Do you prefer KDE 4 or 5?

kazzan · 09-28-2017, 03:06 PM

I would like to see Plasma 5 being added to Slackware before the next release.
KDE4 has been discontinued and shipping it gives the impression that Slackware is outdated.

Darth Vader · 09-28-2017, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazzan

I would like to see Plasma 5 being added to Slackware before the next release.
KDE4 has been discontinued and shipping it gives the impression that Slackware is outdated.

Let's look to the big houses: from when the Ubuntu or RHEL ships Plasma 5? Nope? They do not ship it? So, they does not look outdated?

Darth Vader · 09-28-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal

And other people have requirements which require newer mesa versions. Why are your requirements more important than theirs? Why should PHP be updated (or PHP7 added), but not have mesa updated? I'm not saying your suggestions to add things to Slackware shouldn't happen, just that you are very inconsistent in your logic behind it.

I never said that Mesa should not be updated. To be honest, I always lamented that the X.org is always too new to permit to use some particular drivers. You know which ones.

So, I think that I am very consistent on following my own interests: the LAMP stack and the web-browsers. Same to others, some with Mesa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal

So, it's either a very minimal server install, or I need everything? What if someone just wants a database server? Then they may say that the "server" installation contains things they don't need... mail servers, ftp servers, https servers, etc. To them, it would all be bloat. This is exactly have having pre-determined tag files could be problematic. They will be either be too much or too few packages. And it would require extra work from Pat. Instead, if this is something enough people wanted, someone could create a community like SBo to handle tag files. People could answer a series of questions or check boxes of software they need, then it could spit out the tag file they could use. Me? I'll continue to just do a full install. I haven't had a 4GB harddrive since 2001 (which I quickly upgraded to a 20GB one).

Having an option for installing only the mail, dns, ftp, web servers and only them, is already an amazing option, trust me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal

Pat (or Eric) would need to go through all the packages in the l/ series and see if they are tied to KDE or something else. *That* is what I am saying would take extra time.

BUT, it is not already required to do that work?

You guess WHY our BDFL said that he's not willing yet to step on the treadmill of adopting Plasma 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal

And based on your comments in this thread, I imagine you'd much prefer the latter over the former (all KDE and QT deps in a separate series).

You guess right!

montagdude · 09-28-2017, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Vader

Let's look to the big houses: from when the Ubuntu or RHEL ships Plasma 5? Nope? They do not ship it? So, they does not look outdated?

Ubuntu doesn't ship KDE at all (never has, as far as I know). But Kubuntu has shipped Plasma 5 for years.

Darth Vader · 09-28-2017, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montagdude

Ubuntu doesn't ship KDE at all (never has, as far as I know). But Kubuntu has shipped Plasma 5 for years.

Yes, but Kubuntu, last I heard, is not an official spin-off of Ubuntu. It could be considered something like is Salix or Slint for Slackware.

Thinking this way, and taking it literally, to note that Eric already ships a live DVD with Plasma 5, so we have our own, well... Kubuntu.

LuckyCyborg · 09-28-2017, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Vader

I guess you talk (for now) about removing KDE4 and Qt4. So, look what Eric says about this subject: http://bear.alienbase.nl/mirrors/ali...rrent/5/README

Code:

  # removepkg /var/log/packages/*-4.14.3-*
  # removepkg libkscreen
  # removepkg kscreen
  # removepkg kactivities
  # removepkg kde-workspace
  # removepkg libmm-qt
  # removepkg libnm-qt
  # removepkg plasma-nm
  # removepkg polkit-kde-agent-1
  # removepkg polkit-kde-kcmodules-1
  # removepkg kdeconnect-kde
  # removepkg kdepim
  # removepkg kdepimlibs
  # removepkg kdev-python
  # removepkg kdevelop-php
  # removepkg kdevelop-php-docs

That KDE4 removing guide is to make room for Plasma 5, which is incompatible with KDE4, but you can apply it well.

Then, you can take care by kdelibs and Qt and its dependencies.

Sadly, Eric's guide is not for a complete removal of KDE4 and Qt4.

travis82 · 09-28-2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Lally

The ideal for me would be three options: Server (no desktop environments, no multimedia, no games, no DE or X libraries in L); Workstation (choice of DEs, everything except multimedia and games); and Desktop (everything).

