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Old 07-24-2018, 06:19 PM   #136
Qury
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I would also happy to donate on a monthly basis.

Also it would be great to see a Slackware foundation like thing so donations could be sent and distributed to Patrick and other Slackware core members, projects.

-
As for off-topic conversations:-
- considering adding pam and krb5 is welcome other than helping me personally (also big thanks to ivandi for SlackADS) it would probably help Slackware to gain some traction in the corporate world and subsequently getting more sponsors for Pat and Slackware.
- it would be great to see the kde framework becoming part of the next Slackware so that it would be easier to build KDE5, LXQT and Lumina
- a visual overhaul of the Slackware website should also help to generate some attention (it might be simple and all, but even creating a simple bootstrap page would help greatly, i'm no web designer, but if required i would be happy to create a theme on Bootstrap 4 + simple cms on ci3/4 for free)
 
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:46 PM   #137
abga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
Way excessive. I can't tell you much about software DVDs, but from my time in the music industry I can say it would cost less than $1 for each DVD, including art etc. I wouldn't think there's that much of a difference though, it's all 'data' after all.

EDIT: I just verified this with a friend who's way more experienced than I am in the music industry [those are the metrics I'm working with here!]. For about a e.g. 5000 DVD pressing, including artwork, it would be about 80p each [about $1.3]. Then there's shipping, but I can at least report on the pressing cost estimates.
The net revenue just got worse in the last period for artists / original creators and that's why I believe Patrick should run the "business" on its own without intermediaries, in the form of a foundation / company (not well versed myself about the possibilities of incorporation and the tax system in the US), just to protect himself from any forms of abuse. Obviously, printing DVDs is obsolete and T-shirts (&co) are labor intensive, focusing just on donations/contributions might be the only alternative left without impacting the time spent on the actual Slackware project.
Just for reference, have a look what artists earn nowadays with these modern streaming service and per track monetization:
https://informationisbeautiful.net/v...ne-2015-remix/
 
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:54 PM   #138
Ellendhel
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I'm stunned by Pat's message and I will be cancelling my subscription shortly.

If there is any new, improved way to contribute financially to Slackware, you can count me in. I don't have any more idea or advice than what as already been proposed, hopefully something will come out soon.

I have published an article about this on LinuxFr (the most popular French Linux web site) for those who don't visit this forum.

Pat, I hope that your personal situation will improve soon, and thanks again for all the time and energy that you give us for Slackware.
 
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:58 PM   #139
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellendhel View Post
I'm stunned by Pat's message and I will be cancelling my subscription shortly.
I suspect that the store was hit pretty hard yesterday and today with subscription cancellations. The Slackware store informed me that they've cancelled all subscriptions.
I am looking forward to being able to help Mr. Volkerding. I really like Paypal.
 
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:47 PM   #140
q5sys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melke View Post
Hi!

I was waiting for version 2.0 as that is bringing some huge changes. It looks real interesting, hope it comes soon! Keep up the good work!

Kr

Mel
I dont want to hijack this thread, but v2 has been delayed for a little while because Ken and I had to shift our focus from just working on the desktop to spinning up an entire distribution (pm me if you want more details). In about a month or so we should be able to get back to focusing on Lumina.
 
Old 07-25-2018, 01:36 AM   #141
nobodino
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I never comment on slackware's dev team situation but today it's time to do it.

Considering PV's situation, he has first to take care of his family, his wife and his daughter.
My children are more or less the same age (15 and 13), and as a father, he's certainly concerned by the conditions his family lives in.
He's certainly ashamed of this situation: how to sustain the look of his wife/daughter when the roof has a big hole, the broken door with duct tape, the spare tire for weeks...

The case of what will happen to Slackware is secondary.

But what PV wants us to do to help him?

Many of us have made proposals, are they all acceptable from his point of view?
I understand his reluctance to call for help, begging is not acceptable.

Whatever he decides or wants, many and I, are ready to help him, but he has to express what are his needs, and what are his plans for the future, not only "slackware speaking".
He's a very valuable man, but we all live in a world where "being excellent technically" is not suffisant, we have to be able to "sell ourself".
Even if we know he has nothing to prove, technically speaking, it's only in slackware's world.
It's not what will make him and his family leave in good conditions.

PV has to analyze why the slackware business model doesn't work very well anymore.

