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Old 07-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #91
volkerdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth View Post
Here's the real stumbling block, but dragging them kicking and screaming into the 21st century seems a lost cause.
If we're so clueless, and Slackware is so obsolete, by all means drag yourself kicking and screaming into some other OS. This gets tiresome. My opinion (if it counts) is that lack of automatic dependency "handling" is _the_ defining feature of Slackware. Many people hate automatic DR. How many other options are there for a full featured Linux distribution that doesn't cram that concept down your throat? And making it "optional" is not an option. It would be a gigantic time sink, and unless we included every possible package and got total cooperation from everyone it would likely function considerably worse than it does elsewhere. The example of the KDE video app where some of the packages are in Slackware and some aren't... we should package dependency chains for everything?

We don't play their brand of basketball. Deal with it.
 
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #92
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth View Post
Actually, I would say that an intelligent and robust package manager with DR would raise Slackware above any of the efforts currently available from Red Hat, Ubuntu, debian et al and it would also mean the maintainers at SBo and Slackbuilds would have to raise their game to a higher standard, so it would be up to them to deliver the goods to the standard required.
So why would they have to make the effort for something that you want, but they don't? And why is Salix, Slackware with DR, not the #1 distro?

Quote:
I have neither the skills, nor the time to learn them.
Programming is something that anyone can learn. If you are able to draw flow charts and process diagrams the actual implementation should not be that hard.

Quote:
Here's the real stumbling block, but dragging them kicking and screaming into the 21st century seems a lost cause.
I can't see what DR has to do with being in the 21st century. Do you mean that we have to give up the total control of our systems and the simplicity of Slackware's package management (against the KISS principle) to be considered modern? Then I can say wholeheartedly that I do not regret to the "backwards" step from Debian's 21st century to Slackware's 20th century and that I want to stay it that way.

Quote:
What can I say. To easy to be lazy and uninterested in change for the greater good.
I can't see the numbers of the SlackBuilds that you maintain and I can't see the greater good. There are people that have decided to maintain build scripts in their free time to make it easier for everyone to install software on Slackware. Now you call them lazy because they don't want to make the extra effort for things that they neither need nor want?

Quote:
Even a full install leaves things out. Don't forget, the full install is what Patrick thinks people might want, not necessarily what they will want.
The full install is the way Slackware is designed to work. The things that are left out is additional software that you can install, but don't have to. If you want to not make a full install then don't do it, but don't complain about things that are missing by design.

The more I read your posts the less I get why you actually are using Slackware.
 
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #93
honeybadger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Only 85 posts in this thread so far, mine included... Too bad, I guess that some slackers are on vacation :sigh:
No this is way too boring for them. They are busy testing Slackware 14.
 
Old 07-27-2012, 01:48 PM   #94
honeybadger
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+1 for volkerdi.
Did not read his post befor posting. This is what happens when a post becomes a rant than an actual intelligent discussion.

By all means keep ranting if you feel like it - sometimes it is intresting (comparing s/w to cars ?!!?)
 
Old 07-27-2012, 01:55 PM   #95
chess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth View Post
snip incredibly insulting post
This thread should be closed.
 
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:00 PM   #96
dugan
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I'm confused as to why vdemuth wants Slackware to turn into Salix when Salix already exists.
 
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:14 PM   #97
vdemuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi View Post
If we're so clueless, and Slackware is so obsolete, by all means drag yourself kicking and screaming into some other OS. This gets tiresome. My opinion (if it counts) is that lack of automatic dependency "handling" is _the_ defining feature of Slackware. Many people hate automatic DR. How many other options are there for a full featured Linux distribution that doesn't cram that concept down your throat? And making it "optional" is not an option. It would be a gigantic time sink, and unless we included every possible package and got total cooperation from everyone it would likely function considerably worse than it does elsewhere. The example of the KDE video app where some of the packages are in Slackware and some aren't... we should package dependency chains for everything?

We don't play their brand of basketball. Deal with it.
Never once have I said you were clueless. In fact I think Slackware is one of the better OSes about. I just think it could be so much more.

But perhaps you are a little set in your ways.

I am certain someone as clever as you could manage quite successfully, if you were so inclined, to introduce a DR system for Slackware, whilst still remaining true to the roots that you are obviously so fond of (and for good reason I might add) and in doing so show some other distributions just how it should be done.



