distro sampler
 

What would you guys recommend to someone who wants to try a different distro and has only used Slackware? I tried Kubuntu and I hate it. You can't even log on as root.

I'm trying Debian now but I think it's kind of annoying. The packages are kind of neat but then for some stuff there are no packages because of licensing reasons, like Nvidia drivers, flash, and Java.

I couldn't just run Nvidia's shellscript because everything has to be installed the "Debian" way. So I ended up doing a bunch of apt-get stuff that I don't understand.

And I still can't watch videos on You Tube. Something about the Java or Flash version being wrong or something and you have to do all kinds of crazy stuff that I don't understand to make it work. (On Slackware You Tube worked automatically.)

And then LimeWire, I have no idea how to make it work. I think I'd have to get Java working correctly first. To hell with it, I'm not going to try.

On Slackware all I had to do was download LimeWire and it worked automatically.

I'm not saying Debian is hard, probably it's pretty cool for people that know how to use it. But I always thought Slackware was supposed to be the hardest and as far as I can tell it's the easiest. What the hell. The only thing easier about Debian was that it partitioned my hard drive for me.

So, besides Debian and Kubuntu is there anything else you think I could tolerate?

I wouldn't base the suggestion on just that - I'd want to know about that person's expectations and requirements first.Yes you can - you have to change the root password.

However, you don't need to.

Wrong again - there are many packages available for restricted software. Just not in the main repos.

You can run the nvidia installer, it's just undesirable - you'll have to run it again with each kernel release. Better that you use the packaged driver from the repos.
http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
... sounds convoluted - but that is because the instructions are complete and they want you to understand what you are doing.

You mean <gasp> install the proprietary flash lugin?!

Debian is a Free software distribution - why do you think they gall it GNULinux? The whole point of Debian is that it tries not to use proprietary software by default. The idea is that you are supposed to do without proprietary software unless there is some sort of overriding need.

Do you even know what open source and free software means?

OK then - neither will I.

It looks like you want a distro that is exactly like slackware. How about: slackware?!

There are other P2P clients besides limewire. frostwire for eg?

You know, the whole point of having different distros is that they are ... well... different.
No I don't think there is any other distro you could tolerate. Practically all of them have some sort of not-like-slackware stuff in them requiring that you install plugins, configure drivers, or any of those things you just consign to hell. Sorry, lifes tough.

My faves after Slackware:

Gentoo
FreeBSD
Solaris

Let me preface the following statement thusly, lest I be flamed:
All Linux distributions are essentially equal. They are all just different setups of essentially the same software. People can and should use whatever distro they want, and things they say are good about the distros they like are totally valid and wonderful. Debian, Ubuntu, and even Red Hat and Suse have their purpose and serve it. Plus, in the hands of an experienced user, any distro will do just about anything any other will. On top of all of this, I am overly picky and, indeed, am an idiot not to be listened to.

<REDACTED>

Again, this was just my opinion, offered from one slacker to another. Do not respond to this post to argue about how wrong I am. I already said that I am an idiot, not to be listened to. These are just my thoughts, nothing more. Your distribution is actually better for all of the reasons that you are thinking of right now.

Thanks, foodown. That's what I meant. I always get flamed by know-it-alls with something to prove. I didn't mean to diss Debian. I was just saying I missed being able to go to a Java or Flash website and simply getting a linux shellscript or source and compiling it and having it work. I can't do any of that anymore, I have to learn Debian specific ways to do everything. People want to say, "That's because you don't know how to use Debian!" Well, no shit.

I suppose I could turn that around a bit. All I know how to use well is Slackware.

I haven't seriously installed anything else for other than a quick squiz in a very long time. Slackware has become a sort of standard, nothing else has seemed better for me and anyway I don't have the time to burn learning something else when what I have works just fine thanks.

While waiting for Slackware to release an x86_64 arch I tried some of the others.
That gave me a lot of sympathy for the poor blokes who use them daily.

The package manager distros (almost all the others) are going to give you the type
of results you described. Because someone else is trying to build packages and meet
dependencies for everyone. Well, duh, that's the Windows way ... Debian, SuSE, etc.

