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Yes. The fact that I can't have ONE operating system that accomplishes everything is constrictive! If Ubuntu works with my Sound Card and not my Video Card, and Fedora works with my Video Card and not my Sound Card, that's constrictive any way you cut it!
I just find it funny how Linux is so superior to Windows, yet most of the applications that run on Linux are suspiciously similar to their Windows counterparts... as if to say, "Windows sucks! But, we'll be happy to steal your ideas..." And, if it's free, it's not infringing. Hey, I could make a carbon copy of Win XP and give it away, and it's not infringing on anything if I'm not making a profit. All's I'm saying is that whoever developed these Linux apps OBVIOUSLY stole the idea.
Why don't I ask people who work in the field all day? That's like asking "Global Warming Scientists" their opinion on Global Warming. Of course Linux people are going to agree that Linux is superior. If they thought Linux sucked, they wouldn't be working in the Linux field all day, would they? I just turned down a $4,000 annual promotion because the new job required I work in Linux all day. Screw that! I'd much rather ask the consensus of Personal Computer owners that are choosing to spend $200 to run Windows rather than pay nothing to run Linux.
Actually, I'll tell you what. I'll redo my search since it's been a while, but I'll put forth an honest search for a good Linux build, and if I can find one who can run all my messengers, play Youtube videos and work with ALL my hardware devices (INCLUDING MY FREAKING PRINTER), I'll shut up about it. I'll tell you what; I won't even expect it to run my Playstation2 controller to USB adapter.
Ok so in your words Linux is superior yet the apps are suspiciously similar ? Well maybe the "superiority" lies with the OS and not the applications then ? Which is what Linux is if you had not noticed, it is an operating system. If Adobe wants to make a version of photoshop for Linux or Microsoft advertises that Office or IE will run on Linux do you think some Linux control group is going to tell them no, you can't do that ?
Actually the fact that a product is free has nothing to do with infringement. You could make a carbon copy of Windows XP and you'd be in court the rest of your life whether you gave it away or sold it.
A lot of the anti-Microsoft crowd has hatred towards their business practices not 100% of their products.
"stealing ideas" ? You think Bill Gates was the first person to come up with a windowed gui ? You should take a history course.
Of course you would rather ask a Windows user, most of the support your side. I wouldn't take a new job that required me to do a lot of Microsoft support, but that's because I like to avoid headaches at work, not because of some vendetta or because I am scared or can't learn Windows.
You can do whatever search or soul quest you want, it doesn't affect me. It's not that hard to find distro that will support your hardware and I have yet to find one that didn't play youtube or run an instant messenger. For your printer, it depends on the printer. If the manufacturer of the printer won't release linux drivers and won't provide the specs for the linux community to build their own drivers, who is at fault ? If your printer doesn't work under Vista because the manufacturer won't release drivers, who is at fault ? If your printer won't work on OS X because the manufacturer won't release drivers, who is at fault ?
Ok so in your words Linux is superior yet the apps are suspiciously similar ? Well maybe the "superiority" lies with the OS and not the applications then ? Which is what Linux is if you had not noticed, it is an operating system. If Adobe wants to make a version of photoshop for Linux or Microsoft advertises that Office or IE will run on Linux do you think some Linux control group is going to tell them no, you can't do that ?
No, I'm not saying I think Linux is superior... I'm saying that "according to those who claim Linux is superior." I don't think Linux is superior in any way. That's what my post is all about.
I hope you're not saying Adobe made GIMP. I'm sure I'm misunderstanding that. GIMP is developed by Linux volunteers under the GNU license. See, since Linux is free, nobody can pay for the license for Adobe to make a Linux Photoshop. So, Linux developers just made a ripoff version so they could continue to give Linux away... just like Open Office is to MS Office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn9ke_eyes
Actually the fact that a product is free has nothing to do with infringement. You could make a carbon copy of Windows XP and you'd be in court the rest of your life whether you gave it away or sold it.
A lot of the anti-Microsoft crowd has hatred towards their business practices not 100% of their products.
Possibly, but there are ways around making a carbon copy of something without infringing. Take "Windows" out of it, change the code just enough, and you have a "different" OS that isn't infringing on anything. In China, there are theme parks with characters that look almost exactly like Disney characters. China claims they're not supposed to represent Disney characters, but a boy mouse and girl mouse with identical clothing to Mickey and Minnie, a dog with big floppy shoes and a yellow bear with a red t-shirt is obviously a ripoff. That is almost exactly what Linux is. It is Windows for people who want to use Windows and not admit it... Just like Ripoff Disney in China is for people who want to live in Communism and enjoy the fruits of Capitalism. I'm sorry, that's my opinion, and I think people like that are hypocrites. If you don't like MS's biz practices, that's fine. But, don't act like they suck and then perpetuate their ideas. That's like an animal rights activist complaining about the meat industry and justifying eating meat by saying, "Well, if the animal's already dead..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn9ke_eyes
"stealing ideas" ? You think Bill Gates was the first person to come up with a windowed gui ? You should take a history course.
