LinuxQuestions.org
Share your knowledge at the LQ Wiki.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices


View Poll Results: Should Pat just drop KDE?
Yes 45 23.56%
No 122 63.87%
Undecided or don't care 24 12.57%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 10-08-2019, 08:55 PM   #31
SimonDevine
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2016
Location: Surrey, UK
Distribution: Slack 14.2 64 using KDE 4.14 on Acer Aspire M3900 i3 4GB RAM with Dell E1913 monitor 1280x1024@75Hz
Posts: 51

Rep: Reputation: 49

Definitely a NO.

Since first use of Slackware in 2001, I have been a KDE man. It was KDE 2.x in Slackware 8.1 and it was the only DE that I felt I could work with

Skipping forward 15 years and in the last 3 years I still can't get to grips with the other DE's.

Have tried Mate, Cinnamon, XFCE, and a host of others but KDE is to me the only one that has everything that fits my needs.

Yes, this is a personal view, but Slackware does cater for all Linux users, and does so very well by being so all inclusive.

Please keep it.

 
4 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-08-2019, 09:28 PM   #32
frankbell
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Distribution: Slackware, Ubuntu MATE, Mageia, and whatever VMs I happen to be playing with
Posts: 15,457
Blog Entries: 25

Rep: Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449
Quote:
however I was merely speculating that perhaps KDE might have been getting bigger and perhaps more difficult to maintain, but that does not appear to be the case.
In a recent issue of Linux Magazine, there was an item (unfortunately, it's not online) in which various DEs were compared. In contrast to the conventional wisdom, Plasma was found to be one of the lightest-weight DEs, lighter than XFCE even. I wish I could provide a link, but I can't.

If you want, I can dig through my back issues and give you an MLA style citation. Might take me a couple of days.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-08-2019, 09:35 PM   #33
cwizardone
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2007
Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" & Xfce.
Posts: 4,908
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315Reputation: 2315
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
In a recent issue of Linux Magazine, there was an item (unfortunately, it's not online) in which various DEs were compared. In contrast to the conventional wisdom, Plasma was found to be one of the lightest-weight DEs, lighter than XFCE even........
How did they define, "light"?
 
Old 10-08-2019, 09:36 PM   #34
tramtrist
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2018
Location: Cincinnati USA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 132

Rep: Reputation: 82
If you look through the thread that spawned this poll you'll find the question being whether or not the change from KDE versions is impacting the next version of Slackware. As it turns out, if you look at that thread, Pat mentioned KDE Plasma will happen .. the question is when.

This means there's no more debate about if KDE will continue in slackware through the next version. No more need to justify it
 
Old 10-08-2019, 09:41 PM   #35
frankbell
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Distribution: Slackware, Ubuntu MATE, Mageia, and whatever VMs I happen to be playing with
Posts: 15,457
Blog Entries: 25

Rep: Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449Reputation: 4449
Quote:
How did they define, "light"?
CPU usage.

You're going to make me look through my back issues, aren't you?
 
Old 10-08-2019, 09:44 PM   #36
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware14.2 64-Bit Desktop, Devuan 2.0 ASCII Toshiba Satellite Notebook
Posts: 2,736

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761
Dropping KDE

Well I guess the next question is should Slackware finally move on to Plasma, but I am not going to make another poll. Maybe Plasma might be not as heavy as I might think, but maybe it could be made lighter without Akonadi(I just really do not like Akonadi). If I were a big KDE user, I would now throw my and request that KDE4 be replaced with Plasma.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 10-08-2019 at 10:22 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-08-2019, 09:56 PM   #37
montagdude
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2016
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,584

Rep: Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220Reputation: 1220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
If Pat drops KDE4, and will not add a base layer of support for Plasma5 (most notoriously Qt5 and then recompile all the packages that can use qt5) then I think the future of my 'ktown' repository of Plasma5 packages is doomed.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Do you really think there's a chance Slackware 15 could be released without Qt5? There's just so much that depends on it nowadays, it seems crazy not to include it in a general purpose distro. On the other hand, Pat is just one guy, and I understand that the workload just keeps increasing and will continue to do so. Kind of makes me wonder how viable the BDFL model is long-term.
 