Slackware is doing things the UNIX way. You get the source and build it from scratch.
A Linux system should be something you can customize to meet your needs; whether
a server, workstation, embedded, etc. It's a blessing and icing on the cake that guys
like Alien Bob have reliable Slackware packages available; not to mention his toolkit
where you can easily make your own very good SlackBuild script even with no prior
experience or knowledge of bash.

When I first started with Linux in 2003 it was RedHat 9.0. After about a month of me
have less control of my PC than with Windows, I tried Debian. After a few months of
apt-get nightmares, I wanted to try some other wm/de than Window Maker (hobby kit).
However, the Debian democracy bit me. There were devels arguing about different libs,
so for a few weeks KDE was only available in the Woody branch. And that software was
too old. So I looked for a Linux distro where the user could be more in control, and
where one could compile from source without ruining the underlying system, or at least
it's philosophy. My choices: LFS, Gentoo, or Slackware.

Since it's quite needless to compile everything from glibc to cups from scratch, and
seeing how most guys posting the proper answer to help questions were running Slack,
that's what I got.

Even though, as justwantin said, I've checked out something else momentarily, nowadays
it takes very little time to see that once you understand how to configure Slackware,
there's just no distro this simple to maintain and customize; not to mention stable
and fast.

If you really think you're missing something, join FreeNode-#suse and just lurk and
read their problems for a day or so. Or any other distro. You'll soon find, at least
I did in #suse, that the package manager gets in the way of using the system, and
keeps you busy trying to get everything to Just Work (TM).

For me, Slackware is The Linux Distro. Everything else just pales ...

So to answer your OP, try any distro other than Slackware. And use just that one for
a while. As my grandma used to say, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder."

Old Slackers have always told me that once you learn Slack fairly well, you can
never be happy with anything else.

Yeah, I'm trying openSUSE now and it's getting on my nerves. My resolution is awful so I'm trying to install the nvidia driver and I can't just run the shellscript from nvidia. I gotta do it the "SUSE" way. And that uses yast. I followed the directions from nvidia's page but it doesn't work.

I think I'm gonna try gentoo now.

I don't have anything against packages and package managers. I thought pkgtool was great. I just think it should be optional. And if a manufacturer has a shellscript just let me run it.

If I pick automatic install then when I start my computer it boots up straight to the GUI? Why can't I exit X and go back to a command prompt? Or if I can, then why isn't it super easy to figure out? If I hit ctrl-alt-F2 X is still running apparently and I can't run the NVIDIA shellscript. Which I'm not supposed to do anyway, I'm supposed to use yast. Nevermind I'm downloading another OS. apt-get and yast are killing me.

Stick with openSUSE and Debian for at least another month.

Then spend two days getting Gentoo installed, and another
two days trying to configure it to get to that "Slackware
right out of the box" state. Then rice with Gentoo for at
least another month. My favorite quote, and email sig:
Slacker for life here ...

To get Flash working in Debian, simply download the Flash Plugin installer from adobe.com, untar it, then copy the libflashplayer.so file to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins. Then restart Firefox...
... oops, excuse me, I mean Iceweasel.

All you have to do with Debian is add contrib and non-free after main in the entries in sources.list. Plus an entry for debian multimedia:
http://debian-multimedia.org/

You can also copy it to ~/.mozilla/plugins/ no need to mess with /usr
OFC that means it will be available only for 1 user.

I used Suse for some time about three years ago. I remember doing some configuration changes by hand in a slackware-way, just because it was more convenient to me.
No offense, but I find it hard to believe that:
I mean, I can't believe that with SuSe (or any other "user-friendly" distro), if you download NVIDIA shell installer (or any other shell installer) and run it, you can't install the driver (or any other program).
Maybe installer recognizes Suse and that's why refuses to install? But then, in this case one could open *.run file with an editor and delete the lines checking for Suse.
In general, I think on every distro any generic binary package can be installed (sometimes some tweaking is required (changing of paths etc), of course). But if you do (or like to do) this regularly, it's best to go back to Slackware.

Hi,

I remember when I could get under the hood with any car to make a repair. Try that today. Hold may hand has moved as a virus throughout technology. :(

Slackware is stable, configurable and fun. I can tweak to the level that I desire too. If I break it then recovery is achievable. :) With others, good luck.

Computer send reply! !!! damn it! #!Sorry Send it

Reading is believing, eh?

