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View Poll Results: Should Pat just drop KDE?
Yes 45 23.56%
No 122 63.87%
Undecided or don't care 24 12.57%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-09-2019, 02:50 PM   #76
ZhaoLin1457
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Better that "when" to happen in the near future, "if" even happens...

If we will still debate this "issue" for a year, or two, we will have the surprise that Plasma5 is already abandoned and obsolete, just like KDE4.

Or could be about a "when" like in "when the pigs will fly" or "when Jesus will return" ?

Last edited by ZhaoLin1457; 10-09-2019 at 02:54 PM.
 
Old 10-09-2019, 02:54 PM   #77
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 View Post
Better that "when" to happen in the near future, "if" even happens...

If we still debate this "issue' for a year, or two, we will have the surprise that Plasma5 is already abandoned and obsolete, just like KDE4.

Or could be about a "when" like in "when the pigs will fly" or "when Jesus will return" ?
I remember why I put you on my ignore list, your contributions add no value and are nothing but abrasive. Mistake to clean out my ignore list, so there you go, back on. PLONK!
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:08 PM   #78
ZhaoLin1457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
I remember why I put you on my ignore list, your contributions add no value and are nothing but abrasive. Mistake to clean out my ignore list, so there you go, back on. PLONK!
OK, I apologize for the claim that if Plasma5 will be merged, is better to be merged in the near future, certainly before its natural end of life.

https://www.qt.io/blog/2019/08/07/technical-vision-qt-6

That was from August, this year.

The Qt6 is coming...

Last edited by ZhaoLin1457; 10-09-2019 at 03:10 PM.
 
Old 10-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #79
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 View Post
The Qt6 is coming...
quote of the document you linked to:
Quote:
we’re aiming to have Qt 6.0 ready for a first release by the end of 2020
That's only if the their aim is reached and I very much doubt that Pat will ship a .0 version just released. So Qt6 will certainly not be ready when Slackware 15 will be released if that happens in 2020, or even at the beginning of 2021.

PS Maybe Pat considers shipping Qt 5.15 LTS when it will be released and accordingly waits for that before releasing Slackware 15 and/or switching to Qt5 thus Plasma 5? Pure speculation, of course.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 10-09-2019 at 04:14 PM.
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:37 PM   #80
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 View Post
OK, I apologize for the claim that if Plasma5 will be merged, is better to be merged in the near future, certainly before its natural end of life.

https://www.qt.io/blog/2019/08/07/technical-vision-qt-6

That was from August, this year.

The Qt6 is coming...
If you read that, it strongly implies that KDE devs may not need to release "Plasma6" when QT6 is used, although they might need to do some tweaking...

Quote:
Qt 6 will be a continuation of what we have been doing in the Qt 5 series and should as such not be disruptive to our users. -snip- As described in more detail below, Qt 6 will aim for a large degree of compatibility with the Qt 5 series.

Our goal with Qt 6 has to be to better integrate with this functionality, without losing backward compatibility.
And further on they have a whole section about compatibility with QT5...

Quote:
Compatibility with Qt 5 and incremental improvements

Compatibility with older versions is extremely important and is a major requirement when we develop Qt 6. There are billions of lines of code written using our framework and any incompatible change we do will thus have a cost for our users. Furthermore, the more work the change to Qt 6 requires from our users the slower the adoption will be, which leads to more cost on our side to maintain the last version of Qt 5.

As such, we should aim to avoid breaking Qt in a way that triggers compile-time or runtime errors in our users’ codebase. If we must break compatibility, a compile-time error is preferable over a silent breakage at runtime (as those are much harder to detect).

While we do need to remove certain deprecated parts of Qt, we need to ensure that our users have the functionality they require. That implies that key functionality, such as Qt Widgets and other parts used by a large portion of our users, will, of course, stay available.

We are planning for many incremental improvements to our core classes and functionality that we could not do in the Qt 5 series. The aim is to keep full source compatibility, but as we can break binary compatibility with Qt 6, we can do quite a lot of cleanups and improvements that couldn’t be done within Qt 5.

Nevertheless, we need to move forward, and some house cleaning is required with Qt 6. We will remove most functionality (functions, classes or modules) that have been deprecated in Qt 5. This house cleaning will help free up our developers’ time in the longer term and allow us to have more focus on the maintained and current codebase.

Porting away from those deprecated parts does however need to be as simple as possible and our users can ideally do this incrementally using Qt 5.15 LTS. Our goal should be that Qt 6 is compatible enough with Qt 5.15 LTS so that one can easily maintain a large code base that can compile against both versions at the same time.
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:49 PM   #81
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
quote of the document you linked to:That's only if the their aim is reached and I very much doubt that Pat will ship a .0 version just released. So Qt6 will certainly not be ready when Slackware 15 will be released if that happens in 2020, or even at the beginning of 2021.

PS Maybe Pat considers shipping Qt 5.15 LTS when it will be released and accordingly waits for that before releasing Slackware 15 and/or switching to Qt5 thus Plasma 5? Pure speculation, of course.
This was pointed out to him in a different thread...He clearly does not listen or has selective reading.
Ref: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post6045117

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 10-09-2019 at 04:51 PM.
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:05 PM   #82
Skaendo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
Apparently you do not use MS Windows?
I have to use Windows 10 (and before that, Windows 7) at work and run KDE Plasma5 at home on desktop and laptop. I can assure you, Plasma5 does in no way look like, or behave like, Windows. Their respective UIX teams may have partly overlapping User Interface Guidelines but their implementations are vastly different.
Back when I first tried out your KDE5 (and don't get me wrong, I appreciate your work on KDE and everything else) I was hanging out on a Windows forum every once in a while and it was shortly after Windows 10 came out. (Pre-RTM)

There was a wallpaper that Windows was using that was like a field of snow with a path or something, and KDE had something similar. All I had to do was change the wallpaper on KDE to the Windows one, then I told everyone there that it was Windows 10, and everyone fell for it.