...didn't say that. But, so what. The market determined Windows to be the definitive OS of the modern era. I'm a capitalist. Sorry. If people don't like it, they can switch to Linux or buy a Mac. But as long as people DO like it, I'm not going to deny Gates' place on the free market and act like an inferior product is a superior because I have a vendetta against "the man."
And if Gates "stole" the idea of a Windowed GUI and that's your beef with MS, what are you doing using Linux anyway? Shouldn't you be running some primitive form of command line OS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn9ke_eyes
Of course you would rather ask a Windows user, most of the support your side. I wouldn't take a new job that required me to do a lot of Microsoft support, but that's because I like to avoid headaches at work, not because of some vendetta or because I am scared or can't learn Windows.
Yes, exactly! If I liked Linux, I wouldn't act like I didn't like it. I don't like Linux because I don't like it. Not because of some politically motivated charge. No offense, but it sounds like that's YOUR vendetta against Microsoft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn9ke_eyes
You can do whatever search or soul quest you want, it doesn't affect me. It's not that hard to find distro that will support your hardware and I have yet to find one that didn't play youtube or run an instant messenger. For your printer, it depends on the printer. If the manufacturer of the printer won't release linux drivers and won't provide the specs for the linux community to build their own drivers, who is at fault ? If your printer doesn't work under Vista because the manufacturer won't release drivers, who is at fault ? If your printer won't work on OS X because the manufacturer won't release drivers, who is at fault ?
Please let me know what distro I should try. I'm all about learning new stuff. And when I say "works with my hardware," I'm not talking about it working with my hardware after weeks of searching online for a message board post that actually works.
At any rate, why is it the Printer Manufacturer's fault? If I write up a crude OS in my basement that only I use, and Lexmark doesn't release drivers for my OS, why is that Lexmark's fault? Lexmark releases drivers for Windows and Mac because they know most of their customers will expect to use their product on Win and Mac. The reason Lexmark won't release drivers for every flavor of Linux is existence is because there isn't enough manpower in the world to program different drivers for the million different distributions of a sucky operating system that most people don't use. Most hardware and software manufacturers feel the same way, and that's why most hardware drivers for Linux are jimmy-rigged in someone's bedroom! Going back to one point I was making, maybe if the so-called Linux "Community" got together and decided on ONE operating system, more manufacturers and more of the market would take Linux seriously.
Last edited by Shonenknife_@msn.com; 07-20-2007 at 11:32 AM.
No, I'm not saying I think Linux is superior... I'm saying that "according to those who claim Linux is superior." I don't think Linux is superior in any way. That's what my post is all about.
I hope you're not saying Adobe made GIMP. I'm sure I'm misunderstanding that. GIMP is developed by Linux volunteers under the GNU license. See, since Linux is free, nobody can pay for the license for Adobe to make a Linux Photoshop. So, Linux developers just made a ripoff version so they could continue to give Linux away... just like Open Office is to MS Office.
Possibly, but there are ways around making a carbon copy of something without infringing. Take "Windows" out of it, change the code just enough, and you have a "different" OS that isn't infringing on anything. In China, there are theme parks with characters that look almost exactly like Disney characters. China claims they're not supposed to represent Disney characters, but a boy mouse and girl mouse with identical clothing to Mickey and Minnie, a dog with big floppy shoes and a yellow bear with a red t-shirt is obviously a ripoff. That is almost exactly what Linux is. It is Windows for people who want to use Windows and not admit it... Just like Ripoff Disney in China is for people who want to live in Communism and enjoy the fruits of Capitalism. I'm sorry, that's my opinion, and I think people like that are hypocrites. If you don't like MS's biz practices, that's fine. But, don't act like they suck and then perpetuate their ideas. That's like an animal rights activist complaining about the meat industry and justifying eating meat by saying, "Well, if the animal's already dead..."
...didn't say that. But, so what. The market determined Windows to be the definitive OS of the modern era. I'm a capitalist. Sorry. If people don't like it, they can switch to Linux or buy a Mac. But as long as people DO like it, I'm not going to deny Gates' place on the free market and act like an inferior product is a superior because I have a vendetta against "the man."
And if Gates "stole" the idea of a Windowed GUI and that's your beef with MS, what are you doing using Linux anyway? Shouldn't you be running some primitive form of command line OS?
Yes, exactly! If I liked Linux, I wouldn't act like I didn't like it. I don't like Linux because I don't like it. Not because of some politically motivated charge. No offense, but it sounds like that's YOUR vendetta against Microsoft.
Please let me know what distro I should try. I'm all about learning new stuff. And when I say "works with my hardware," I'm not talking about it working with my hardware after weeks of searching online for a message board post that actually works.