Hmm, sounds like Salix installer.

Hey Darth, I am neutral about your request. But, even without kdel in slacwarer installer you can avoid it by using a Salix Core install and adding your favourite stuff from Salix variant of Slackware repository with slapt-get.

montagdude · 09-28-2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazzan

I would like to see Plasma 5 being added to Slackware before the next release.
KDE4 has been discontinued and shipping it gives the impression that Slackware is outdated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Vader

Let's look to the big houses: from when the Ubuntu or RHEL ships Plasma 5? Nope? They do not ship it? So, they does not look outdated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Vader

Yes, but Kubuntu, last I heard, is not an official spin-off of Ubuntu. It could be considered something like is Salix or Slint for Slackware.

Thinking this way, and taking it literally, to note that Eric already ships a live DVD with Plasma 5, so we have our own, well... Kubuntu.

Your question was disingenuous. kazzan said Slackware would seem outdated if it continued to ship KDE 4. By that standard, of course Ubuntu doesn't look outdated, because it doesn't include KDE 4. The fact that it doesn't include Plasma 5 has no bearing on that. Besides, Kubuntu is indeed an official Ubuntu flavor.

https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/flavours

bassmadrigal · 09-28-2017, 03:40 PM

@Darth, we're getting nowhere with this and I've fed you longer than I should've. You consistently ignore many of my statements or take them out of context. I'm stepping out of this thread.

Darth Vader · 09-28-2017, 03:41 PM

@montagdude My bad! Some years years ago they taken the hand from Kubuntu. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/lin...ug-on-kubuntu/

brianL · 09-28-2017, 03:44 PM

I don't know if it still applies, but in the past Debian Stable's KDE was an older release than Slackware's. Wracking my feeble memory, it was something like 4.8 vs 4.10.

Darth Vader · 09-28-2017, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianL

I don't know if it still applies, but in the past Debian Stable's KDE was an older release than Slackware's. Wracking my feeble memory, it was something like 4.8 vs 4.10.

From there: https://wiki.debian.org/KDE

Debian Wheezy contains KDE Platform, Applications and Workspaces (Plasma) 4.8.4 with KDE PIM 4.4.11. <-- production and/or enterprise

Debian Jessie contains the KDE Platform and Applications 4.14.0 and KDE Workspaces (Plasma) 4.11.13. <-- stable

Debian Stretch contains the KDE Frameworks 5.28, Plasma 5.8 and Applications 16.08 (16.04 for PIM components) <-- beta

Debian Unstable contains the KDE Frameworks 5.28, Plasma 5.8 and Applications 16.04/16.08 <-- alpha

PS. the development stage is specified for our fellow Slackwarians not so habituated on Debian realm.

Gerard Lally · 09-28-2017, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montagdude

Your question was disingenuous. kazzan said Slackware would seem outdated if it continued to ship KDE 4.

Yes, but that's also a disingenuous statement. Does Slackware seem outdated because it ships Fvwm? Tcl? Groff? This thread should show you that people have different views about what Slackware should include OOTB with the next release. I prefer Plasma 5, but it still leaves the impression it's unfinished. KDE 4 is the more polished of the two, certain bugs notwithstanding.

montagdude · 09-28-2017, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Lally

Yes, but that's also a disingenuous statement. Does Slackware seem outdated because it ships Fvwm? Tcl? Groff? This thread should show you that people have different views about what Slackware should include OOTB with the next release. I prefer Plasma 5, but it still leaves the impression it's unfinished. KDE 4 is the more polished of the two, certain bugs notwithstanding.

That's why I didn't personally say I agreed with that statement, just that it is what kazzan said and what Darth responded to. Then again, most of the old stuff included with Slackware is old because there isn't a new version. KDE is also much higher profile than those things, thus more attention would be drawn to shipping an old version of it.

brianL · 09-28-2017, 03:57 PM

Yeah, I dual-booted Slackware with Wheezy for a while. Tried Jessie & Stretch in VBox, but I soon get fed up with Debian & its derivatives.