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Old 07-27-2012, 08:21 PM   #106
mRgOBLIN
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Less is more. 'nuff said =)
 
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:24 AM   #107
Laxman_prodigy
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Dependencies are neither good nor bad! A software depends on another to function and thats the way it is. A package manager is a good idea if there is a massive repository to manage, but hey, what if you wanted a new software than that in the repository and say to have a program with some new features or something, then I don't believe it is a piece of cake under those ADR distributions! Its a PITA!

Under Slackware?! Its a breeze! Yeah, we do get lazy sometimes to track dependencies while deleting a program but you can always keep logs of software installed with their dependencies! How clean and neat is that?!

IMHO, I have left every other distribution out there in the market for Slackware for the simplicity and neat design it offers! Can't ask for more!

My two cents.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 01:08 AM   #108
damgar
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Maybe at some point there should just be a DR sticky in the forum?

On a serious note, if the OP (or any other "thinking about Slackware, but I heard ____" reader of this thread) still hasn't, why not either install vbox and just have a go at Slackware, or just dual boot? I think for most Slackers DR and configuration start as intriguing horror stories so/but we try it out, and for a short period they are intimidating or cumbersome, then they become non issues, then they become defining positive features.

For me I was sold in 2 weeks. Samba was the final straw after point-n-clicking my way to total failure for a week with two other distros, and trying to hand edit a machine generated smb.conf to maybe get it working.... When I realized I only needed to edit 7-8 lines in a file, and type two commands, Slackware suddenly made PERFECT sense. DR is like that. How much time do you spend installing software? You do it once, and since with Slackware, the package manager isn't going to break your system, you move on, you aren't missing anything, and with a sort-of-yearly release cycle it is very infrequent anyway.

DR, hand editing config files, init scripts, basic installer.... Slackware just doesn't do flashy, and my best guess as to why is because flashy just gets in the way and keeps the user mystified. There is a learning curve to Slackware, but it levels quickly because after the basics are figured out, then the OS is just transparent and out of your way so you can focus on whatever it is you are wanting to do. My experience is that it's easier to know very little and get things working quickly and reliably using Slackware than any other OS I've ever used, and it's BECAUSE of all these "old fashioned" "by hand" features, not IN SPITE of them.

I think Pat and Eric, et al are starting from a very unique assumption: that the user is intelligent and capable of making their own right decisions. At least for me, that's how I define Slackware.
 
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:02 AM   #109
ttk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
I am very thankful for the countless hours that Pat and the Team puts in to my OS.
That is the clincher for me. As a software engineer and sometimes system administrator, I am acutely aware of how much time and energy it takes to do all the things that makes Slackware possible.

Every hour spent on some task is an hour not spent on something else, so you have to identify what is most important, and put your limited supply of hours there.

Time spent developing and maintaining DR would mean the same amount of time not spent debugging and resolving interactions between system components, with buggier releases as the inevitable consequence. Slackware's robustness is the #1 reason it is my distribution of choice (and my use of Ubuntu at work only reinforces the depth of my conviction).

Mentioning this would be relevant, and hammers home some related points:
http://ciar.org/ttk/personal/engineering.html
 
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:53 AM   #110
rayandrews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
The Slackware developers team has safely entered the 21st century and still is of the opinion that a package manager should not do any dependency checking. You lose more by DR than you gain. Believe me. Try Ubuntu for a few months, and then report back here. Honest advice, not meant to be arrogant.

Eric
As for me, I consider that to be the last word, at least until I've actually tried Slackware (again). Oh, forgot to mention, it was the first distro I tried, but like so many other refugees from Windows/DOS, I found getting it to work rather like doing brain surgery blindfolded--I'll have much better luck now that I have some idea what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm quite receptive to the idea that DR really isn't a good idea. Fact is, that tho I might play Devil's Advocate here, my bias really is in favor of the most direct way of doing things--all my vehicles are standard shift. I ride an '82 BMW and don't want anything 'better' thanks.