Literally the only thing that I did was change the wallpaper. The ugly flat monochrome icons (that for some reason are popular these days) were almost exactly the same.

But I mean that's not my only issue with Windows 10. I could go on and rant about it for hours, but I will spare everyone. (Policy, menus, ugly UI, etc.)

PS: I still have 2 desktops that run Windows 7, a laptop that runs Vista (my favorite Windows) and a laptop that runs Windows 2000. The Windows 7 desktops are used daily, the others, well not so much. I refuse to run Windows 10 on any of my hardware.

BONUS:
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Last edited by Skaendo; 10-09-2019 at 07:34 PM. Reason: spelling
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:17 PM   #83
TheTKS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaendo View Post
And KDE5 looks too much like Winblowz for my taste.
We must be looking at different KDE5s.

I use Win10 all day, every day at work.

At home I've used KDE5 via Kubuntu (it's wiped now) and Eric's LiveSlak, lightly customized, enough to get a feel for how they work for me.

They look and feel very different to me, and when I can I will use KDE or Xfce on Linux or BSD rather than Windows.

TKS
 
Old 10-09-2019, 07:38 PM   #84
darkstar61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaendo View Post

There was a wallpaper that Windows was using that was like a field of snow with a path or something, and KDE had something similar. All I had to do was change the wallpaper on KDE to the Windows one, then I told everyone there that it was Windows 10, and everyone fell for it.
send this one...
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:05 PM   #85
Skaendo
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In all honestly I don't care either way, I don't install KDE from the start and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
 
Old 10-09-2019, 08:41 PM   #86
jr_bob_dobbs
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I don't use KDE itself but I use several programs that are part of or depend on KDE.
 
Old 10-09-2019, 10:16 PM   #87
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philanc View Post
I think several people consider that the blocking factor for a new Slackware release is this big KDE5+Qt5 thing. They may think that without KDE, it would be easier to issue a release. They may be wrong -- we just don't know.

Now, regarding the negative impact on the Slackware Community, several users have highligthed that 14.2 doesn't work on recent laptops because of the ageing kernel. Some may want to switch to other distros to be able to use their new laptop, potential new users may decide to pass, considering KDE4+Qt4 and the lack of apparent movement, etc. (these arguments have been rehashed to death in other thread)

So yes, too long a release delay may also negatively impact the community.

The short comment by Pat ("not if but when") is already a precious bit of answer, and we all can see how just this has changed the tone in the thread. So I think a bit more info from Pat about what are the major delaying factors would help a lot.
Firstly, thank you for remaining gentlemanly while having a POV that is less than the majority. It's really easy to get defensive online and that you didn't deserves respect. You have some of mine.

I do need to ask a probing question however. Do you actually think installing and switching to another distro is easier and faster than compiling a new kernel?

I may be very biased since I compile new ones rather a lot which also means I haven't tried it but what's there to stop a user from trying a newer kernel from -Current in 14.2? AFAIK it should work just fine with only minor adjustments. Shoot! Even though I routinely have at least 4 working distros on my Main I'd sooner install a second copy of Slackware just to play with kernels and/or "slipstream" a new kernel into the install disk(s) than install and depend on a new distro for my Main.

As for prospective "potential new users", I'd wager given the "press" from the likes of just about everyone else out there including DistroWatch (whom you'd think would give respect at least for Slackware being the oldest "last man standing" and truest to original Linux concepts) that Slackware is old and hard, I seriously doubt the version of KDE and QT is going to be a deciding factor for them. Those that are seeking rock solid stability and understand Slackware is not designed nor maintained by committee (like everyone else) will still check us out and those that only care about "new and improved" (and probably "easy") will likely go to one of the *buntus or some rolling release.

Last edited by enorbet; 10-09-2019 at 10:21 PM.
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:19 PM   #88
montagdude
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I do need to ask a probing question however. Do you actually think installing and switching to another distro is easier and faster than compiling a new kernel?
For some people, probably. Distrohopping is a very widespread practice, and many people can install a distro but not do things that might be considered more "difficult" like building their own kernel. It's easy with a good guide to walk you through and a good config to start with, but many people don't know that, and the task may seem daunting at first.

Speaking of which, what happened to DUSK? Actually, anyone know what happened to Dave? I haven't heard from him in a long time. I hope he's okay.

Last edited by montagdude; 10-09-2019 at 11:20 PM.
 
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:21 PM   #89
Jeebizz
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I was about to add something to this discussion; but I don't have anything useful to add right now - just the fact that I am rather inebriated and I wanted to let that be known; - I don't care, this is my thread so I can do whatever I want .
 
Old 10-10-2019, 12:18 AM   #90
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 View Post
Or could be about a "when" like in "when the pigs will fly" or [....]
I stopped using that phrase as a tank platoon leader in the early 1980s.

Too many troops responded with "Hell, I saw some last night!"

I ended up using "When pigs howl at a full moon", which would confuse them long enough that I could stop the discussion and leave the AO.
 
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