Old 10-08-2019, 10:13 PM   #38
Timothy Miller
Moderator
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Arizona, USA
Distribution: Debian, KDE Neon, Arch, Void
Posts: 3,155

Rep: Reputation: 978Reputation: 978Reputation: 978Reputation: 978Reputation: 978Reputation: 978Reputation: 978Reputation: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
CPU usage.

You're going to make me look through my back issues, aren't you?
It started with KDE Plasma v5.12.0. With the 5.12.x series, Plasma dev's focused almost entirely on cleaning up and optimizing the code, instead of feature bloat. It made what was an OK desktop into a surprisingly svelte desktop (keeping in mind, it's still a fully featured desktop). Average RAM usage went down quite a large degree, and CPU usage went down a considerable amount as well. While overall (disk) size was only affected a negligible amount (and there were some features added during this time, so it was more than offset by that), KDE isn't the ram-swilling inefficient desktop that it was. The most impressive thing is how well KDE scales. Yeah, I boot up and at idle on my machines it's using 1 GB+ of ram by itself. Because I have 16 GB. My friend that has 4 GB boots up and it uses less than 400MB.
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-08-2019, 10:14 PM   #39
TracyTiger
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: California, USA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 494

Rep: Reputation: 237Reputation: 237Reputation: 237
Not That Simple

Quote:
Originally Posted by tramtrist View Post
... In Debian there's a minimalist install that will get you just enough to boot the system with all drivers necessary and then get you to the point you can add whatever else you need through packages and package management.
...
If Slackware had one more menu item which was 'minimum' install then it could meet the Debian criteria and possibly the BSD criteria through SBo etc
...
If PV made a 'minimum' install option during the install I'm pretty sure it would meet a server install AND/OR a pedantic arch type user who just wanted to install any packages they needed after that.
With Slackware and Slackbuilds.org I don't believe it's as simple as you describe. My understanding is that (currently) SBo packages assume a FULL INSTALLATION of a stable version of Slackware.

To use SBo as you describe would add more complexity and less stability. I believe your idea would be a major shift in the Slackware/SBo technical underpinnings.

If your idea was implemented then I believe the current relatively straight forward process of building/installing an SBO package would acquire many of the dependency problems found in some other operating systems / distributions.

Imagine you're creating a Slackbuild for SBo with the changes you suggest. What is the library/program environment that you are designing for? EXACTLY what is already installed? How much effort is needed to inspect or describe dependencies? How much additional effort is required for the user to install your package?

I believe one of the shining features of Slackware/SBo would be tarnished if this new idea was implemented.

These are just my thoughts as a Slackware enthusiast, based upon my understanding of things. Don't get too excited, and please tell me how I'm wrong on this. I want to improve my understanding of Slackware Linux.
 
Old 10-08-2019, 10:23 PM   #40
Poprocks
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 470

Rep: Reputation: 246Reputation: 246Reputation: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
I do not install KDE, so I suppose this is a moot point, however I was merely speculating that perhaps KDE might have been getting bigger and perhaps more difficult to maintain, but that does not appear to be the case. As for Pasma v. KDE4 I will now throw my in now, and perhaps say it is time that Slackware moves on to that. I would give Plasma a chance, but immediately what I run into and just do not like, is Akonadi. I wonder if there is a way to run without it.
Sure, just don't install the kdepim stuff. AlienBob's ktown Plasma5 packages make it really easy because they're neatly sorted into directories on his server.

I usually add:

Code:
SLACKPKGPLUS_.*kde\/kdepim
to my /etc/slackpkg/greylist file when using slackpkg+.

Last edited by Poprocks; 10-08-2019 at 10:24 PM. Reason: clarification
 
Old 10-08-2019, 10:54 PM   #41
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,450

Rep: Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479
Akonadi really isn't any big deal. KDE 4 and 5 both run just fine without it excepting a very few apps. Those apps include KJots, KAddressBook, KAlarm, KOrganizer, and KMail. Some of the digital clocks won't run with Akonadi removed. The difference in footprint however is negligible comparing with and without.