OTOH, from what I know of the history of Linux, it seems that Slackware's absolute dominance of the distro market has been eclipsed for more or less one reason and that is that (say) RedHat offered 'better' dependency resolution, ditto Debian and the rest. Now, given the disasters that these automagical PMs sometimes create, it might be the case that the Slackers are right, and that the whole thing is more trouble than it's worth. Still, one can dream of something better.


Quote:
brianL
If you find so many faults with Slackware, why are you using it? Is someone holding a gun to your head?
Not to be rude to brianL, but this is the one kind of comment that achieves nothing. People use Slackware because they like it, but that does not imply that it couldn't be better. The idea is worth discussing, as all these posts attest. Sheesh, all I wanted/expected here was a couple of posts giving me some feedback on the current wisdom on the subject ;-) But I see that the subject is still very much a hot topic.

Last edited by rayandrews; 07-28-2012 at 11:09 AM.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 11:19 AM   #111
rayandrews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chess View Post
This thread should be closed.
Holy God, yes, I've created a monster. I see two more pages of posts. I'm almost sorry I asked folks. Let me try Slackware again, and then I'll answer my own question ;-) And I'll try Salix too, and see if they really have created a PM worthy of Slackware, or if it's just another Debian.

What I can say for sure is that this is by far the most active and engaged community I've come across, that says something, doesn't it?

Thanks all.

Over and out.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 12:17 PM   #112
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayandrews View Post
Let me try Slackware again, and then I'll answer my own question ;-)
I hope you enjoy Slackware again. Have fun.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 01:57 PM   #113
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayandrews View Post
Not to be rude to brianL
That's OK, you can be rude to me, I'm very thick-skinned, and date from a long time BPC (Before Political Correctness).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayandrews View Post
People use Slackware because they like it, but that does not imply that it couldn't be better.
I should think you would have realised by now that most Slackers like it the way it is, and would not regard the changes you've suggested as an improvement.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #114
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...another vote to make this (or any one of the perennial DR threads) a sticky.

Brian
 
Old 07-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #115
damgar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCarey View Post
...another vote to make this (or any one of the perennial DR threads) a sticky.

Brian
This one had Pat saying that no DR is a defining feature, it's probably as good a candidate as any.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 06:16 PM   #116
rayandrews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
That's OK, you can be rude to me, I'm very thick-skinned, and date from a long time BPC (Before Political Correctness).

I should think you would have realised by now that most Slackers like it the way it is, and would not regard the changes you've suggested as an improvement.
I have indeed realized it after a dozen posts on this thread. It was the reasoning behind the Slack attitude that I was after, which reasoning has been quite well presented. But since so many people seemed interested in persuing the topic, who am I to try to stop them? Also 'suggested' is too strong a word, I merely probe for responses to ideas.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 07:45 PM   #117
damgar
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LOL, you have to understand that DR in Slackware is a topic that all Slackers in this forum have a response we can copy paste from the last thread. I think at present there are two current DR threads. It's probably the most popular thread topic in this forum behind "when will the next release be?". The copy paste answer to that one is "WHEN IT'S READY!"

LMAO. Happy Slacking
 
Old 07-29-2012, 05:21 AM   #118
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
LOL, you have to understand that DR in Slackware is a topic that all Slackers in this forum have a response we can copy paste from the last thread.
Indeed, I've had the question asked of me so often from friends and colleagues that I wrote a dedicated blog post about Slackware packaging and dependencies to point people to.
 
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:19 AM   #119
rayandrews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
LOL, you have to understand that DR in Slackware is a topic that all Slackers in this forum have a response we can copy paste from the last thread. I think at present there are two current DR threads. It's probably the most popular thread topic in this forum behind "when will the next release be?". The copy paste answer to that one is "WHEN IT'S READY!"

LMAO. Happy Slacking
Well nuts. I Googled around for some preexisting gab on the subject but didn't come up with much, even here at LinuxQuestions. I hate to flog a tired subject. Anyway, like sex, people always seem ready to go at it again ;-)
 
Old 07-29-2012, 10:41 AM   #120
rayandrews
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Originally Posted by ruario View Post
Indeed, I've had the question asked of me so often from friends and colleagues that I wrote a dedicated blog post about Slackware packaging and dependencies to point people to.
Enlightenment.

Thank you, Sensei.
 
  


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