[SOLVED] Getting Rootless Xorg Working in Slackware-current

Jeebizz · 12-30-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aianson

I am not for or against systemd. I have always thought it would show up one day when needed/wanted.

If that day is today, let's go.

I have been having some issues with a few games that run on the desktop. The recent xorg-server improved the situation but not a complete fix. Some of these games (prboom-plus, quakespasm, ioquake3) seem to stutter, or something like that.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

Adopting systemd just for rootless X? Seems like jumping the gun then as I doubt Pat would do that just for 1 feature.

tramtrist · 12-30-2021, 12:10 PM

Would be less painful to just start using Wayland !

aianson · 12-30-2021, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

Adopting systemd just for rootless X? Seems like jumping the gun then as I doubt Pat would do that just for 1 feature.

I do to. I am not a supporter of systemd. I have very limited knowledge of it but I did use it on a VPS and found it worked nicely, so I am not apposed either.

I wish I had a better report for my issue with x currently, but I just don't know what the problem (or solution) is.

adcdam · 12-30-2021, 02:19 PM

Im just an unknown Slackware user living in a third world country in the ass of the world, my opinion doesnt matter as im no one in Slackware.
My opinion is this: im not against systemd if and only if slackware init is still supported, Gentoo has support for both its original init openrc and systemd so the users have a choice.
The reality is nothing has fragmented Linux as systemd did. Some people like it some dont.
Artix Linux has support for three inits Openrc, runit and s6 https://artixlinux.org/
In Devuan you have also suppport for more than one init. https://www.devuan.org/
Void linux has only one init but has support for two C Library glibc and musl the user can choose. Gentoo and Exherbo both have musl too although experimental for Gentoo.
I really like Slackware, its the distro i like more but if Slackware goes systemd only route then i would say good bye to Slackware. I already have Void Linux installed as a secundary distro. Im just one user and a no one here so if go to another distro nothing will happen.

If a small distro like Artix can mantain three inits perhaps its not impossible for Slackware to so something similar, as Gentoo or other distros did.
One repo for people who prefer the actual init and another repo for people who likes systemd.
About X most people said its dying https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...er-Abandonware and all is moving to wayland. I like to have choices and have both.
about security and rootless X how many years X has been running in root?
Also Slackware is not 100% focused in security there are other security distros like Linux Kodachi, Qubes OS,Whonix, Tails, Kali, Parrot, etc or not Linux and the most secure Openbsd.
i feel that if Slackware goes systemd only route then it will loose some of its identity something that makes Slackware unique, the same goes if Slackware goes with a package manager with automatic dependency resolution. In that case i would think why would i use Slackware when Arch linux or Debian offer the same but with ton more of packages? because those distros have more developers.
I think Slackware lasted so long while others distros i because the core and sould of the system is the same as when it started.
Im saying all this because for me it would be sad if Slackware goes only one route.
Again this is just an opinion of one user the choice its up to Pat and his devs.

LuckyCyborg · 12-30-2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adcdam

My opinion is this: im not against systemd if and only if slackware init is still supported, Gentoo has support for both its original init openrc and systemd so the users have a choice.

In fact, it's possible for a Linux distribution to have both functional SysV init and systemd, but not both active on the same time.

The MX Linux do this thing, using a systemd-shim to run systemd-udevd and systemd-logind, and probably other things from systemd while on SysV init mode.

On MX Linux the user can chose which init system uses (at boot time) and people says that's one of features behind it's huge success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adcdam

The reality is nothing has fragmented Linux as systemd did. Some people like it some dont.

In fact, the reality is that nothing has unified Linux as systemd did. Let's give to Caesar what's of Caesar.

Before systemd, you had to learn Ubuntu, or openSUSE, or Fedora, or Arch, but their init systems and system daemons was different.

Today? All major Linux distributions uses systemd, excluding Slackware (and optionally Gentoo).

You learn to manage Arch Linux? Then you know also to handle Ubuntu, openSUSE or even RHEL.

This could not be said also about Slackware, with its custom and unique init system based on SysV init with a drop of BSD.

Nope, this is NOT an eulogy of systemd - as I said many times, literally I do not care about it and I believe that's the distro maintainers' business to decide the used init system.

I for one I know to use well both the SysV init and systemd. And Slackware's init system of today.

Jeebizz · 12-30-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tramtrist

Would be less painful to just start using Wayland !

Maybe, does Wayland work as non-root? Unfortunately Wayland isn't completely ready as some apps just don't work with it, hence we have XWayland as a 'stepping stone' I guess? I think overall Wayland itself won't be fully adopted for a number of years perhaps. I don't know if it will be like the transtion when Slackware moved from XFree86 to X.

LuckyCyborg · 12-30-2021, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

Maybe, does Wayland work as non-root?

NOT maybe - the Wayland definitively works as non-root. It was made this way. And XWayland is just an ordinary Wayland client, which has no direct hardware input/output access and works also as non-root.

Heck, KWin_wayland has a code snippet which makes it to NOT work as root. Intentionally.

Code:

   if (getuid() == 0) {
        std::cerr << "kwin_wayland does not support running as root." << std::endl;
        return 1;                   
   }

Removing those lines from its main() function will make Wayland/Plasma5 to work as root just like works as unprivileged user.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

Unfortunately Wayland isn't completely ready as some apps just don't work with it, hence we have XWayland as a 'stepping stone' I guess? I think overall Wayland itself won't be fully adopted for a number of years perhaps. I don't know if it will be like the transtion when Slackware moved from XFree86 to X.

Buddy, the Wayland itself is completely ready since really long time.

Because it's a set o libraries and a bunch of headers, which defines how to make a Wayland server and a Wayland client. And some communication protocols.

That's it. No shiny server, no drivers, no network transparency, no clipboard, NOTHING. Just some APIs and protocols.

Compared with X11 and Xorg, where you have a big fat Xorg server with its drivers, where the DEs make their Window Manager and the desktop, on Wayland the DEs should make also their own Wayland server. Each DE have its own Wayland server, implemented as they like.

So, the features offered by KWin(_wayland) are different of the ones offered by Mutter (of Wayland/Gnome3) and different of those offered by Weston.

That's WHY I believe it's quite wrong to say "Wayland is not ready" because there is no such thing like The Wayland Server.

You may say "Wayland/Plasma5 is not ready", or "Wayland/Gnome3 is not ready" , or "Sway is not ready" but NOT that "Wayland is not ready" because it's wrong.

tramtrist · 12-30-2021, 05:41 PM

It's true some things are harder to find than others in Wayland and takes some adjusting to but.. for my workflow it has hasnt let me down in 2 years.
The screen tearing in X alone wont let me go back.