It seems to me that extremely few of the people who perceive KDE 4 or 5 as bloated and heavy just haven't tried and compared it. I can easily pare down KDE 4 to where it is substantially lighter in RAM and CPU usage than stock Xfce which is largely because as Slackware delivers KDE, the stock install is only a few percent heavier than Slackware's stock Xfce. I no longer own any machines that can feel any appreciable difference in performance between the two and that includes my ancient single core AMD FX-57 Asus A8NE 2GB boxen. There was a time when KDE 4 was actually shocking to me in it's sludginess, but that time was quite short. It was long enough though that many just bailed.

For my part I am comfortable in many WM/DEs but I really can't get along without several KDE apps so while I certainly wouldn't begrudge PV a decision to bail on Plasma, I'd have to workaround to have those apps and I suspect lean rather heavily on Eric's considerable expertise. I have spent a great deal of time both testing and keeping abreast of other distros for the past 20 years but lately I simply cannot imagine getting by without Slackware as my Main. Nothing I've tried has ever come close and lately they are all further and further away from what I want and need.

I originally tried Slackware on a recommendation that went like this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by several 1337 folks on Linuxsphere IRC
I dunno... on Slackware things just build right

Last edited by enorbet; 10-08-2019 at 11:02 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-08-2019, 11:58 PM   #42
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware14.2 64-Bit Desktop, Devuan 2.0 ASCII Toshiba Satellite Notebook
Posts: 2,736

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Akonadi really isn't any big deal. KDE 4 and 5 both run just fine without it excepting a very few apps. Those apps include KJots, KAddressBook, KAlarm, KOrganizer, and KMail. Some of the digital clocks won't run with Akonadi removed. The difference in footprint however is negligible comparing with and without.

It seems to me that extremely few of the people who perceive KDE 4 or 5 as bloated and heavy just haven't tried and compared it. I can easily pare down KDE 4 to where it is substantially lighter in RAM and CPU usage than stock Xfce which is largely because as Slackware delivers KDE, the stock install is only a few percent heavier than Slackware's stock Xfce. I no longer own any machines that can feel any appreciable difference in performance between the two and that includes my ancient single core AMD FX-57 Asus A8NE 2GB boxen. There was a time when KDE 4 was actually shocking to me in it's sludginess, but that time was quite short. It was long enough though that many just bailed.

For my part I am comfortable in many WM/DEs but I really can't get along without several KDE apps so while I certainly wouldn't begrudge PV a decision to bail on Plasma, I'd have to workaround to have those apps and I suspect lean rather heavily on Eric's considerable expertise. I have spent a great deal of time both testing and keeping abreast of other distros for the past 20 years but lately I simply cannot imagine getting by without Slackware as my Main. Nothing I've tried has ever come close and lately they are all further and further away from what I want and need.

I originally tried Slackware on a recommendation that went like this....
To be fair I have, against XFCE and LXDE, and LXDE won (at least for me). Given that LXDE is pretty much dead - and I am still not too keen on LXQT yet, I was considering XFCE or MATE as I rather like MATE actually - or even TDE (KDE 3). I am still curious about Plasma, and now that I know I can remove Akonadi then I might give it another go. I don't care for the apps listed as I use Thunderbird and do not really care for anything else - I just find Akonadi annoying as it takes up unnecessary amount of ram and opens a lot of instances of itself when I list processes running under KDE4 (maybe its different in Plasma?) , I don't know is just that whenever I run KDE4 the most number of process that I always see is Akonadi, which to me seems weird and not needed.

I know also that QT5 has been floated around in adopting that - may as well then. Again I largely stayed out of the "Is Plasma finally ready to be included in --Current" debate, but I feel perhaps at this point I do not see why it isn't; especially if it is holding back a potential release (if that is even a valid point - I do not know).

-edit

To clarify further, I would not even have to do anything. Just launching KDE4 and Akonadi is in the background for no reason IMO - with multiple instances. No thanks.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 10-09-2019 at 12:21 AM.
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-09-2019, 12:23 AM   #43
Skaendo
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2014
Location: West Texas, USA
Distribution: Slackware64-14.2
Posts: 994

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
When and if PV does decide to include KDE5 I just hope that he moves all the packages that only KDE depends on into the KDE folder like he has mentioned. That would make it much cleaner for those of us who don't use/install KDE.
 
