lead to many frustrated users (in reality, how many users do you think want a system that minimal?). For the users who are able to run minimal installs and add the software they require, it wouldn't make a huge difference if it's in the installer or something they do manually.

ponce 03-12-2019 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal (Post 5973027)
This already exists in Slackware with lxc templates (see /usr/share/lxc/templates/lxc-slackware -- the below is from 14.2, the list would be different on -current)

FYI, the new lxc template I had experimented last time on current with needed some additions (YMMV)
Code:

@@ -5,11 +5,14 @@
 bin
 bzip2
 coreutils
+cyrus-sasl
+db48
 dcron
 dhcpcd
 dialog
 diffutils
 e2fsprogs
+elfutils
 elvis
 etc
 eudev
@@ -17,17 +20,25 @@
 gawk
 glibc-solibs
 gnupg
+gnutls
 grep
 gzip
+iproute2
 iputils
+libcap-ng
+libffi
+libmnl
+libtasn1
 libunistring
 logrotate
 mpfr
 net-tools
+nettle
 network-scripts
 ncurses
 openssh
 openssl-solibs
+p11-kit
 pkgtools
 procps-ng
 sed

everyone has his own idea of what a minimal install is and which things are needed in it so, IMHO, it hasn't much sense to ship templates in the distribution (that need to be maintained also on the same stable release: I remember, for example, wget in /patches needing additional dependencies) if who uses them still has to manage solving dependencies himself, like bassmadrigal says.

when I plotted down the list of packages (mainly stolen from vbatts :) ) for the original lxc-template the only criteria I used was, like SCerovec said above, to have an usable slackpkg to be able to add things easily afterwards, but this still doesn't give the user exactly what he wants: the moral of the story is "my minimal install is different from yours".

that said this obviously is not meant to discourage any eventual third-party effort to ship slackpkg templates or tagfiles somewhere where who likes to experiment with them can grab them, or contribute (who said a public git repository?): if someone is interested, please do. :)

SCerovec 03-12-2019 01:35 PM

This is exactly what i was hoping for :hattip:

We might actually try run a public repository and have like few of the mentioned options hosted in there.

After a while it would certainly boil down to either there is a need for infinite number of versions, or there is really one file that could fit many most use cases best. Os somewhere in between :scratch:

And after that while, we might eventually consider if there is any worth of endorsing that ever into Slackware


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