Quote:
brianL

"Help! I've been abducted by aliens. They've probed my orifices, and now they're making me run Slackware!!!"
Very intelligent.

Just trying to get an interesting conversation going here. You may not like some of my comments, but the exchange of ideas is part of what defines us.
 
Old 07-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #98
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth View Post
Very intelligent.
Thanks
 
Old 07-27-2012, 02:19 PM   #99
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Only 85 posts in this thread so far, mine included... Too bad, I guess that some slackers are on vacation :sigh:
Well, I have been lurking and reading along, so let me add one more voice...

Slackware's package management system is T-H-E FEATURE that places it far above any competition!

I was a long time user of another distro which I found I had to leave due to changes they adopted. I set about to find another home for myself and associates.

After much effort and the most careful evaluation of Linux distros that I had ever done, I embraced Slackware. Probably the best "technology" decision I have ever made!

Among others, there were two stand-out reasons that put Slackware ahead of the pack - by miles:

1. The TOTALLY AWESOME Slackware package management system.
2. The use of BSD-style init scripts.

Slackware's package management system is unbeatable - there is no close second place among distros!

As for the vile slander that Slackware is somehow behind the times because of this stand-out feature - I cannot express my actual reaction to that in this forum... the sources of such effluvium are at the very least disingenuous, or perhaps lacking is some degree of intelligence.

Slackware is probably the ONLY current distro with a comprehensive vision, guided by a true visionary, lamp in hand!

If such vision is outdated, and if other distro's package managers are the measure of having come into the 21st century, then we are indeed entering a new dark age!

Finally, the outrageous defamatory accusation that intelligent avoidance of other distro's style of dependency checking is somehow due to laziness on the part of Slackware packagers and maintainers... I take offence on behalf of them all!

It is your OWN slothfulness that leads you to whine so incessantly and annoyingly about dependency resolution and absence of pointy-clicky binary installers! If you would make use of the intelligence granted you by the Creator, or Bob, and the package management system par-excellence granted by the Slackware maintainers, your world, and ours, would be a better place.

Last edited by astrogeek; 07-27-2012 at 02:24 PM.
 
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:44 PM   #100
schmatzler
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In short: I also do not want any kind of dependency resolution. I have some experience in Debian, Ubuntu and other big distributions with that kind of "feature". As long as you stick to official sources, it may work perfectly (sadly, I also experienced the opposite). But in the other case you get a lot of trouble. Things like "Version 0.2.9-1 needed, but 0.2.9-2 found" drive me really mad.

For example: I have my 3rd party Banshee repository. The packages there work fine, but they need GConf to work. No problem, it's included in Slackware. What if the GConf version gets pushed? Banshee should work fine regardless of that (tested it with the latest -current updates). But if I have set a version dependency for my Banshee packages, the problems begin.

Anyone who manages to install Slackware and configure it to start up X should be able to resolve dependencies manually. If this experience is missing, a bit of learning is needed or one of the big OSes for beginners should be used.

Last edited by schmatzler; 07-27-2012 at 02:48 PM.
 
Old 07-27-2012, 03:02 PM   #101
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth View Post
I am certain someone as clever as you could manage quite successfully, if you were so inclined, to introduce a DR system for Slackware...
But Mr Volkerding is *not* so inclined, as he stated clearly enough.

Sometimes we ask for something and can't get it, that's life
 
Old 07-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #102
brianL
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DR? Don't want it. Don't need it. Enough said. Case closed. Move on.
 
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:49 PM   #103
R3V0LV3R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chess View Post
This thread should be closed.
Ah, c'mon.

If anything, revisiting this forum to follow this thread has made me consider paying Slackware another visit. The new release is just over the horizon, so it seems at least, and maybe most of the build scripts I had trouble with have caught up to the current GCC version.

But you're right about one thing. Once the founder & chief architect personally posts saying "it ain't gonna happen," you're just pissing in the wind at that point.

Or pissing on an electric fence.... ouch.
 
Old 07-27-2012, 07:40 PM   #104
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth View Post
In fact I think Slackware is one of the better OSes about. I just think it could be so much more.
I've used dependency resolving package managers in a variety of operating systems. They are convenient and nice *when they work*
You are entitled to your perception, but, Slackware does not need to be *more*
Slackware is perfectly functional as it is. I am very thankful for the countless hours that Pat and the Team puts in to my OS.
 
Old 07-27-2012, 08:17 PM   #105
BrZ
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Please, keep Slackware as it is.
 
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