8 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-09-2019, 01:20 AM   #44
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,450

Rep: Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479Reputation: 2479
Well Jeebizz, It is my position that people who choose other than KDE have every right to. I'd just prefer it if nobody felt the need to justify that choice based on an assumption that is no longer so and was only so for a short time. Since you seem to have some interest and an open mind, below I'm including two screenies I just made of KSysGuard displaying resource usage and the first is full system with zero reduction in services other than Bluetooth and Pulseaudio and the second only displaying Akonadi usage, no changes other than the filtered display. There are several instances of Akonadi exactly as you state but notice there is no cpu usage at all and the RAM is simply reserved and still totals roughly only 200KB. On my conky to the right you can see that Swap is at 0% which is where it is always even when running an intense video game with music playing in other apps including often a browser with Youtube just for the sound.

I can see how someone's work laptop might benefit from the integration of those akonadi-based comm, messaging, and scheduling apps but frankly I no longer need that, I just like the digital clock widget and the cost to have it is so small it's no sacrifice to me even though this box only sports 8GB RAM. I did once disable Akonadi to see and I just could feel no difference despite having Desktop animation speed cranked up to "Instant".

Anyway I thought you might find these real world stats interesting.

Full Size is HERE ----------

https://i.imgur.com/9WnoSI8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gX8BPBX.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	9WnoSI8m.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	12.0 KB
ID:	31483   Click image for larger version

Name:	gX8BPBXm.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	11.6 KB
ID:	31484  
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-09-2019, 03:28 AM   #45
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware14.2 64-Bit Desktop, Devuan 2.0 ASCII Toshiba Satellite Notebook
Posts: 2,736

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761Reputation: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Well Jeebizz, It is my position that people who choose other than KDE have every right to. I'd just prefer it if nobody felt the need to justify that choice based on an assumption that is no longer so and was only so for a short time. Since you seem to have some interest and an open mind, below I'm including two screenies I just made of KSysGuard displaying resource usage and the first is full system with zero reduction in services other than Bluetooth and Pulseaudio and the second only displaying Akonadi usage, no changes other than the filtered display. There are several instances of Akonadi exactly as you state but notice there is no cpu usage at all and the RAM is simply reserved and still totals roughly only 200KB. On my conky to the right you can see that Swap is at 0% which is where it is always even when running an intense video game with music playing in other apps including often a browser with Youtube just for the sound.

I can see how someone's work laptop might benefit from the integration of those akonadi-based comm, messaging, and scheduling apps but frankly I no longer need that, I just like the digital clock widget and the cost to have it is so small it's no sacrifice to me even though this box only sports 8GB RAM. I did once disable Akonadi to see and I just could feel no difference despite having Desktop animation speed cranked up to "Instant".

Anyway I thought you might find these real world stats interesting.

Full Size is HERE ----------

https://i.imgur.com/9WnoSI8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gX8BPBX.jpg
Thats fine , but seeing the screenshots only further enforce my views against Akonadi (process list) - but again now that I know I can play with KDE WITHOUT Akonadi I am willing to give it another chance - I will remember to removepkg kdepim logging into. As for animations - that can go too I don't need it. Which now brings me to an idea - if there are any further ways of slimming KDE I am interested, already again kdepim will go.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 10-09-2019 at 03:31 AM.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] dropping KDE to stabilize -current textillis Slackware 5 07-19-2013 02:08 PM
Red Hat 7.3 Telnet sessions dropping Dalma Linux - Networking 8 01-16-2003 03:04 PM
[Counter Strike Server] - dropping players Robert0380 Linux - Software 2 12-29-2002 07:41 PM
networking problems with redhat 7.3 - dropping workstations linux 7.3 Linux - Networking 4 11-07-2002 12:01 PM
Kmail Dropping letters???? shooter Linux - Newbie 0 12-03-2001 05:06 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration