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-   -   Installation time Slackware TAG files (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/installation-time-slackware-tag-files-4175649249/)

deNiro 03-01-2019 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 (Post 5968492)
WOW!

That's first time I see someone here agreeing that the lack of modularity of Slackware may result in supplementary costs for particular large VMs needed to install useless additional software.

There is no lack of modularity. Currently, slackware is even modular on individual package level. But I get what you mean.

Now, tag files are only useful at the moment of installation of your system. After that moment, the lack of dependency checking remains, which means that without the knowledge you still have the same problem. So tagfiles are only useful if you have certain knowledge and know exactly what you want to do with a system, so I voted "NO".

I lack that knowledge myself (and also the time to experiment with trial and error method). So when I do an install, I exclude KDE, and KDEI, and only deselect software in the other sets from which I know that they "polute" my start menu. And yes, my install probably contains 85% of stuff I will never touch.

If you want a smaller Slackware installation and easy of use after the installation, your best option is to use Salix. Those Salix guys have done a great thing for the slackware users. If you want mostly just what you need, use debian/devuan. Without knowlegde, or time, the only solution is dependency checking in package management, and Slackware simply lacks that.

ttk 03-01-2019 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 (Post 5968492)
WOW!

That's first time I see someone here agreeing that the lack of modularity of Slackware may result in supplementary costs for particular large VMs needed to install useless additional software.

I wouldn't characterize it as a shortcoming of Slackware. It's a great distribution for building your own thing, better than most distros that way.

If anything, it's a shortcoming of mine that I can't decide what I want with sufficient precision, identify what I need to make that happen, and stick with the task long enough to bring it to fruition.

igadoter 03-01-2019 02:51 AM

Note that sets of packages ha no particular meaning. Installing only some of them does not mean to create some stripped Slackware installation. As well all packages can be put in one common directory. With such scenario tagfiles are tools one needs to create its own custom installation.

SCerovec 03-01-2019 04:34 AM

I begin to realize that that even in web deployment situations one could benefit of a trimmed down installation.

Like have some (3rd) TAG option for an remote_ready system with slackpkg on top of bare so once initiated one can readily add 3rd party packages even, or with sbotools custom built ones.

Add to that the binary dependencies tracking tool one Slackware user posted here...

We could really use such an article on slackdocs ;) ...

baumei 03-03-2019 01:58 PM

According to my recollection, I have never done the 'everything install'.

Very early in my experience with Slackware I created a recipe for the install process, and I kept the recipe in a text-file. Among other things, this recipe had a listing of each package to be chosen using the 'expert' mode of the package selector in the 'setup' script. With each new version of Slackware I would update my recipe. I used my recipe-method for at least a decade.

Then, one year I had more than a few computers on which to install Slackware for similar duties, so I created a set of tagfiles based on my recipe. These days, my recipe is much shorter because the package-list has been replaced with a sentence saying to choose <tagpath> in the package selector of the 'setup' script, and the installation process goes more quickly. :-)

I see the poll says:
Code:

Did You ever need TAG files for marginal instalation cases?
It has been quite a few years since I did an install on what I would consider to be marginal hardware. Back then, I was still using my recipe. So, did I need tagfiles? No. These days, would I use tagfiles for such an installation? Probably; mainly because it greatly simplifies re-installation with a new version of Slackware, or re-installation on a new hard-drive (or a new RAID).

My most memorable example of an install on marginal hardware: I needed a server for DNS, DHCP, and NTP --- and I had an old computer with a slow processor, not much memory, and a small hard-drive. This computer was to be on the public Internet, and to run 24/7. I set it up with no GUI, and only the software needed for the tasks and my administration of it (much smaller attack surface). The old computer did well. For about a decade it cooled off only for power outages which exceeded the ability of the UPS, and for the yearly cleaning (during the scheduled building maintenace when the electricity to the building was turned off). It was rebooted only for upgrades to the kernel, or for upgrades of the Slackware version.

For my non-marginal install jobs: for quite a while I have been using tagfiles for all of them. I intend to keep doing so.

If the the tagfile functionality is ever removed from Slackware, and the replacement is not significantly better, then I would investigate creating an add-on package to restore the tagfile functionality, and publishing it on SlackBuilds.

Would it be useful to people if several tagfile-sets came with Slackware, each to use as the prototype for a particular purpose? Yes, I think so. (Hmm, I wonder if they already are, and I never came across them?)

Thom1b 03-04-2019 01:26 AM

Hi,

When a new slackware is released I always reinstall from scratch with tagfiles.
You can find my custom tagfiles here if it can help. I have a set of tagfiles for my desktop use and another for my server use. I install a lot of packages in l/ serie, probably more than I need but it takes me too much time to choose what I really need specificly.
If I need some x/ packages in my server use, it's because of imagick.

Have a nice day!

Richard Cranium 03-05-2019 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 (Post 5968492)
WOW!

That's first time I see someone here agreeing that the lack of modularity of Slackware may result in supplementary costs for particular large VMs needed to install useless additional software.