Why some new distributions works so well with very few developpers like "Linux Mint" (more focussed on newbies) or "Arch Linux" which is rather technical, more or less than slackware.

We can't go on like this by saying:
"we're the best, we don't need to change, those who don't share our point of vue are morons".

If slackware (or PV) wants to live and not only survive, it has to evolve, not necessarily technically, but by communicating more and more, we are in 2018 and not in 1993 anymore!

I work/play with slackware for more than 20 years, and I don't know who's really the dev team, what are the short term goals, the mid term goals and the long term goals?
Who knows slackware in young generations, how do you want to raise the visibility of slackware if you don't share information with this generation?
Slackware must have, not only a BDFL, but a boss like in a company that shares his view of slackware's future.

I'm a hobbyist so the way it's done, I don't care.
But if PV wants to live correctly of his "business", some things have to be done but only him can decide what to do.

He has to have 3 kinds of goals, among other proposals:

> short term goals:
- being able to live honestly of his job on slackware by creating a foundation like "OpenBSD foundation" per exemple to raise money.
- there are certainly some companies using slackware that could pay some fees to help slackware development, but he has to go and fetch that money.

> mid term goals:
- make advertising on what's slackware is good at.
- present the dev team on slackware.com: photos, interviews?
- give interviews in linux reviews (when was the last "linux Journal" interview, there are a lot of reviews who would like to interview PV I think)
- make conferences maybe like "Ted's talk"?
- make conferences in colleges/universities?
- make Youtube videos on how to use slackware: a series of talks could be valuable for the publicity?

> long term goals:
- assure longterm viability of slackware by assuming a new business model.
- PV is technically able to write books on slackware:
- "Slackware for dummies",
- "Slackware for technical use",
- "in depth book on Slackware",

A subscription to help him will only be valuable on short term, one year, two years, not much more?

So let's him talk, we won't decide for him the kind of help he needs on short term, how he will rebound from this "shitty" situation.

Last edited by nobodino; 07-31-2018 at 03:20 AM.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:54 AM   #142
solarfields
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Quote:
he has first to take care of his family, his wife and his daughter
This. And meanwhile we, as a community, try to help with whatever we can.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:01 AM   #143
Sigg3.net
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As a Slackware user, I am shocked and appalled. Please, Pat, let us help you out the way you've helped us out.

My early Linux experience was heavily revolved around Zenwalk (Slackware with 1 app per task philosophy). I did documentation and translations for manuals that mostly originated in Slackware.

I distro hopped for a while, and later went back to Slackware to relive the transparency and integrity of a Slackware system. It has been my main OS at home for 9 years now.

This is only due to Slackware devs. Needless to say I am willing to help out. In my experience, Slackware and Slackware based communities have some of the most helpful and patient members. It's a reflection of the OS we use and love.

Whether PayPal, patreon or BTC, let us know where to send our attention so that it finds you well.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:17 AM   #144
mishehu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodino View Post
I never comment on slackware's dev team situation but today it's time to do it.
Sorry mate, but I think you should have ended your post the line prior to this one. Ultimately PV needs to decide what he wants to do, and neither you nor I nor anybody else here get to tell him what he must or should do. It's his project, and it has value to me as it's the only distro in which I've ever felt at home (and I started off with SLS just prior to going to Slackware way back in the beginning), I hope he has some ideas or is willing to brainstorm with at least select folks that he trusts. I too would like to see the project continue, and as somebody who has contributed to other Open Source projects, I understand the difficulties of being able to pay the bills based off of these contributions.

That being said, I hope he will soon post some instructions on how we can send something to at least help out in the meantime.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:47 AM   #145
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodino View Post
PV has to analyze why the slackware business model doesn't work very well anymore.
What business model is this? Slackware exists to be the most Unix-like distro of all and to give the user the most control over their system. I think that's separate from PV being screwed over by the store. Things were selling very well, by the sounds of it. It's just that he didn't see any of the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodino View Post
Why some new distributions works so well with very few developpers like "Linux Mint" (more focussed on newbies) or "Arch Linux" which is rather technical, more or less than slackware.
I think part of this may be to do with communities. You get a lot of young people into Arch [look at /g/, for instance], also their documentation is first-rate. Slack's is OK, but nothing like Arch. Also, Slack is harder than Arch, as far as I can tell, which would put more people off. Thirdly, the Arch community is a lot bigger, with a more active forum. The Slack official forum is just this board. Also, Slack's 'old school' nature and approach may not be that enticing to young *nixers. But that's fine, it shouldn't change just to be more appealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodino View Post
We can't go on like this by saying:
"we're the best, we don't need to change, those who don't share our point of vue are morons".
I don't think anyone thinks like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodino View Post
He has to have 3 kinds of goals:

- short term goals:
- being able to live honestly of his job on slackware by creating a foundation like "OpenBSD foundation" per exemple to raise money.
- there are certainly some companies using slackware that could pay some fees to help slackware development, but he has to go and fetch that money.

- mid term goals:
- make advertising on what's slackware is good at.
- present the dev team on slackware.com: photos, interviews?
- give interviews in linux reviews (when was the last "linux Journal" interview, there are a lot of reviews who would interview PV I think)
- make conferences maybe like "Ted's talk"?
- make conferences in colleges/universities?
- make Youtube videos on how to use slackware: a series of talks could be valuable for the pubicity?

- long term goals:
- assure longterm viability of slackware by assuming a new business model.
- PV is technically able to write books on slackware:
- "Slackware for dummies",
- "Slackware for technical use",
- "in depth book on Slackware",
It would be good for Pat to do a few talks, but Slackware doesn't progress that much because it's very raison d'etre is remain faithful to the Unix philosophy and aesthetic. Look at the installer, for instance, it's hardly changed since the 90s. I hope PV has considered doing a few interviews for the quarter century, though.

In spite of this, I don't think this thread should turn into "how to change Slackware for the 21st century and change PV's life". Really he just needs to get some money directed to him - which he is due and which he deserves.

Last edited by Lysander666; 07-25-2018 at 07:48 AM.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:52 AM   #146
TheTKS
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I’m angry that my donations haven’t gone to Pat and have gone instead entirely to someone else. I just donated, but consider that lost and will donate that and more once Pat lets us know how to get it to him. Pat and team have produced something that I get a lot of benefit from, and I want to make sure he benefits from that hard work, too.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:59 AM   #147
notKlaatu
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I used to donate monthly via that Paypal link, so I'm sorry to hear that it didn't actually get to its destination.

Like others have said, I don't think the physical media and other swag really matters. I'd like to pay Pat directly for his excellent work.


Pat, if you set up a Patreon, I'd definitely sign up as a monthly supporter. But whatever method you decide upon, I'll absolutely sign up as a donor.

Slackware has powered my career for the past decade, so I'm eager to pay for the service.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:02 AM   #148
kikinovak
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I'm sad to hear these news, Patrick. I've been a subscriber for a few years, I have all the merchandise like t-shirts, baseball cap and bottle opener, and it's a shame to learn that the benefits of these didn't go straight to your pocket. Unfortunately, the chapter about "How to support Slackware" in my print book can't be changed anymore, at least in this edition.

Here's a thought. Raphael Hertzog is a french Debian developer who also wrote the Debian Administrator Guide, which was initially edited by Eyrolles (also my editor). He's the initiator of the Debian-LTS project, and on his site, he has a PayPal link to support his work for the project.

https://raphaelhertzog.com/

If I was you (I'm not, but hey), I'd put up a nice little web page with such a PayPal link. "Send me $ ___ to support my work on Slackware Linux for ____ hour(s)".

And here's a little reading advice for you, Patrick. My hungarian cousin Gabor Wolf is a marketing guru - and also a funny guy - and last year he sent me a reading list intended for small businesses. And this single book is by far the best read on the subject.

Cheers from the sunny South of France & bon courage !

Niki
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:08 AM   #149
nobodino
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When I wrote the paragraph on writing books, I thought of your books Mr Novak which I bought and appreciated. I really think there is place for that kind of technical books written by people knowing what they are talking about : you, PV or E. Hameleers and other dev. I don't know.

Cheers

Last edited by nobodino; 07-25-2018 at 06:11 AM.
 
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:14 AM   #150
martyz
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Hi Patrick, it was you and Slackware, who showed me new universe almost two decades ago. I owe you. Many of us. Time to fix it. It si devastating to read you are in trouble, it has to be changed. Post PayPal or some donation channel, I want to even my debts...
Wish you all the best, take care man!
 
  


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