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Old 12-23-2017, 06:56 AM   #46
LuckyCyborg
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It is just Consumerism: buy more, buy often, who care you need that or not.
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:20 PM   #47
a4z
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Darth, what you call the single way to do it is not the single way, you ignore huge parts or the reality, nuff said about your experts knowledge.
And of course you, one more, ignore the main topic, that is, multilib as part of standard 64bit Slackware. Not killing 32 bit, we had this now several times, wo why do you warm it up again? Just to produce text?

LuckyCyborg, your contribution to this thread has no technical aspect at all, therefor fulminate stupid phrases that have nothing to do with any reality, welcome on my ignore list
I feel somehow sorry for Darth to have such a new fanboy
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:41 PM   #48
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
Darth, what you call the single way to do it is not the single way, you ignore huge parts or the reality, nuff said about your experts knowledge.
And of course you, one more, ignore the main topic, that is, multilib as part of standard 64bit Slackware. Not killing 32 bit, we had this now several times, wo why do you warm it up again? Just to produce text?
Dear A4Z, looks like you are one who does not figure out the reality.

OK, let's talk technically, as I am one of those who know how to do multilib.

First of all, let's ignore Arch's meta-packages, they have dependency resolution in PACMAN and that meta-package installs tons of other packages.

Let's talk about Slackware Multilib? How you believe it is implemented?

We have special multilib builds for GLIBC and GCC, then what?

Like I said, for every multilib package, you need two builds: one for x86_64 and one for i586. For every one of them.

How you combine later that in a single or multiple package series, this is another tale.

BUT essentially your work is similar with maintaining also a specific i586 port, just like Eric said.

This way do any other distribution which go multilib, only that Eric reuse the existent and well tested i586 packages made by Patrick.

Secondly, depending on arch, the software may or may not present specific bugs. See no more than that long thread about 32-bit kernels, essentially. So, testing should be careful for every arch.

Finally, you obtain a x86_64 operating system, doubled as size probably (20G for Slackware?) which essentially cannot run in a pure 32-bit processor, only on 64-bit ones. Because its 64-bit kernel.

Those who run on x86_64 has the 32-bit features, BUT for those having pure 32-bit processors, for them is end of story, no more releases compatible with their pure 32-bit processors. Finish. Kaput. Final End.

That's WHY also I believe that the guys who have (for example) four computers, all of them with no 64-bit features, will not be so happy about your proposal, because no future Slackware release will work for them. Literally the kernels will not boot.

Essentially you exclude them from the poll.

-----------------------------------

As final, those x86_64 fans who hope at a i586 put-down in favor of a Slackware true multilib, BE WARNED:
- Patrick said multiple times that he will not go multilib and he and others from team explained that they see the (far?) future Slackware as PURE x86_64.
- Eric said clear that in the day Patrick put down the i586, he will put down also the Multilib support. No questions accepted.
- Eric said clear that he will NOT maintain a i586 port, after Patrick will put down it.
- You will end with PURE x86_64, you like or not.

Myself I do not use multilib anyway and I will not be affected. BUT your cute Wine and Steam will be.

Be smart guys and go PURE x86_64, if do not want to risk to see no more support for your beloved Multilib, OR use i586 too and give reasons for Patrick to keep this arch.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 12-23-2017 at 01:26 PM.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 01:21 PM   #49
a4z
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Darth, when you are such an expert than you should know that you do not build every package as 32bit on a multilib system. it is up to the distribution to provide a sane base of 32bit packages like most distributions in the world do it, and also those for which no 32bit port does not exist anymore.

But I see, my dear friend Darth Vader, for you its not about technical facts here, you try to prove yourself somehow correct, jumping between topics, start sentences with ignore those facts, and so on. This becomes a little embarrassing, I know you will at least add one more message, very likely with the same salami tactic text blobs you used above, but since you need it for your ego, feel free do to so.

for others, please, get back on topic, I would appreciate that people stop posting stuff that has nothing to do with multilib per default in Slackware64.
I think I will mark this as solved anyway, since our BDFL has no statement for multilib, what means I expect no changes, so I will use the upcoming holidays to install something different and future save on my presentation notebook, and all the devs that I have shown that Slackware still exists will not see it anymore and order t shirts for a different shop. This makes me somehow sad.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 01:37 PM   #50
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Dear A4Z, now I am the bad guy here because I said some facts?

Long story short, I only explained you that those guys see even the (far?) future of Slackware as PURE x86_64, even after they will put down i586 (which honestly I will not be happy to happen).

And that that Multilib will exists only that time exists also the Slackware i586 too.

At the end of day, my power of decision in Slackware is next to zero. They decide, not me.

BUT, I am intelligent enough to see what they want and in what direction they beat the horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
Patrick has repeatedly stated that Slackware64 will not become a multilib solution. And as long as there is a (large) part of the world where old hardware is all they have, a 32bit distro will be welcomed. So there is still an audience for 32bit Slackware, especially so because other distros are closing the door on these people.