And btw ... I don't know how SuSE was when you ran it 3 years
ago, but openSUSE-11.2-x86_64 is not user friendly.

Right. Now I recall, when I downloaded NVIDIA drivers from their site, there was a "note for Suse users". OK, Suse & NVIDIA driver seems to be a special case. But I guess that NVIDIA shell installer would work on Mandriva, Ubuntu, Debian etc and that was my point.

May be. I always call SuSe/Ubuntu/etc-like distros "user-friendly" , i.e. in double quotes because I do not think they really are.

He he ... I'm with you. Guess it depends on -> define: user

Arch Linux. Or FreeBSD.
I think after Slackware they are the most appropriate to try.

I don't even want to talk about it :).
Seriously, until today I did not manage to configure DSL in Debian via GUI. I get lost. I configure it via pppoeconf (or pppoesetup, always forget the name of the binary) and adding pppoe-start in rc.local, or how it is called in Debian.
Besides, calling Firefox Iceweasel? No, thank you.

At home the only other distro I use is FreeBSD, it is worth a look. However, my main OS is Slackware.

Heh... If you think that was 'fun' try adjusting the AGP rate setting with any distro 'installer' or package manager...
With Slackware it's just a matter of following Nvidia's README:
Not saying it's impossible, but.. how would one do this on Debian, *buntus, OpenSUSE, or even Gentoo or Arch? Simpler than on Slackware? Maybe not... Anyways, to each their own.
My point is that in Slackware is easy to follow the manufacturer's stock way.

What do you mean, "hold may hand has moved as a virus throughout technology?" :eek:

FreeBSD? Seriously? Does most stuff even work on that? I thought it was just for servers. I mean it's not even Linux. They make their own kernel, don't they? Does X and KDE and gcc and all the GNU stuff run on it? If I wrote a "hello world" program on Linux and compiled it, would the executable run on FreeBSD or would I have to compile a FreeBSD version?

And if the Linux binary ran on FreeBSD then how come it won't run on Windows? Windows isn't Linux but neither is FreeBSD.

And I think I heard some people straight up run Unix. So Unix runs on x86 PC's now?

If it does then why is Linux so popular? Why didn't FreeBSD or Unix catch on? Is Unix still closed source? Does somebody own it?

Well, I was serious. :) Seriously, KDE works, and sound works, and power management and CPU scaling. :) Most stuff works. The program compiled on linux will run if you have installed package called smth like "linux runtime".
I can't tell you much, I wiped FreeBSD after a few weeks. I think I found that linux had no support for writing on FreeBSD filesystem (UFS (?))? Or other way around. Since I wanted to keep linux on another partition and to store data on the 3rd partition (not FAT- or ntfs-formatted), I got angry.

I think some applications are not available for FreeBSD (or only older versions). E.g. CrossOver Linux exists for many years, but only recently its beta version for FreeBSD appeared.
But you should definitely give FreeBSD a try. (I think you need a primary partition to install it).

You do need a primary partition for Free BSD and if you try it as a dual boot lilo stanzas for ide a sata respectively could be:

I've looked atPC-BSD a desktop version of Free BSD. Don't know anything about the buntu's but it is something I would very much consider putting on a granny PC where once I installed and set up I could walk away and not be worried about it breaking or falling over. Very professionally packaged including the installer AFAIAC. I installed it last year and early this year to have a quick look but wasn't interested in it personally and never spent more than a night or two fiddling with it. It's BSD for using as an everyday PC if I remember right the KDE-4 was working without any problems The current (7.1.1) version sports KDE-4.2.4. There,s the usual host of desktop aps available AFAIC but I didn't find much info readily available concerning dvb drivers.

X runs just fine on FreeBSD. I'm currently running FreeBSD 7.2-amd64 in a dual boot with Slackware 12.2. FreeBSD 7.2 ships with KDE 4.2.2 which is acceptable. I'm looking forward to KDE 4.2.4 in Slackware64! :cool:
You can compile stuff just fine in FreeBSD using the ports directory and the commands : make install clean
You can also install binary packages with the command: pkg_add
FreeBSD runs just fine on x86 machines as well as 64 bit machines. Here's my dual boot set-up using lilo. My home partition for Slackware is mounted on sda3.