At any rate, why is it the Printer Manufacturer's fault? If I write up a crude OS in my basement that only I use, and Lexmark doesn't release drivers for my OS, why is that Lexmark's fault? Lexmark releases drivers for Windows and Mac because they know most of their customers will expect to use their product on Win and Mac. The reason Lexmark won't release drivers for every flavor of Linux is existence is because there isn't enough manpower in the world to program different drivers for the million different distributions of a sucky operating system that most people don't use. Most hardware and software manufacturers feel the same way, and that's why most hardware drivers for Linux are jimmy-rigged in someone's bedroom! Going back to one point I was making, maybe if the so-called Linux "Community" got together and decided on ONE operating system, more manufacturers and more of the market would take Linux seriously.
Superior - If linux is not superior in "any way" then why are so many people using it ? Why is Microsoft losing market share in the server space ? Are speed, security, and stability not superior qualities ?
Applications - Your statement makes no sense. The cost of the operating system has NOTHING AT ALL to do with whether Adobe makes a product. Microsoft didn't pay Adobe a fee to make photoshop for windows. Adobe makes what they want and people either buy it or they don't. GIMP developers made their software to manipulate images in Linux, not to rip someone off. Again the price of the operating system has nothing to do with it.
Disney - There is a big difference between copying a mouse character and copying millions of lines of code and changing them just a little. Linux is for people who want to use a computer not for people who want to use Windows and don't want to admit it ? Why would someone not want to admit it ? Windows is not the same thing as a computer. Linux is not even close to a rip off of Windows. If it was Microsoft would be crying foul and carrying people off to court. Linux is much closer to Unix than windows.
There is nothing wrong with capitalism and the market will bear out which product is superior. So if you know Windows is superior, then why are you coming to a linux board trying to convince us ?
I don't think you should try any distro, I think you should keep using windows because that is what you want to use. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't know why you are here complaining about linux. If you don't like Linux, that's fine, don't use it. Just because you have a hard time with it doesn't mean it sucks for everyone else, otherwise no one would use it.
Printer - If there isn't enough manpower in the world to make the drivers then how come I use HP printers everyday, including scanning and faxing features ? You are right that Lexmark will make drivers if there is demand for it. That's why I and others create demand by voting with our wallets and buying printers and products that work well with Linux. Eventually this will lead to more linux support or not, only time will tell.
I'm not going to continue to argue with you because your statements are false and illogical. You don't know anything about linux except that it is "free". You don't know what an operating system consists of or what licensing has to do with any of it. You don't know anything about copyright or intellectual property or any of the laws that keep ripoffs from happening. If you want to learn, go out and do your own research about what is happening in the real world with millions of people not your classmates.
If you don't like linux, don't use it. I'm not posting "windows sucks" comments to a microsoft board so why are you here ? If you can't see an advantage to linux, that's fine with me, don't use it. I have friends that use macs or windows because they fit what they need. I use linux and so do millions of other people because it fits what we need. Most of the people on this board are making a genuine effort to use linux because they see an advantage to it. I'd rather try to help those people than waste my time on someone who doesn't want my help but just wants to argue.
That's like an animal rights activist complaining about the meat industry and justifying eating meat by saying, "Well, if the animal's already dead..."
well, ... no i don't think that would help here. But anyway: you remind me a lot of an slaughter, who goes to an animal rights group to tell them how bad they all are. what's the point?
Shonenknife, where did you get the idea that because GNU/Linux is free you can't run commercial software on it? Ever heard of Maya or Oracle or IBM DB2? It is true that the GPL evangelists have an annoying habit of whining at anyone who releases software on Linux to GPL it, but that is another story. And you obviously haven't used GIMP or Photoshop very much if you think GIMP is a carbon copy of Photoshop. Photoshop is a far better program, which is why people still pay good money for Photoshop 7.0, the last version that runs without problems on Wine. GIMP is slowly improving though, but if it were purely a Photoshop clone it would have a much better UI, for one thing .
Y'all are right... What am I doing in here? Linux sucks and that's all there is to it. If the market determines Linux is better, Linux will prevail and the support will be there for it and it won't suck anymore.
Until then, I'm not going to sit back and act like it's better than Windows because of some jaded political motivation.
Linux sucks! Period! ...and here's some links that may enlighten you to such fact...
Oh, and the day that I run a freaking server in my apartment, I guess I'll see how Linux is such a god operating system and Windows is so horrible. "Oh, all hail Linux! The crappy operating system with no support and is impossible to work with! The simple mortals know not of your power, all mighty penguin! Windows is but the devil incarnate!" All I asked for is someone to point me to a decent Linux distro that's going to work with all my stuff, and nobody here can do that apparently.
I didn't WANT to use Linux in my class. I didn't even WANT a Linux class! I HATE Linux!!! It freaking SUCKS! I hope the Microsoft butterfly morphs into Mothra and stomps that shitty little communist penguin into the ground!
Last edited by Shonenknife_@msn.com; 07-21-2007 at 11:03 AM.
Interesting how a thread which explains how to install a piece of software has turned into one person's battle against inadequacy. Google for the excellent article "Linux is not Windows". I was going to split the off-topic stuff off, but frankly it'll be too much work.
To dev8080: if you wish to, please repost your thread as a Tutorial, it will stop the noise and will prevent it being pushed right down and being lost.
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