I thought what @ttk said was that it was worth the money to get a larger VM than to expend the effort to trim down the install. That's not the same thing as "lack of modularity" unless you define "modularity" as "someone else has figured out subsets of packages for me to do <X> so I don't have to".

SCerovec 03-06-2019 02:07 AM

Can't help but wonder why most voters seem to pick just one option?

I picked two.

bassmadrigal 03-06-2019 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCerovec (Post 5970696)
Can't help but wonder why most voters seem to pick just one option?

I picked two.

Because I felt only one applied for me. I understand that some would want tag files to allow the installer to support installations other than full, but I personally don't have that need.

igadoter 03-07-2019 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal (Post 5970931)
but I personally don't have that need.

Its good but I just realized that probably personal tastes of all many, many years Slackware users maybe should not influence how Slackware runs - I think that possibly newcomers would find tagfiles convenient way to create installation better suited for their own personal needs - as well it can be kind of esthetic - to not install applications they may consider archaic.

ehartman 03-07-2019 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igadoter (Post 5971114)
newcomers would find tagfiles convenient way to create installation better suited for their own personal needs - as well it can be kind of esthetic - to not install applications they may consider archaic.

Yaeh, but newcomers are more likely to run into dependancy problems as they do not know yet what they will need.

This old-time Linux user in fact doesn't install Slackware all that much (from scratch), I think I last did that with 13.1 (and then I used a full-install and removed afterwards "what I wasn't using"). I even got some "partial packages" install, like Thunar:
I _do_ have the shared libraries, as other components of XFCE use them, but not the executables and/or daemon itself. I never use a file manager and hate "extra daemons" running when I do not need them.

chrisretusn 03-07-2019 06:06 AM

Many, many, many, moons ago, I used the tag files that are part of the installation to select what I wanted. For years now I have opted for the "Full Install".

igadoter 03-07-2019 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehartman (Post 5971139)
Yaeh, but newcomers are more likely to run into dependancy problems as they do not know yet what they will need.

I agree. This is definitely true for someone who is extensively using SlackBuilds, or is planning to use, from slackbuilds.org. SlackBuilds are looking for only additional dependencies. From that point of view it is more convenient to install everything. I always considered such behavior of SlackBuild scripts as their weakness. Assuming scripts will be able to look for missing Slackware dependencie - it would allow to create much more flexible, better suited systems - based on Slackware. Just having only things I need.

bassmadrigal 03-07-2019 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igadoter (Post 5971114)
Its good but I just realized that probably personal tastes of all many, many years Slackware users maybe should not influence how Slackware runs - I think that possibly newcomers would find tagfiles convenient way to create installation better suited for their own personal needs - as well it can be kind of esthetic - to not install applications they may consider archaic.

My answer to the poll and response to the question were based on the poll's question, asking if *I* ever had a need for tag files. I've never had a need for them, but I understand why some would want them.

I can't imagine many scenarios where it would be beneficial for newcomers to do a partial installation. They'll likely find that things are broken or can't be compiled and then think Slackware is garbage and move away from the distro. For the users who understand Slackware and dependencies, it's probably not as big of a deal that Slackware doesn't include many various tag file options, since they can manage that on their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by igadoter (Post 5971245)
I agree. This is definitely true for someone who is extensively using SlackBuilds, or is planning to use, from slackbuilds.org. SlackBuilds are looking for only additional dependencies. From that point of view it is more convenient to install everything. I always considered such behavior of SlackBuild scripts as their weakness. Assuming scripts will be able to look for missing Slackware dependencie - it would allow to create much more flexible, better suited systems - based on Slackware. Just having only things I need.

This exponentially increases the difficulty in maintaining a SlackBuild. You'd have to add in a lot of different checks to see if one of the thousand plus packages in Slackware is installed to determine if the program will compile properly. Have a look at Christoph Willing's LibreOffice.SlackBuild for an idea of what every SlackBuild could look like (assuming the various packages would require configure flags).

But these kinds of ideas are really hard to implement in a distro that doesn't provide dependency resolution. It would hopelessly complicate SBo and would require a lot of work to generate the tag files in the first place (to make sure all required dependencies are included and nothing is broken). And how do you determine what type of systems should be included? How do you decide what desktop to include? Browser? Media player? Or should X even be included? Should you include apache? MPlayer? From a distro that's known for including everything and the kitchen sink, you're going to find a vast array of preferences that people would rather have, and you'll never make everyone happy. Then, if you end up not including apache and someone wants to install it, how do they ensure they have all the dependencies?

For someone who is well-versed in Slackware and how dependencies work, it'd likely be relatively easy for them to determine it based on errors when running the command or within logfiles, but for those not familiar with determining that, it will just frustrate them and it could lead to that user not wanting to use Slackware anymore.

SCerovec 03-08-2019 03:10 AM

it seems the place containing TAG files, should start with a big fat README_before.txt it seems?


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