If you have enjoyed Slackware, then FreeBSD might be a good next choice. I like FreeBSD. Solaris (or OpenSolaris) would also be a good one.

I make these recommendations because they would give you the opportunity to experience a UNIX that is actually, genuinely different from Linux. With other distros, you are running something almost identical to what you are used to, but different only in annoying ways intended to remove the need for the user to delve into Linux system internals. Or, even worse, as is the case with Debian, working around the sanctimonious sense of the developers that they are the defenders of computing truth and justice and therefore know what is "right" or "desirable" for you on your own system.

You can detect this in the first reply that you got:
Undesirable to whom? The Linux police? Isn't it your computer?
If your hardware manufacturer provides drivers for their own hardware on your OS for free which are superior to the open ones, which is the case here, why would you not use them? Unless you were suspicious of the drivers doing something malevolent, the only reason would be something irrational . . . like an idealistic political crusade, for example.
The only people who care about calling it that are FSF devotees. The truth is, Linux distributions include software from LOTS of different sources. Stallman and the FSF have certainly made multiple grand contributions, but that doesn't mean that the OS is GNU as they like to say. The OS is an undefinable amalgam . . . You could call it "Purple Polka-Dotted Fire Walker" . . . who cares? They're just bitter because their own internal politicking sidelined their Hurd kernel for so long that now the possibility of there ever being an all-GNU OS with any kind of sizable user base is quite remote.
You see, it is a political crusade. Slackware only includes open-source software in its base distribution as well . . . It just doesn't get all haughty about it.

By the way, you can bend any distro to your will. The NVidia installer, for example, I believe, just doesn't like running while an X server is up. Just su to root in an xterm and issue an 'init 3' or 'init 1' (which will, on most distros, dump X and go to regular ol' single or multi-user mode) and then run the installer from the good ol' console.

I just tried fedora. I think I like it better than Debian and openSuse. But there's no xorg.conf. wtf? (As root I tried "find / -name xorg.conf" It simply didn't exist.)

So then I ran nVidia's shellscript and let it create an xorg.conf and now my computer beeps all the time for no reason. Usually when I'm hitting shift to type a capital letter. Also my numpad quit working.

Also there's sound when KDE starts and quits so it must know about my soundcard. But I can't listen to mp3's on Amarok or anything else.

Maybe if I let it download the two hours of updates it says I need? I don't know. I just downloaded the freaking dvd iso and installed. How out of date can my system be?

I'm sure these are all fine OS's once you learn how to use them. It just seems so backwards to me, from a newbie standpoint. Slackware was supposedly the least user friendly but it's not. It's the easiest. I mean I could attack each problem one at a time. If I had 640x480 resolution, no problem. Get nVidia's shellscript and learn about xorg.conf and get it to work. It's not gonna fuck up your keyboard in the process.

I know people can say I have these problems because I don't know what I'm doing and yeah I could figure it out with some research. But if apt-get and yast and the complete absence of xorg.conf on fedora are supposed are supposed to make things more user friendly, why do I end up having to do more reading and learning than I did with Slackware? User friendly my ass.

Fedora 11 runs the latest xorg which does not require an xorg.conf file. However, when installing NVIDIA's driver, it will create an xorg.conf. Slackware-Current does not have a xorg.conf by default either.

Also, Fedora 11 uses pulseaudio as the main audio manager. In my experience, pulseaudio has been a major pain. It causes an extra spike in cpu usage and it makes some multimedia and game apps play choppy sound. PA (PulseAudio) has come a long way, but in my opinion, it has ways to go.

In thing you will quickly learn with Fedora is to be ready for very large updates. Some in the order of 100 to 200 MB worth of updates a week, if not higher if you don't run yum update frequently. It is the price to pay to test the latest and greatest.

No more xorg.conf?

So how is X going to know about my mouse and monitor and video card from now on? Is it all going to magically work or is there another file we have to mess with now?

I haven't research the new xorg enough, but I believe it figures out your hardware on the fly. You can still create an xorg.conf though to fine tune your settings.

I dont know if this will work but if the problems started after the xorg.conf was created try commenting out the section for your keyboard as the Nvidia installer probably got it wrong. Also to get out of X i use ctrl alt backspace then you would be able to run the nvidia installer.