I personally believe that 32bit software has a limited lifespan, and future Slackware releases may switch to 64bit only. When that time comes, I will also stop providing multilib packages because there are will no longer be original 32bit Slackware packages that I can convert. And I am not going to maintain a 32bit spin-off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi View Post
Even if we dropped 32-bit support entirely, for reasons of compatibility we would probably continue forward with --libdir=/usr/lib64.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 12-23-2017 at 02:17 PM.
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 02:55 PM   #51
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis82 View Post
If you mean Virtualbox, it itself needs multilib to enable software virtualization for 32 bit guests.
No, I meant something like qemu which (according to this thread) will work without multilib.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 03:02 PM   #52
Darth Vader
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I am very sure you can run a 32-bit OS of choice (even Windows XP) with all its shiny drivers, in the VMware Player under PURE x86_64. I do myself that.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 12-23-2017 at 03:03 PM.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 03:12 PM   #53
LuckyCyborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
LuckyCyborg, your contribution to this thread has no technical aspect at all, therefor fulminate stupid phrases that have nothing to do with any reality, welcome on my ignore list
I have 4 computers: 2 desktops and two netbooks, all of them 32 bits only. They cannot run Slackware64, even with multilib.

And you propose to Slackware maintainers to end the support for them, to simplify your own life. How you want me to react? With applause?

https://ark.intel.com/products/27472...Hz-800-MHz-FSB

This is one of my processors, bought one year ago. I should dump on recycle bin this perfectly functional LGA-775 Pentium 4 560 processor, which do his job well?

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 12-23-2017 at 03:29 PM.
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:20 PM   #54
LuckyCyborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z View Post
for others, please, get back on topic, I would appreciate that people stop posting stuff that has nothing to do with multilib per default in Slackware64.
Why you aren't honest? This thread is about abandoning the 32 bits Slackware in favor of multilib.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 12-23-2017 at 03:21 PM.
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:05 PM   #55
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
https://ark.intel.com/products/27472...Hz-800-MHz-FSB

This is one of my processors, bought one year ago. I should dump on recycle bin this perfectly functional LGA-775 Pentium 4 560 processor, which do his job well?
You bought a computer a year ago with tech from 2004?

I bought a 64bit AMD Athlon 5350 ($55) with a micro-itx motherboard ($42) and 8GB of RAM ($43) for under $150 2 years ago to upgrade my HTPC. That CPU would vastly outperform yours and uses substantially less power and includes a GPU on the CPU. What was your reasoning for buying a CPU that was 12 years old at the time you bought it?

NOTE: I am not suggesting we end 32bit Slackware, I'm just curious why you would buy something so ancient when there's other reasonably priced, vastly superior alternatives. My last 32bit CPU purchase was in 2004 with my AMD Athlon XP 3200+. My next CPU purchase was in 2008 when I bought my AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (which was "yesterdays" technology since AMD had already introduced the Phenom processors). Even the laptop I bought for $300 in 2011 was 64bit with one of the first (crappy) iterations of Nvidia Optimus (Intel and Nvidia graphics).
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:29 PM   #56
Darth Vader
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@bassmadrigal

I try to be as gentle as possible and to avoid the politics at all costs.

That's why I suggest you only to look in a map where's Karelia, where live our friend.

Then please respond me: do you really think Intel and AMD are rushed to sell the latest technology there?

BTW, an YES or NO is enough as response.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 12-23-2017 at 04:53 PM.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 04:56 PM   #57
LuckyCyborg
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Yeah, I am one of the bad red guys, who buy ancient technology as brand new.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 04:57 PM   #58
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
@bassmadrigal

I try to be as gentle as possible and to avoid the politics at all costs.

That's why I suggest you only to look in a map where's Karelia, where live our friend.

Then please respond me: do you really think Intel and AMD are so rushed to sell the latest technology there?

BTW, an YES or NO is enough as response.
They don't have their location listed on their profile, so I'm not going to go through their post history and find out where they live. But is that republic so far behind that they're selling 12 year old tech as new? I imagine Lucky got it used and for a deal, but even then, there was likely better tech that was reasonably priced available.

When my AM2+ motherboard went out last year, I couldn't even find a replacement that wasn't astronomically priced. It forced me to move away from my AMD Athlon64 X2 processor. I can't imagine that Prescott hardware is readily available, even in locations like that.

And your "yes" or "no" request doesn't work here, because even if Intel or AMD aren't pushing their "latest" technology there, there's no way they're pushing 12 year old tech either. But maybe you should let Lucky answer my very reasonable questions... maybe that is all that was available there, but I'd rather hear it from them instead of you suggesting that the country is stuck in decade old tech when it may not be.
 
Old 12-23-2017, 05:01 PM   #59
LuckyCyborg
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@bassmadrigal

That is all that was available there at a reasonable price. There are also much more "modern" ones, but they are expensive.

In the Russian Federation the American goods tend to be expensive. A luxury.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 12-23-2017 at 05:11 PM.
 
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:19 PM   #60
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
I bought a 64bit AMD Athlon 5350 ($55) with a micro-itx motherboard ($42) and 8GB of RAM ($43) for under $150 2 years ago to upgrade my HTPC.
I do not know why, but in my mind the idea is that your HTPC is really good to watch porn, but it can very well guide a battery of anti-aerial guns ...

I hope now you see the light.
 
  


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