I use Slackware my self and just like it when i was first trying linux it was the first one that i could get to run everything i wanted without to much messing around o i agree it is very user friendly compared with others.

sav

FreeBSD has been used for a lot of Apple's new Mac OS X operating system. Mac OS X Leopard is a registered UNIX product, conformant to the Single UNIX Specification standards. UNIX 03. They use the Mach microkernel and a lot of FreeBSD in it.
FreeBSD is under a few licenses, one of which is the GPL.
I don't know about the details of the compatibility of programs, exactly, but yeah, they work together ... I think you need to configure a bit, or something. I have a FreeBSD CD sitting here, but I haven't installed it.
Solaris is the same as Mac OS X Leopard as far as standards conformance, Single UNIX Specification, UNIX 03.
Part of the Single UNIX Specification is POSIX.

Hi,

Relative to technology most things are not as transparent as they used to be. Things like idiot lights instead of gauges, lower cost for a lamp/LED than a active meter movement. As related to an OS, 'GUI' has been used to sadly make things easier for the user. SO, when you don't have the visible means to see what the author is attempting to do on your system then things do happen in the wrong way.

I personally don't need someone attempting a task that is easily done via a 'cli'. Tweaking a system via a 'GUI' will likely get your system to level that may/will become unusable.

We are depending on technology to do a lot of things that a human did in the past. Sure, use hardware that will keep everyone out of harms way. But even that has it's caveat, the UAV is insulating people from harms way. What's going to keep us from just annihilating ourselves because our descendants don't see the harm or the result of the technology.

My grandson couldn't wait to show me his aircraft(S) in a game last night. Sure the it's just a game but to me it seems a conditioning of our children. Not really understanding the resultant of their actions when using weaponry.

I could continue with examples but I hope you get my meaning. The debs, RH or whatever are attempting to be so M$ that the user(s) are having the same nightmares. I'm not fishing for flames but when you let someone else do any kind of work for you then you are dependent on their skills.

I understand what you mean ... I just didn't understand the "hold may hand", what was meant ... I didn't understand as much until you explained it more, but I was just confused still by the wording. :(

Hi,

What you see is what you get!

I come from academia and tend to get a little wordy. But I do try to be intrinsic and utilize wording that can be easily miss-understood but if you reference then the definitions will clarify.

Never mind, I understand now. "Hold my hand" has moved as a virus throughout technology. I don't know why I overlooked this.
I agree, but at least you have the choice of not having your hand held. :)

;) "hold may hand" might be easier understood as "hold my hand"

I guess what really bugs me is all the other distros boot up straight to gdm or kdm or something like that and you have to figure out how to exit X. I hate that. I liked having it boot up to the prompt and then having to figure out how to start X.

I think windows these days is inseparable from the GUI but that's windows. This is Linux. I don't want to have to figure out ctrl-alt-backspace to exit X I just want to pick exit. I don't like having to remove gdm when I run Debian. And I don't even know how to fix openSuse. I don't know what that booted to.

I hope Slackware never starts booting straight to a GUI out of the box. Sometimes I just want to play Nethack.

You should try GRML

Debian based and made for the console with alot of cool, and beutiful wm's too

and when you exit, it goes back to the Black

doesn't autostartx unless you want to

get the Full version

http://grml.org/

I use some Debian systems at the school where I work. You don't *need* to have gdm installed with Debian if you don't want it. Debian doesn't need to have gnome as the default. You can use the net install iso to install Debian and then don't choose desktop when tasksel runs, just choose a standard system. Then when your new Debian system boots up you'll be greated with a shell prompt. Later on if you want gnome and x windows you can easily install it at a root shell prompt with:

# aptitude install xorg gnome

Similarly if you want kde then:

# aptitude install xorg kde

Does everybody like the new KDE? I'm not sure if I hate it or if I just need to get used to it. Maybe I'll try fluxbox.

I don't mind the new KDE at all, other than it's awkward for me, but I'm not used to it, either. Fluxbox, I like ... I just use GNOME because I'm used to it and it's easy and it looks good.

Fluxbox huh

There'a a GRML remaster taht uses fluxbox too
http://hag-linux.eu.org/

it's current too
I apt-get'd flash, and some other apps too

and the fluxbox menu etc is nice and tricked out